Corona Virus

[Costock_Fox]

7 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

At least somebody was prepared for all this.

 

 

Credit where credit is deuce.

[Costock_Fox]

20 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Papers reckon a 3 week extension to the lockdown. 

That’s the absolute minimum but they will say it’s 3 weeks and to be reviewed nearer the time. It’s my birthday mid May and I can’t see it being relaxed for that.

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

That’s the absolute minimum but they will say it’s 3 weeks and to be reviewed nearer the time. It’s my birthday mid May and I can’t see it being relaxed for that.

I’m sure your birthday is v important but I doubt they’ll take it into consideration ...............

[Mike Oxlong]

4 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

That’s the absolute minimum but they will say it’s 3 weeks and to be reviewed nearer the time. It’s my birthday mid May and I can’t see it being relaxed for that.

Please make sure that @The whole world smiles knows the date of your special day 👍

[MattFox]

Idea the Lockdown is going to be lifted and everything will reopen again immediately is nonsense anyway.

 

Will be months before we see any sort of normality I’d imagine.

 

Half the boozers and shops that shut will probably never reopen again anyway. Going to be a completely different world on the other side of this.

 

 

[Costock_Fox]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I’m sure your birthday is v important but I doubt they’ll take it into consideration ...............

JeReMy CoRbYn WoUlD HaVe.

[Costock_Fox]

8 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Please make sure that @The whole world smiles knows the date of your special day 👍

He needs to send me better beer than the shit he’s posted out before that’s all I’ll say .

[Blue ROI]

53 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Papers reckon a 3 week extension to the lockdown. 

In Ireland we have given the Gardai (Police force) power to go after anyone who is found breaking a 2km limit. 

 

Its brought in just before the Easter Weekend. On top of that the next Bank Holiday is 3 weeks after so it's all but certain that restrictions won't be relaxed. There is too big a risk for people to go to the beach and pubs. Also there a lot of fun runs,marathons normally planned that weekend so not gonna do anything for at least 4 weeks I reckon.

 

As regards our situation we recorded 35 deaths yesterday and 26 today, the 2 highest daily figures so far. Its not as bad as some other countries but still a terrible situation. A lot of places closed up over 4 weeks ago and a minor lockdown has been in place for the last fortnight so you would hope that things take a turn for the better over the next 10 days.

 

As I said we might ease off after May Bank Holiday but the UK will likely have a longer wait.

Edited 8 April 2020 by Blue ROI

[swanlee]

3 hours ago, brucey said:

Maybe we should be putting out guidance to the public to tell them how to use masks and gloves properly, if people are going to be using them anyway. Even if only to reduce transmission from the asymptomatic infected. America has started recommending that everyone wears masks in public, so clearly the effectiveness (or lack thereof) is still a matter of debate.

It's when everyone is wearing them that there's some evidence that the mask may limit the spread of germs.

 

I read years ago that this is why they are so popular in Asia. They are not worn to protect the individual but out of consideration for others. If someone is feeling a little poorly they will don the mask to prevent themselves potentially contaminating others.

 

The author was using the wearing of masks as an example to highlight the differences in culture between east & west. Based on the teaching of Confucius, Asian countries are more communal with more focus and consideration on the well-being of the community. Whereas in the west, our philosophical outlook tends to be more libertarian & subsequently individualistic.

[Guest Fktf]

11 minutes ago, swanlee said:

It's when everyone is wearing them that there's some evidence that the mask may limit the spread of germs.

 

I read years ago that this is why they are so popular in Asia. They are not worn to protect the individual but out of consideration for others. If someone is feeling a little poorly they will don the mask to prevent themselves potentially contaminating others.

 

The author was using the wearing of masks as an example to highlight the differences in culture between east & west. Based on the teaching of Confucius, Asian countries are more communal with more focus and consideration on the well-being of the community. Whereas in the west, our philosophical outlook tends to be more libertarian & subsequently individualistic.

There's a much more blunt way masks help. If you've got the virus on your hands from a something like a door handle, and you have a mask over your mouth and nose, at least you're not going to get infected by touching your face. 

[The whole world smiles]

50 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

At least somebody was prepared for all this.

 

 

I thought they were quick to cancel it!

[Guest Fktf]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Is the population going to be ok handing over their personal and GPS data to the government in order to track cases?

 

1 hour ago, foxile5 said:

I really don't like the idea of giving them any more data than they already have. 

This data is already being logged. The govt may not have access to it freely, but a simple law change 'for these unprecedented times' and you won't have a say. 

 

For what it is worth, if the law change is time limited then this use of tech can really help us. We can relax restrictions and isolate new cases to control spread, rather than just keeping on with a blanket lockdown for all.

Edited 8 April 2020 by Fktf

[Foxin_Mad]

Quite honestly the can track me doing whatever. If it means this bollocks can end.

[swanlee]

1 hour ago, Fktf said:

There's a much more blunt way masks help. If you've got the virus on your hands from a something like a door handle, and you have a mask over your mouth and nose, at least you're not going to get infected by touching your face. 

Fair point ..... but you could, in my understanding, still become infected for example by rubbing your eye. And if you touch the mask with your hand, then the virus could still be very much on the mask and then transmitted back to the hand, or another surface, upon removal?

 

@Parafox makes the point further back in this thread, and as this particular individual seems to work in the NHS , I'm happy to align with their viewpoint. Far more knowledgeable in these subjects than I. To quote....

 

'they are utterly useless after an hour or so and are no more protective than no mask unless you are infected and then they will help prevent the release of a virus if you cough, sneeze or breathe close to another person.'

 

My post was a continuation of this argument. And I was in general agreement with Parafox. While I understand why people wear them, the masks annoy me a little too. I guessing a vast percentage of people who are wearing them, believe them to be a form of protection?

 

In my experience people are being extremely respectful and the advice we are being given about self-distancing is generally being well observed. If you are that worried about catching this thing, then stay at home, wash your hands regularly, try not to touch your face and don't make unnecessary journeys. And obviously if you do begin to show symptoms, then self-isolate.

 

A small number of individuals out & about with scraggly bits of dirty cloth dangling over their noses & mouths is not the panacea to this thing.

Edited 9 April 2020 by swanlee

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

I'm seeing a lot of stories about school teachers (mainly science or Design Tech subjects) making a lot of equipment used for nurses and hospitals and surgeries etc. Visors, masks, general protection equipment to help out. Even kids using 3d printers to help nurses with masks so they don't get those sores or irritation behind their ears for example. 

 

Don't get me wrong it's good they're able to do this and donate it to various people/trusts/hospitals. But how has it come to this? Why are professionals not getting the right equipment in the first place? What's gone wrong in the system that this can't be provided from their work place and why do they have to rely on the goodwill of local people in their community? 

Because, in normal circumstances, the country doesn’t need 100’s of thousands pieces of equipment. The problem has come from our dependency on Chinese medical products, but things are changing behind the scenes as you’ll probably see in the media over the next few days.

[WigstonWanderer]

The anti mask sentiment in western cultures is absolutely baffling to me. Not to protect the person wearing it, but to protect everyone else. This is particularly important for this infection as it has been known from early on that there is significant asymptomatic transmission, yet we still get so called experts (not referring to anyone here) parroting the party line that you only need a mask if you are sick.

 

Governments could have encouraged the use of some form of face covering in public, particularly in crowded places like tube trains, and shops, whilst simultaneously launching a public information campaign showing how to make simple versions from readily available household materials and how to handle them safely.

 

Asian countries using them consistently are generally coping better than western nations.

[WigstonWanderer]

19 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Because, in normal circumstances, the country doesn’t need 100’s of thousands pieces of equipment. The problem has come from our dependency on Chinese medical products, but things are changing behind the scenes as you’ll probably see in the media over the next few days.

Granted, but why was there so little planning for ramping up production quickly in the event of a pandemic? There have been plenty of warnings from near misses like SARS and MERS to various studies, and from people like Bill Gates and others. This really isn’t a case of “who could possible have known?”. This is not just the UK (although they have been particularly slow off the mark), but applies to governments around the world.

[leicsmac]

33 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The anti mask sentiment in western cultures is absolutely baffling to me. Not to protect the person wearing it, but to protect everyone else. This is particularly important for this infection as it has been known from early on that there is significant asymptomatic transmission, yet we still get so called experts (not referring to anyone here) parroting the party line that you only need a mask if you are sick.

 

Governments could have encouraged the use of some form of face covering in public, particularly in crowded places like tube trains, and shops, whilst simultaneously launching a public information campaign showing how to make simple versions from readily available household materials and how to handle them safely.

 

Asian countries using them consistently are generally coping better than western nations.

There does seem to be a certain amount of debate regarding the effectiveness of masks in all this.

 

All I'll say is that there seems to be something that they're doing right over here - whether that's using masks, or being better at pinpointing infection areas, or a general better standard of health and social care, or a combination of it all, the numbers speak for themselves.

[swanlee]

27 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The anti mask sentiment in western cultures is absolutely baffling to me. Not to protect the person wearing it, but to protect everyone else. This is particularly important for this infection as it has been known from early on that there is significant asymptomatic transmission, yet we still get so called experts (not referring to anyone here) parroting the party line that you only need a mask if you are sick.

 

Governments could have encouraged the use of some form of face covering in public, particularly in crowded places like tube trains, and shops, whilst simultaneously launching a public information campaign showing how to make simple versions from readily available household materials and how to handle them safely.

 

Asian countries using them consistently are generally coping better than western nations.

Asians wearing masks have long been the butt of jokes and entirely misunderstood by us enlightened [sic] westerners.

 

The irony of it is they surely must think of us as a bunch of unhygienic, inconsiderate & selfish fools.

 

Out of consideration for fellow travellers, I'm not sure if you could of got a bunch of tube travelling Londoners to don masks. If you want inconsiderate, ill-mannered & invasive, then you'll not meet a more ingracious & self-centred bunch of specimens. 

[simFox]

4 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Governments could have encouraged the use of some form of face covering in public, particularly in crowded places like tube trains, and shops, whilst simultaneously launching a public information campaign showing how to make simple versions from readily available household materials and how to handle them safely.

 

Asian countries using them consistently are generally coping better than western nations.

Masking up the entire country would have been a great way of ensuring the NHS go short. 

[Sly]

1 minute ago, simFox said:

Masking up the entire country would have been a great way of ensuring the NHS go short. 

I think it was a hindsight statement. 
 

If we were pro masking in Western countries, then the chances are the spread of the virus would have been reduced. 
 

Incidentally, more masks would have been available as well, as they’d have a higher daily / weekly demand, so more would be produced. 
 

Not sure how recyclable they are though ....

[simFox]

8 hours ago, Kopic said:

I'm starting to get a bit worried about my situation. As I've said previously I work in distribution for a "big 4" supermarket. My workplace has done very little to enable the 2m social distancing. They've basically said "you're all adults, you can do it yourselves." But whilst saying this they haven't removed targets etc, and still have a lot of staff on site. So no matter how hard i try, theres always people very close to me; we are all still working in close proximity. Although I'm in my mid 20s, I'm quite overweight and a smoker so the risk is high to me. On top of that, both my parents, who I live with, are in their 60s with various health complications. On top of that, we have to get food from our household to my grandfather in his late 90s. My workplace has people from all over the east midlands working every day. I've gone to the union who are incredibly unhelpful right now. I cant personally have any time off as my absence record is shot to pieces due to a recent serious injury. Really at a loss about what to do. Even spoken to the managers about my concerns and they just seem to laugh it off whilst sitting directly next to each other in the smoking area.

In my view just maintain your hygiene, wear a mask if necessary. I'm still working and I feel privileged to do so. I think most people are looking at this as an excuse to take paid leave, but the economic consequences of this will be worse than the pandemic.

 

Everyone loves a free holiday, until they realise they've actually got to pay for it.

[Dahnsouff]

All this lockdown, social distancing is a little weird too me. Do people really need to be repeatedly told about these things? Have we really come so far that we need be told the consequences of our own wayward actions? 

Are we so reliant on the state for such things? Society does not begin and end at a governmental level ffs. Stinks of self abdication of responsibility too me, the bizarre belief that unless we are told how to behave to the nth degree, it is some failure that is beyond our personal control.

Might just sit on a bench and complain to the coppers who come along.

[simFox]

9 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

If you haven’t already read this, please do.

 

It’s long but it’s journalism at it’s very best. Forget your Boris/Churchill caricature ‘journalism’ and the PR-machine from his mates in the media that will kick into full swing from here onwards unless figures reach an absolutely catastrophic level, this is a methodical and articulate assessment of how we got to this point and, frankly, the failings that have been made along the way.

 

When this all dies down, some serious questions need asking. About the failure to see the warning signs and raise the risk warning level, about the initial herd immunity plan that could have been catastrophic, about the fact our healthcare system came into this with less  intensive care beds per 100,000 of population than smaller and less prosperous European countries, about failed opportunities to collaborate with our peers in Europe on managing the pandemic and to procure equipment that we now need desperately.

 

This, in particular, is astounding: “Between February 13 and March 30, Britain missed a total of eight conference calls or meetings about the coronavirus between EU heads of state or health ministers - meetings that Britain was still entitled to join.”

 

Yes, Boris may be in intensive care as a precaution. And as a fellow human being I would not wish him ill from here. But please, please do not let that cloud the fact that our current situation is in large part our own doing and some big questions should be waiting at the end of this.

All of a sudden everyone was an expert and saw it coming. You only need to read the start of this thread to understand the general sentiment.

 

EVERYONE who dismissed the signs and failed to understand the seriousness of what was unravelling is just as guilty.

 

You didn't need to be told, you could have took your own precautions. People were still going on holiday in march, attending big gatherings and neglecting hygiene. 

 

Almost everyone was ill prepared, but as usual are now looking for someone to blame for it.

 

The government at the time got a lot of flack from the SARS preparations that came to nothing, they didn't want to make the same mistakes.

 

This virus was coming whether you liked it or not, the response was only ever going to be reactive, maybe you still don't realise that either? Just be glad about the well organised responses we have made.

 

We now need to make sensible forward looking economical decisions, because it won't be long until your blaming the government for that too. 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, simFox said:

All of a sudden everyone was an expert and saw it coming. You only need to read the start of this thread to understand the general sentiment.

 

EVERYONE who dismissed the signs and failed to understand the seriousness of what was unravelling is just as guilty.

 

You didn't need to be told, you could have took your own precautions. People were still going on holiday in march, attending big gatherings and neglecting hygiene. 

 

Almost everyone was ill prepared, but as usual are now looking for someone to blame for it.

 

The government at the time got a lot of flack from the SARS preparations that came to nothing, they didn't want to make the same mistakes.

 

This virus was coming whether you liked it or not, the response was only ever going to be reactive, maybe you still don't realise that either? Just be glad about the well organised responses we have made.

 

We now need to make sensible forward looking economical decisions, because it won't be long until your blaming the government for that too. 

Less looking for people, institutions to blame, more self reliance please!

 

Governments always get the flack, and rightly always will, but society needs to provide for itself in part and not rely on the government for every little thing.

You want that type of government then maybe a dictatorship is more your thing