Corona Virus

[Dahnsouff]

32 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Ah, 1st world problems 

 there are other types?? 

 

May I also give you one of these please 

[l444ry]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0KoyxshYdiQrL9SS00eTA8mi_6PIRpcwq-qEbdVeZTe7Cpjp8lBfuX4BQ

 

Edited 3 April 2020 by l444ry

[Parafox]

19 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

 there are other types?? 

 

May I also give you one of these please 

Thank you. Genuinely appreciated. 

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, l444ry said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/matt-hancock-government-policy-herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0KoyxshYdiQrL9SS00eTA8mi_6PIRpcwq-qEbdVeZTe7Cpjp8lBfuX4BQ

 

So if that’s right, your still wrong. If what they are still doing is considered “herd immunity” that means they never altered from the plan or did a u turn. It’s also the same plan from most other nations.

[l444ry]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

So if that’s right, your still wrong. If what they are still doing is considered “herd immunity” that means they never altered from the plan or did a u turn. It’s also the same plan from most other nations.

I put this up as a point of interest. I'm not disputing anything with anyone as only an idiot would contest that herd immunity wasn't government policy. 

Edited 3 April 2020 by l444ry

[yorkie1999]

45 minutes ago, reynard said:

China is far from the only country responsible for many of the ills of the world. And it was ever thus. Our own country's history is not exactly rosy and most of us who live in it enjoy a high standard of living based on the back of slavery and exploitation and destruction of other countries through empire and it took a long time for us to change for the better.

I'm afraid anyone who thinks we won't need China or should "punish" China for what has happened is living in cloud cuckoo land. When this is all over the economy of the world is going to be in tatters. China is likely to be an even bigger influence in the world than it was before. Right now we need them as an economic lifeline. Anyone involved in the export business is likely to see China as just about the only place any commerce can take place right now.

Your last point is absolutely spot on. For a start pressure needs applying to close down these live animal markets, thought to be the source of more thanone infection. But only global co-operation will have any chance of effecting change in the country.

The only way that can happen is through sanctions which contradicts us needing china. Anyway, it's not the rest of the world, Trump will ensure China pays for this and see this as an excuse to turn the world against China, once he's got all his PPE off them. 

Edited 3 April 2020 by yorkie1999

[StanSP]

45 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

do we have an average age of death or and over 85 percentage or something to relate to?

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, l444ry said:

I put this up as a point of interest. I'm not disputing anything with anyone as only an idiot would contest that herd immunity was government policy. 

In the absence of a vaccine or 100% lockdown until a vaccine is available, it’s the only broad hope we have of a return to some kind of normality ..........

 

as long as the NHS can cope with the demand on it, I guess we will relax the rules over a period of time ....... if that looks like changing then we change the rules back ...........

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

So if that’s right, your still wrong. If what they are still doing is considered “herd immunity” that means they never altered from the plan or did a u turn. It’s also the same plan from most other nations.

Yes, but they needed to re-phrase it whilst allowing it to happen and when all's said and done, unless we all plan to live indoors for 12 months and hope they discover a cure or a vaccine, a majority of the nation needs to contract the virus.

[FoxesDeb]

33 minutes ago, l444ry said:

I put this up as a point of interest. I'm not disputing anything with anyone as only an idiot would contest that herd immunity was government policy. 

And there's been plenty of them here over the last few weeks 

[murphy]

42 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

The only way that can happen is through sanctions which contradicts us needing china. Anyway, it's not the rest of the world, Trumpwill ensure China pays for this and see this as an excuse to turn the world against China, once he's got all his PPE off them. 

I don't think a confrontational approach with China is wise.  What if they were sanctioned into becoming a pariah state and at great cost to the west?  They would form stronger alliances with genuine pariah states like Iran and N.Korea, maybe Russia and become the superpower of the bad guys.  No we need co operation with Beijing but things have got to change in China.

[st albans fox]

25 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't think a confrontational approach with China is wise.  What if they were sanctioned into becoming a pariah state and at great cost to the west?  They would form stronger alliances with genuine pariah states like Iran and N.Korea, maybe Russia and become the superpower of the bad guys.  No we need co operation with Beijing but things have got to change in China.

Good luck with that ......

[simFox]

28 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't think a confrontational approach with China is wise.  What if they were sanctioned into becoming a pariah state and at great cost to the west?  They would form stronger alliances with genuine pariah states like Iran and N.Korea, maybe Russia and become the superpower of the bad guys.  No we need co operation with Beijing but things have got to change in China.

Regime change maybe. It's stuff like this that brings down governments, much like the Berlin wall after Chernobyl. It's the Chinese people that can really do something.

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, simFox said:

Regime change maybe. It's stuff like this that brings down governments, much like the Berlin wall after Chernobyl. It's the Chinese people that can really do something.

You haven't been to China then ?

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, simFox said:

Regime change maybe. It's stuff like this that brings down governments, much like the Berlin wall after Chernobyl. It's the Chinese people that can really do something.

Why would they though. They've seen their country become the worlds major economic super power, if that were me i'd be thinking, we must be doing something right so let's carry on eating snakes and pangolins, which by all accounts, they still are.

[brucey]

 

 

[murphy]

15 minutes ago, brucey said:

 

 

That's great but the fact that they're lining the corridor with a guard of honour kind of suggests this is very much a rarity, as if, when you go into icu you're not likely to come out again?  

[brucey]

24 minutes ago, murphy said:

That's great but the fact that they're lining the corridor with a guard of honour kind of suggests this is very much a rarity, as if, when you go into icu you're not likely to come out again?  

It depends a lot on the age and underlying health conditions, but it’s about 10-50% survival for those put on ventilators...

 

It’s just a nice thing to do for the patient I guess, like how patients get to ring a celebratory bell on the ward when they finish chemo.

 

Edited 3 April 2020 by brucey

[joachim1965]

What would be really interesting is knowing what proportion of people who die with "no underlying health conditions" are smokers.

[Lionator]

33 minutes ago, murphy said:

That's great but the fact that they're lining the corridor with a guard of honour kind of suggests this is very much a rarity, as if, when you go into icu you're not likely to come out again?  

Given that most people in ICU will be there for 7-21 days dependent on the outcome, this guy will have probably been one of the first people in there, so maybe he's the first out of there.

[Lionator]

https://riskytalk.libsyn.com/coronavirus-understanding-the-numbers

 

This is a great anxiety-soothing podcast by a (Cambridge) statistician on numbers related to COVID-19.

Edited 3 April 2020 by Lionator

[Guest Fktf]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

In the absence of a vaccine or 100% lockdown until a vaccine is available, it’s the only broad hope we have of a return to some kind of normality ..........

 

as long as the NHS can cope with the demand on it, I guess we will relax the rules over a period of time ....... if that looks like changing then we change the rules back ...........

Vaccines are not the only hope. We might find an existing drug that is a decent treatment, vastly improving survival rates in those admitted to hospital.

 

Whoever had the herd immunity idea pushed for it too soon. We should have bought time to get the NHS ready, assess possible treatments, get antigen and antibody tests ready. The outcome is still to go for herd immunity in the end, but you're in a position to manage it much better 

[pazzerfox]

On 02/04/2020 at 09:17, RumbleFox said:

I understand what you are saying and I have watched the video in full but I just can't get behind it.  I am not usually a fan of ad hominem arguments but David Icke genuinely believes in Lizard people, is a climate change denier and he's been craving something like this for a long time.  As I said, that doesn't mean he is wrong in the coronavirus case but his history of beliefs should certainly be taken into account when listening to him speak about a subject.  He has also shifted his terminology of the "elite" and now calls it the 1%.  Like religion, his words and descriptors tend to shift with advances made by other people then he fits the present to look like his predictions.  The problem with "arguing the opposite of the mainstream" is the same problem as creationists "teaching the controversy" of the Big Bang in schools.  By arguing that they should teach kids about creationism because it just offers an "alternate viewpoint from that of the mainstream" they are giving both ideas equal standing where in fact one has 0% basis in any scientific fact.  Not all controversies or "alternatives" hold equal weight or should be given your equal time.

 

Also his talk of the virus not being as serious as some claim is dangerous and irresponsible and could put people at risk of death.  I would rather listen to a doctor than a former goalkeeper and someone who claimed he was the son of God on the matter of a virus.  This is anecdotal of course but my partner's best friend's father died of corona two days ago (he was in his 60s and fairly fit) and people like Icke are putting people at risk by telling people not to believe the experts.  He knows nothing, he talks around issues and makes himself sound smarter than he is.  Sorry it drives me mad even listening to him.

 

Studies have shown people who believe conspiracy theories tend to have certain traits....... "These people tend to be more suspicious, untrusting, eccentric, needing to feel special, with a tendency to regard the world as an inherently dangerous place," ........... "They are also more likely to detect meaningful patterns where they might not exist. People who are reluctant to believe in conspiracy theories tend to have the opposite qualities." and Icke fits every one.

 

I hate the mainstream media, I think they are responsible for many of the ills in our society and they clearly do look to shape the national consciousness and lead us to think in certain ways and we should always be wary of what they tell us and read as much as we can from numerous sources.  I spend more time listening to conspiracy theorists and religious fundamentalists (I am an atheist) than I do people I agree with because I think it is important to listen to views I do not personally hold.  However I believe the danger is that many conspiracists suddenly lump in experts and scientists with "the mainstream" and start believing the world is flat or so on and I genuinely believe the current climate where experts and scientists are not believed because some guy on YouTube shouts louder than them and "knows the real truth" is dangerous.

 

Look at the anti-vaxxers, people have died because of their conspiracy bullshit.  Every scientist in the world bar about 3 states vaccines are vital yet some nobber misconstrues and misuses a half study and suddenly vaccines are evil, viruses we have not seen in 50 years reappear and children die.

 

Anyway, I should change my name to Ramblefox sorry.  Everyone should listen to conspiracies and everyone has the right to believe in them but they must understand that people will challenge them and that simply saying "you're a fool to believe the mainstream" is not a valid argument in response.  I need to go outside more, I'm a dullard in general but this current lockdown is making me even worse.  Sorry everyone.  Sorry mum.  X

 

I enjoyed reading your post. 

 

I suppose it boils down to how you want to see the world (positively or negatively).  Whilst some of what David Icke says i find intriguing, he does come across bitter and that life has done him wrong and owes him a massive favour.  His latest theory claims that vaccinations will be compulsory and that we will all be injected with nano technology, which are microchips beyond what the human eye can see, which interact with 5G and satellites to manipulate humans.  Convenient with the roll out of 5G expected to be this/next year some might say.

 

There are some many conflicting stories out there, it's difficult to find the real truth that's for sure!

 

Feel free to "Ramble" some more, your posts are interesting.

 

 

 

[murphy]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Good luck with that ......

Well it's kind of based on the assumption that Beijing recognises the need for change after this and that they might feel a touch contrite?  Probably is wishful thinking.

[murphy]

21 minutes ago, pazzerfox said:

I enjoyed reading your post. 

 

I suppose it boils down to how you want to see the world (positively or negatively).  Whilst some of what David Icke says i find intriguing, he does come across bitter and that life has done him wrong and owes him a massive favour.  His latest theory claims that vaccinations will be compulsory and that we will all be injected with nano technology, which are microchips beyond what the human eye can see, which interact with 5G and satellites to manipulate humans.  Convenient with the roll out of 5G expected to be this/next year some might say.

 

There are some many conflicting stories out there, it's difficult to find the real truth that's for sure!

 

Feel free to "Ramble" some more, your posts are interesting.

 

 

 

Release the Rumble.  Down with posting limits!