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Whats your thoughts. So fed up with all these stupid VAR decisions on offside, isit an armpit, toenail. Surely the benefit should go to the attacker as we go to see goals. The defenders always try to play offside or squeeze the play up but they should always bear in mind the postion of the attacker. The defender should always try to be goalside. If by good movement the attacker gains a half man advantage all the good. If however there is clear air between the two he would be offside. I was a defender but we go to see goals so surely the advantage should go with the attacker. These VAR decisions are ruining our game.

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Offside is offside even if its a toenail difference. However my problem with VAR is that how does the technology know the exact moment the ball was played. 

 

And if VAR is being used only for clear and obvious errors then what defines clear and obvious. In the case of offside would any decision where a toenail is offside be defined as clear and obvious. 

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16 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Was it stupid when it ruled out Son scoring against us or gave us Iheanacho's winner? 

 

You were quiet then. 

 

How about the countless Salah and Kane goals that were given before VAR when they were blatantly five yards offside but no ref would rule out their goals at home? 

I don’t think it’s VAR that’s the problem, it’s the rules now need adapting to help.

Offside should be on foot position, then it’s clear when they draw these lines. If a player got fouled outside the box but his arm was inside the zone, it isn’t a penalty. 
The FA just need to make the rules fit the technology in my opinion.

Edited by Strokes
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1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I don’t think it’s VAR that’s the problem, it’s the rules now need adapting to help.

Offside should be on foot position, then it’s clear when they draw these lines. If a player got fouled outside the box but his arm was inside the zone, it isn’t a penalty. 
The FA just need to make the rules fit the technology in my opinion.

Don't think that'd help tbh, people would still say it's just a 'toenail' and there always has to be a point where, in theory, the difference between onside and offside is a mm. And the collective whinge is more often than not that it should be let go because its only very marginally offside. The rules and VAR need to evolve to improve no doubt but I'm not sure these kind of tweaks will really work. There's no quick solution, you either bin it or you give it lots of time until people just accept this is the way it is now. 

 

The media and social media revel in castugating something. It used to be the refs, now its VAR. Literally the reason we have this is because football coverage has for a long time now expended so much energy on criticising refs and drawing lines to show offsides whilst managers and fans have used them as scapegoats for their clubs failings. 

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31 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Was it stupid when it ruled out Son scoring against us or gave us Iheanacho's winner? 

 

You were quiet then. 

 

How about the countless Salah and Kane goals that were given before VAR when they were blatantly five yards offside but no ref would rule out their goals at home? 

Many people said it was ridiculous. 

 

No one has a problem with howlers being overturned, spending two minutes guessing though with commodore 64 lines on a camera 50 yards though on a armpit? No. Just don't.

Edited by MattP
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2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t think it’s VAR that’s the problem, it’s the rules now need adapting to help.

Offside should be on foot position, then it’s clear when they draw these lines. If a player got fouled outside the box but his arm was inside the zone, it isn’t a penalty. 
The FA just need to make the rules fit the technology in my opinion.

100% this.

 

The laws are to stop a team getting an unfair advantage. What's the advantage in having a thumb in front of a defender's elbow? So stupid.

 

Also an attacking player going forward will be leaning forward and defender caught out will be leaning the opposite way, but their source if motion, their feet will be level.

 

Lastly, the point the ball is actually passed seems to be the point it loses contact with the foot, which brings in so many physical equations the passer has little 'precise' control of - at least to the degree these decisions are being scrutinised. The point the ball is "passed" might as easily be the moment a player starts his back swing, which is surely the first clear sign of the player's intention.

 

In all other decisions the rule I keep hearing is, "clear and obvious error". I can't believe that a matter of millimetres is clear and obvious error, so in these marginal decisions, I'd be more than happy for the original decision to stand.

 

At the moment it's just a mess. For the same of seasonal consistency, it has to continue, but this summer, please, please, please review this!

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34 minutes ago, Phube said:

The one question that matters:

 

Has anyone in the Prem this season scored an offside goal?

 

No. Case closed!

 

Few more questions:

 

Has a recent cup final north of the border been decided by an offside goal?

 

Yes. Case closed!

 

Can it be improved by a change in the laws to help aid attackers to score more goals?

 

Yes. By making it the go from the foot, eliminating body lean. But it will always be marginal in some games.

 

Another question, and for me the most important. Has VAR offsides been consistently applied all season?

 

Yes, from match one, Sterling was offside by an armpit. We cry out for consistency, now we have it people want more.

 

I honestly only care that games are refereed consistently and fairly. In the case of offside and goal line technology it has been so. You can argue frame rates and armpits all you want it has been consistently applied. This is my frustration with VAR and handball/fouls so inconsistent and frustrating.

 

26 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t think it’s VAR that’s the problem, it’s the rules now need adapting to help.

Offside should be on foot position, then it’s clear when they draw these lines. If a player got fouled outside the box but his arm was inside the zone, it isn’t a penalty. 
The FA just need to make the rules fit the technology in my opinion.

Happy to have the rules refined and the technology improved as long as they can be consistently applied and that means fractional offsides will happen.

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12 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

 

In all other decisions the rule I keep hearing is, "clear and obvious error". I can't believe that a matter of millimetres is clear and obvious error, so in these marginal decisions, I'd be more than happy for the original decision to stand.

Clear and obvious error has been the most inconsistently applied aspect of VAR. 

 

Are you happy with goal line technology giving or not giving a goal by a matter of millimetres? 

 

I know the big difference is the speed at which goal line technology works and there are fewer variables, but nobody is arguing that there should be a grey area for goal line technology. Offside is offside whether it is a millimetre or a mile. 

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Lucky to know someone who helped implement VAR. 

 

Said person works for FIFA, he said FIFA are furious with the Premier League because they arent using it properly. 

 

I have to agree, it's not being used correctly. The PL have every camera angle available to them in the Ground however they dont use all of them... currently. 

 

Fifa have asked the PL to let the refs talk to the Stadium, guess what. They've denied it too. 

 

You only have to look at other Leagues and see how well it's worked. Shame it hasnt for us.. yet. 

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50 minutes ago, Phube said:

Has anyone in the Prem this season scored an offside goal?

Another question might be, "have any good goals been ruled offsides by VAR? I think the answer is yes.

 

But, I do agree with you that the way to fix this is by changing the law to favor attackers. Daylight between the attacker and defender, something like that.

 

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the phrase ‘CLEAR AND OBVIOUS’ is irrelevant to an offside decision. It’s a matter of fact. The issue is that the law was never intended to be down to mm measurement - it was a visual judgement by a linesman.......... so as many have alluded over the past few months, have a hatched area a couple inches goal side of the defenders back point  .....that gives a small enough margin for error ....if you’re then a toe or a nose offside then that’s a toe or a nose plus a couple inches and you can’t moan about the technology or the spirit or the law being applied ......

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1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

the phrase ‘CLEAR AND OBVIOUS’ is irrelevant to an offside decision. It’s a matter of fact. The issue is that the law was never intended to be down to mm measurement - it was a visual judgement by a linesman.......... so as many have alluded over the past few months, have a hatched area a couple inches goal side of the defenders back point  .....that gives a small enough margin for error ....if you’re then a toe or a nose offside then that’s a toe or a nose plus a couple inches and you can’t moan about the technology or the spirit or the law being applied ......

Yep.

 

From the PL website. 

 

Factual decisions such as whether a player is onside or offside, or inside or outside the penalty area, will not be subject to the clear and obvious test.

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59 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Was it stupid when it ruled out Son scoring against us or gave us Iheanacho's winner? 

 

You were quiet then. 

 

How about the countless Salah and Kane goals that were given before VAR when they were blatantly five yards offside but no ref would rule out their goals at home? 

With all due respect, the implementation of the offside rule by VAR has been generally “stupid” regardless whoever ox is gored.

 

Technology is great but should be the helper rather than the boss (in a manner of speaking). Personally, I think the EPL should reinstate the rule that grants the benefit of the doubt to attacking players or that requires daylight between the attacking player and last defender to be ruled as offsides. This silliness of using a sharpie to decide whose big toe edges it borders on the farcical. 

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Did anybody watching the Spurs game notice that VAR lines appeared to show Pukki onside and later a still image of it was shown with the lines reversed? 
 

Later, Sky said that the VAR official ruled it offside as Pukki was returning from an offside position. It made absolutely no sense and to me looked like they did everything they could to prevent Spurs from going 2-0 down. 

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Make it so they can only use var in the penalty box, for offsides and everything else. Most of these var offside decisions are offsides in the build up where defences are playing a high line. The emphasis should be on attacking and scoring goals, not defenders playing Galway up the pitch thereby reducing the chances of goals, which is what we go to watch football for

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54 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Don't think that'd help tbh, people would still say it's just a 'toenail' and there always has to be a point where, in theory, the difference between onside and offside is a mm. And the collective whinge is more often than not that it should be let go because its only very marginally offside. The rules and VAR need to evolve to improve no doubt but I'm not sure these kind of tweaks will really work. There's no quick solution, you either bin it or you give it lots of time until people just accept this is the way it is now. 

 

The media and social media revel in castugating something. It used to be the refs, now its VAR. Literally the reason we have this is because football coverage has for a long time now expended so much energy on criticising refs and drawing lines to show offsides whilst managers and fans have used them as scapegoats for their clubs failings. 

I completely agree with the last paragraph.

I guess I was talking about the more (often unheard) rational football fan. Not your twitter twerps, radio phone inners or match thread wankers.
I just find it frustrating that the technology basically is good but we are not helping it. As @Trav Le Bleu said, feet positions and body position of defenders and attackers are always likely to be different, due to the direction of play.

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38 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Clear and obvious error has been the most inconsistently applied aspect of VAR. 

 

Are you happy with goal line technology giving or not giving a goal by a matter of millimetres? 

 

I know the big difference is the speed at which goal line technology works and there are fewer variables, but nobody is arguing that there should be a grey area for goal line technology. Offside is offside whether it is a millimetre or a mile. 

But the goal line is a defined measurement that is unmoving and constant.

 

What I'm saying is it should be a defined point of the body and I think feet is the obvious choice. It is, after all "football". Technically, as it stands, a player might be ruled offside simply because he's fatter. I'm using hyperbole to make a point, but it still stands.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, lcfcsnow said:

There needs to be some maximum distance allowed, that the computer can easily work out. We're giving offsides that are down to millimeters and its ridiculous. Give it that setting and the computer can green light it or not, job done in 10 seconds.

That's ridiculous. You're just suggesting a random maximum distance.

 

As long as the technology is accurate enough (I've seen comments about curvature of camera lenses etc which can't be simply dismissed) then offside is offside, even if it's a millimetre. It can't be simpler. 

 

With respect to comments about body parts being offside, then yes, let's have clarity on that - if there isn't already, I've not checked on the actual rules (let's not call them laws, it's just a game). But if you're off then you're off!

 

 

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