Corona Virus

[Desabafar]

On 31/03/2020 at 13:49, Xen said:

That sounds suspiciously like something that the Anti-Vaxxer movement would claim... In other words, pay it no mind. 

no its a real thing, it is why the zika vaccine failed, its a real problem with dengue and it has been observed to varying degrees with hiv, feline coronavirus and sars

[Costock_Fox]

6 hours ago, Desabafar said:

you personally would have of course done it all better

So do you think he is wrong? Remember that the Premier League would have gone ahead for another week had Arteta not Bering diagnosed with it because the government hadn’t given them a clear steer.

 

Liverpool V Atletico wouldn’t have gone ahead had they been quicker to react as well.

 

You only had to read the reports coming out of Italy to know that we made the same mistakes that they did re social distancing measures being slow. 

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

So do you think he is wrong? Remember that the Premier League would have gone ahead for another week had Arteta not Bering diagnosed with it because the government hadn’t given them a clear steer.

 

Liverpool V Atletico wouldn’t have gone ahead had they been quicker to react as well.

 

You only had to read the reports coming out of Italy to know that we made the same mistakes that they did re social distancing measures being slow. 

Personally I do not think @Toddybad was wrong, but that it falls foul of exactly what the government did in being reactionary.

(Anyway, is it a fact that the league was suspended due to Arteta, or is this conjecture made fact?)

IMO, critique at this point in time is not especially valid and rings of griping, as we need to see "how we did" in comparison to other approaches post COVID.

Yes, democracy, yes free speech, yes open forum, works both ways though.

 

[StanSP]

20 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Personally I do not think @Toddybad was wrong, but that it falls foul of exactly what the government did in being reactionary.

(Anyway, is it a fact that the league was suspended due to Arteta, or is this conjecture made fact?)

IMO, critique at this point in time is not especially valid and rings of griping, as we need to see "how we did" in comparison to other approaches post COVID.

Yes, democracy, yes free speech, yes open forum, works both ways though.

 

He wasn't claiming he could have done better though? Just pointing out some things that have occurred in the past month or so... 

[Leeds Fox]

23 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Personally I do not think @Toddybad was wrong, but that it falls foul of exactly what the government did in being reactionary.

(Anyway, is it a fact that the league was suspended due to Arteta, or is this conjecture made fact?)

IMO, critique at this point in time is not especially valid and rings of griping, as we need to see "how we did" in comparison to other approaches post COVID.

Yes, democracy, yes free speech, yes open forum, works both ways though.

 

We have to remember that we had a great opportunity to look at what had happened elsewhere and use this to make our decision. 

[Carl the Llama]

25 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Personally I do not think @Toddybad was wrong, but that it falls foul of exactly what the government did in being reactionary.

(Anyway, is it a fact that the league was suspended due to Arteta, or is this conjecture made fact?)

IMO, critique at this point in time is not especially valid and rings of griping, as we need to see "how we did" in comparison to other approaches post COVID.

Yes, democracy, yes free speech, yes open forum, works both ways though.

 

Toddy probably could have done better tbf, it wouldn't have been hard to see what was happening and apply social restrictions earlier and with more enthusiasm, lots of us were asking for exactly that.  Take Cheltenham, it should never have gone ahead, it was well after the point at which society's benefit of the doubt should have run dry.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

He wasn't claiming he could have done better though? Just pointing out some things that have occurred in the past month or so... 

 You need to read it again me thinks

[StanSP]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

 You need to read it again me thinks

He mentioned things that were done bad and gave his opinion as such. 

Then the other guy said 'you personally would have done it all better' 

I'm not sure that was the point Toddy was making or trying to put across. Saying something bad has happened doesn't equate to being able to do a better job yourself. 

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

We have to remember that we had a great opportunity to look at what had happened elsewhere and use this to make our decision. 

As I stated, I do not think he was necessarily wrong, I just feel it is too early to judge truly effectively.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

He mentioned things that were done bad and gave his opinion as such. 

Then the other guy said 'you personally would have done it all better' 

I'm not sure that was the point Toddy was making or trying to put across. Saying something bad has happened doesn't equate to being able to do a better job yourself. 

So you think

 

Quote

And we refused to participate in EU procurement, even though there are bigger than us and so ahead in international queues. 

Does not equate to a recommendation to the contrary of the government's actions?

If you do think so, then I will defer to the seemingly larger consensus 

(Whilst of course maintaining my own wayward thoughts)

[Leeds Fox]

11 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

As I stated, I do not think he was necessarily wrong, I just feel it is too early to judge truly effectively.

I didn’t mean to imply anything about your opinion mate. I‘m of the same view. Until it’s over, unless they make some huge mistakes from here on in, don’t think griping while have any benefit at all. 

[Strokes]

50 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

So do you think he is wrong? Remember that the Premier League would have gone ahead for another week had Arteta not Bering diagnosed with it because the government hadn’t given them a clear steer.

 

Liverpool V Atletico wouldn’t have gone ahead had they been quicker to react as well.

 

You only had to read the reports coming out of Italy to know that we made the same mistakes that they did re social distancing measures being slow. 

I think it was intentionally slow, think, the more you flatten the curve the longer this goes on for. The government has to manage the economy too.

[Costock_Fox]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think it was intentionally slow, think, the more you flatten the curve the longer this goes on for. The government has to manage the economy too.

I get the managing the economy bit completely, my household income has halved over this but the original plan was brought about due to ‘herd immunity’ and then days later they realised hundreds of thousands would die to had to back track.

[nnfox]

45 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

So do you think he is wrong? Remember that the Premier League would have gone ahead for another week had Arteta not Bering diagnosed with it because the government hadn’t given them a clear steer.

 

Liverpool V Atletico wouldn’t have gone ahead had they been quicker to react as well.

 

You only had to read the reports coming out of Italy to know that we made the same mistakes that they did re social distancing measures being slow. 

The government made a valid point early on though, backed by behavioural scientists, stating that if you impose restrictions too early, people would get bored quickly and then start ignoring it.  What's happening now? Indications are that the number of people venturing out are rising, just over a week into "lockdown".  This is when the numbers are relatively high.  I doubt people would have complied for even a full week when the numbers were low.

 

And I will reiterate a point I made a couple of weeks ago, in that there is more at stake than the physical health of the nation.  The economy needs addressing too.  Maintaining law and order is another consideration.  The UK is such a complex machine, you can't just switch it off, it just isn't that easy.

 

This is a dynamic situation and the government are assisted by world leading experts in their field who have far more data at their disposal than us ordinary folk. 

 

It's a live operation, venturing into uncharted territory for us as a nation.  I have faith that the government are doing the best they can with the resources they have available.  Will they make mistakes? Yes, of course.  Nobody will get this perfect but we just have to a abide by their guidance and focus on doing what we can.

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, nnfox said:

The government made a valid point early on though, backed by behavioural scientists, stating that if you impose restrictions too early, people would get bored quickly and then start ignoring it.  What's happening now? Indications are that the number of people venturing out are rising, just over a week into "lockdown".  This is when the numbers are relatively high.  I doubt people would have complied for even a full week when the numbers were low.

 

And I will reiterate a point I made a couple of weeks ago, in that there is more at stake than the physical health of the nation.  The economy needs addressing too.  Maintaining law and order is another consideration.  The UK is such a complex machine, you can't just switch it off, it just isn't that easy.

 

This is a dynamic situation and the government are assisted by world leading experts in their field who have far more data at their disposal than us ordinary folk. 

 

It's a live operation, venturing into uncharted territory for us as a nation.  I have faith that the government are doing the best they can with the resources they have available.  Will they make mistakes? Yes, of course.  Nobody will get this perfect but we just have to a abide by their guidance and focus on doing what we can.

 

Add to this intention to learn lessons from our neighbours, whilst also accepting that each local system (country) in Europe is subtly different in terms of behaviours, makes this a nightmare where anything other than dynamism is doomed.

[SpacedX]

12 hours ago, EastAnglianFox said:

All out down our street tonight for the clap for NHS,

'Clap' and the 'NHS' conjures up very bad memories of my late teens and early twenties. 

[Guest Markyblue]

8 hours ago, Toddybad said:

Turns out the first UK death was in February.

Remember that our first case was in January and our first cobra meeting not until march.

And then we allowed football matches and Cheltenham.

And we refused to participate in EU procurement, even though there are bigger than us and so ahead in international queues. 

So, so many ridiculous errors.

Herd immunity against WHO advice for God sake. 

We've handled this appallingly badly.

And PPE shortages and the wrong PPE being available is just shameful.

I'll stop there.

Once you mentioned the eu i stopped reading,  pot and kettle come to mind ask the Spanish and Italians.

[Costock_Fox]

9 minutes ago, nnfox said:

The government made a valid point early on though, backed by behavioural scientists, stating that if you impose restrictions too early, people would get bored quickly and then start ignoring it.  What's happening now? Indications are that the number of people venturing out are rising, just over a week into "lockdown".  This is when the numbers are relatively high.  I doubt people would have complied for even a full week when the numbers were low.

 

And I will reiterate a point I made a couple of weeks ago, in that there is more at stake than the physical health of the nation.  The economy needs addressing too.  Maintaining law and order is another consideration.  The UK is such a complex machine, you can't just switch it off, it just isn't that easy.

 

This is a dynamic situation and the government are assisted by world leading experts in their field who have far more data at their disposal than us ordinary folk. 

 

It's a live operation, venturing into uncharted territory for us as a nation.  I have faith that the government are doing the best they can with the resources they have available.  Will they make mistakes? Yes, of course.  Nobody will get this perfect but we just have to a abide by their guidance and focus on doing what we can.

 

I have faith and your last paragraph sums it up, they will make mistakes which I fully understand and that’s my point.

[Finnaldo]

19 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think it was intentionally slow, think, the more you flatten the curve the longer this goes on for. The government has to manage the economy too.

I can understand the stance of keeping normal life ticking over and keeping the spread ticking over, but allowing major sporting events like Cheltenham and a Champions League game take place seems a step too far, it’s so many people in a confined area there’s no way that it can be counted as manageable spread, it might as well be a petri dish at that point. 

 

 

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I get the managing the economy bit completely, my household income has halved over this but the original plan was brought about due to ‘herd immunity’ and then days later they realised hundreds of thousands would die to had to back track.

My income has completely stopped.
I really don’t think that’s entirely true. It was about intervening at certain points in the curve. They might have underestimated it and they are clearly underprepared for it but so has almost every country. 
Sweden are still not on lockdown.

[Finnaldo]

6 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Once you mentioned the eu i stopped reading,  pot and kettle come to mind ask the Spanish and Italians.

EU’s assistance of Spain & Italy has been piss poor but that has nothing to do with the ventilator programme?
 

 

[Guest Markyblue]

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I can understand the stance of keeping normal life ticking over and keeping the spread ticking over, but allowing major sporting events like Cheltenham and a Champions League game take place seems a step too far, it’s so many people in a confined area there’s no way that it can be counted as manageable spread, it might as well be a petri dish at that point. 

 

 

I agree Cheltenham should have been cancelled,  but with many thousands of Irish people attending is there any data coming out of Ireland to say there was a lot of infections spread.  Genuine question. 

[Guest Markyblue]

1 minute ago, Finnaldo said:

EU’s assistance of Spain & Italy has been piss poor but that has nothing to do with the ventilator programme?
 

 

Has everyone in Europe got enough ventilators then?

[Costock_Fox]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

My income has completely stopped.
I really don’t think that’s entirely true. It was about intervening at certain points in the curve. They might have underestimated it and they are clearly underprepared for it but so has almost every country. 
Sweden are still not on lockdown.

Sweden looks like a disaster to be fair.

[Finnaldo]

3 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

I agree Cheltenham should have been cancelled,  but with many thousands of Irish people attending is there any data coming out of Ireland to say there was a lot of infections spread.  Genuine question. 

4,000 infections and 90ish deaths in a population of nigh on 5 million, not far behind Scotland in that respect. 
 

4 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Has everyone in Europe got enough ventilators then?

 

So you don’t understand what this programme is? The idea that as a bloc they can purchase enough higher amounts o ventilators for cheaper than individual nations can making it easier for all involved to access what they need.That’s the plan.