Corona Virus

[tom27111]

49 minutes ago, brucey said:

Maybe we should be putting out guidance to the public to tell them how to use masks and gloves properly, if people are going to be using them anyway. Even if only to reduce transmission from the asymptomatic infected. America has started recommending that everyone wears masks in public, so clearly the effectiveness (or lack thereof) is still a matter of debate.

 

There's no debate. There is absolutely zero evidence to show that wearing a mask prevents a healthy person from contracting Covid 19.

 

The WHO issued this on Monday:

 

https://www.who.int/publications-detail/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

[The Guvnor]

54 minutes ago, Parafox said:

I have to say, it really irritates me when I see people wearing masks, although I kind of see why, but they are utterly useless after an hour or so and are no more protective than no mask unless you are infected and then they will help prevent the release of a virus if you cough, sneeze or breathe close to another person. And believe me, wearing a dust particle type mask will not stop you getting a virus as you will be more likely to catch it from a contaminated surface by carrying it on your hands. Also, how do they dispose of the mask? I bet they don't have a dedicated clinical waste bin. But more than that, I see people wearing gloves, doing their shopping then they go and drive their car with those potentially contaminated gloves still on, handling the steering wheel, gearstick, door handles. I assume they then unload their shopping wearing the same gloves, take them off in the house and drop them in the bin. Or maybe they go to more than one shop with them still on. Do they not think it through? It's not just about protecting yourself it's about protecting others as well.

Exactly my point, wearing a mask is not just about protecting yourself but helping to protect other shoppers. Having ran the gauntlet of the supermarket again today its impossible to maintain any reasonable social distancing and I have to admit I fcuking hate doing it.

Interestingly the resident doctor on points west is now saying masks should where possible be used when shopping. We are lucky I suppose as I bought a few 

P3 masks before they became unavailable and as my wife is recovering from cancer thought it wise.

 

I take your point about correct use and disposal of gloves maybe there should be some info readily available but it aint rocket science.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[worth_the_wait]

8 hours ago, brucey said:

He's already the third retired UK doctor who died after volunteering to return. I think it's an awful idea. 

fyi - I don't think Dr Anton Sebastianpillai had actually retired.   I also thought that originally, but the BBC updated their original account to say they think he was still working and hadn't retired.   But yeah, same sentiment.    

[brucey]

25 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

There's no debate. There is absolutely zero evidence to show that wearing a mask prevents a healthy person from contracting Covid 19.

 

The WHO issued this on Monday:

 

https://www.who.int/publications-detail/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

I’m aware of the latest WHO guidance.

There is absolutely still tons of ongoing debate about this among scientist and medic circles.

And there has definitely been evidence that masks help to prevent contracting infection in influenza and other respiratory infections. The studies and evidence don’t yet exist here because this disease is still pretty new.
”Absence of evidence” is not ”Evidence of absence”.

 

Are you aware that healthy health workers are being told that a surgical mask is adequate to prevent them from contracting Covid-19? 
The properties of a mask don’t magically change from 0% to 70-100% effective when the same mask is being worn by a health worker. And health workers don’t get specific training on how to wear the mask either, it’s as simple as “don’t touch the outside of the mask, straight into a bin”.

 

If we had an unlimited supply of masks, we’d be posting them out to everybody along with proper instructions.

 

Edited 8 April 2020 by brucey

[Wymsey]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

I have to say, it really irritates me when I see people wearing masks, although I kind of see why, but they are utterly useless after an hour or so and are no more protective than no mask unless you are infected and then they will help prevent the release of a virus if you cough, sneeze or breathe close to another person. And believe me, wearing a dust particle type mask will not stop you getting a virus as you will be more likely to catch it from a contaminated surface by carrying it on your hands. Also, how do they dispose of the mask? I bet they don't have a dedicated clinical waste bin. But more than that, I see people wearing gloves, doing their shopping then they go and drive their car with those potentially contaminated gloves still on, handling the steering wheel, gearstick, door handles. I assume they then unload their shopping wearing the same gloves, take them off in the house and drop them in the bin. Or maybe they go to more than one shop with them still on. Do they not think it through? It's not just about protecting yourself it's about protecting others as well.

Agree entirely.

Some are quite possibly doing more potential harm, than good, in using these gloves all the time.

 

I'd rather use proven hand sanitiser throughout the day when in the house, before getting in and out the car etc.

-

I had to use one of these PPE today on a ward at LRI - which was quite uncomfortable for a while around the ears, and it got in the way at times when bending as it got caught against a service here and there.

[ealingfox]

2 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

You were the person who thought it was fine to go to the park a couple of weeks ago 'because it was still legal'. You also claim to be married to a doctor who agreed with you. That flew in the face of every other doctor talking to the media at the time who were crying, begging and pleading with the public to just stay at home. Do nothing else but just stay at home they pleaded. Those of us who could see what was coming used our common sense, listened to what the people on the front line were saying, and stayed at home. We didn't go to the park just because Boris hadn't outlawed it, we didn't need him to. 

I rest my case, people are stupid. 

 

You have been pretty disingenuous here tbh. I don't seem to be able to quote both this post and the posts which you replied to on that occasion, but I made the point that it was fine to go to the park to do exercise whilst keeping your distance. That was correct then, and it still is. I was accepting that the people who were gathered in groups were doing wrong, which they were then and would be now. So you've deliberately misreprented what I said. You'll also notice that that exchange was on 22 March, the day before the lockdown. I have never claimed to be married, and I said nothing about my partner agreeing with me - you patronisingly asked if I watched the news, and I told you that my partner is a doctor so the situation is something that is discussed a lot in our household.

 

I can also recognise that there is some nuance in the fact that not everyone in London has a garden. It's very easy to sit out in a garden in a deckchair getting on your high horse about people so much as setting foot outside their house. It is not as easy as that and it is incredibly difficult and not good for one's health to stay cooped up in a small flat with no outside space for days on end.

 

Secondly you have replied with a different argument to the one I made - as you did then, with the same attitude. The mere implication of questioning the government and you've pretty much flown off the handle. That seems unhealthy. Added to the fact you've just made stuff up to have a pop at me I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

 

You asked if the government could have done anything differently, and I responded that yes, they could have done anything differently. That hasn't got anything to do with me or my compliance with the advice or directives at any stage. I am not denying that people haven't been toeing the line, I can see that they have. I'd certainly agree that people are stupid. Those are both different things to the point I responded to. The social measures and enforcement of said measures is one aspect of 'things the government could do' amongst many in combating this situation. I didn't even say they should have done anything differently in that aspect .

 

In your view, does meeting their own targets on testing (as well as PPE and ventilators to think of it) not count as something the government could have done differently?

 

 

 

 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

22 hours ago, bovril said:

Interesting article, apologies if it's been posted already:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci/special-report-johnson-listened-to-his-scientists-about-coronavirus-but-they-were-slow-to-sound-the-alarm-idUSKBN21P1VF?fbclid=IwAR383zejqk61818bFUXo_NmP_v2lB65FM62V1nhzPoN0Yji_z3SlM3MqOQI

If you haven’t already read this, please do.

 

It’s long but it’s journalism at it’s very best. Forget your Boris/Churchill caricature ‘journalism’ and the PR-machine from his mates in the media that will kick into full swing from here onwards unless figures reach an absolutely catastrophic level, this is a methodical and articulate assessment of how we got to this point and, frankly, the failings that have been made along the way.

 

When this all dies down, some serious questions need asking. About the failure to see the warning signs and raise the risk warning level, about the initial herd immunity plan that could have been catastrophic, about the fact our healthcare system came into this with less  intensive care beds per 100,000 of population than smaller and less prosperous European countries, about failed opportunities to collaborate with our peers in Europe on managing the pandemic and to procure equipment that we now need desperately.

 

This, in particular, is astounding: “Between February 13 and March 30, Britain missed a total of eight conference calls or meetings about the coronavirus between EU heads of state or health ministers - meetings that Britain was still entitled to join.”

 

Yes, Boris may be in intensive care as a precaution. And as a fellow human being I would not wish him ill from here. But please, please do not let that cloud the fact that our current situation is in large part our own doing and some big questions should be waiting at the end of this.

[Izzy]

Seems people are gradually losing their shit more and more by the day on this thread.

 

Lots of squabbles, disagreements and arguments coming to a head.

 

We're all going stir crazy I think.

 

 

Edited 8 April 2020 by Izzy

[ithuriel]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Seems people are gradually losing their shit more and more by the day on this thread.

 

Lots of squabbles, disagreements and arguments coming to a head.

 

We're all going stir crazy I think.

 

 

I'm not but I'm a pessimistic optimist anyways.

[brucey]

 

[Guest Harrydc]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Seems people are gradually losing their shit more and more by the day on this thread.

 

Lots of squabbles, disagreements and arguments coming to a head.

 

We're all going stir crazy I think.

 

 

It's bound to happen I think. It's the same in my household, everyone getting on top of eachother, same thing day in day out.

 

Going online is a sort of escape for some, so maybe people are letting of steam online - I'm not sure. However, I do think it's a time everyone should be coming together and being nice, rather than the opposite. 

[Webbo]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

Only the ones who don't have to keep doing the day job from home 

My eldest daughter is working from home. She's ordered some of those earphones with a microphone so she can video conference but amazon won't deliver until May the 23rd, so she's using my tablet. I reckon her firm owe me for use of my facilities.

Edited 8 April 2020 by Webbo

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

6 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Seems people are gradually losing their shit more and more by the day on this thread.

 

Lots of squabbles, disagreements and arguments coming to a head.

 

We're all going stir crazy I think.

 

 

WTF you talking about?  Never heard anything so stupid in my life, ridiculous post. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🤣🤣🤣

[ealingfox]

11 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

If you haven’t already read this, please do.

 

It’s long but it’s journalism at it’s very best. Forget your Boris/Churchill caricature ‘journalism’ and the PR-machine from his mates in the media that will kick into full swing from here onwards unless figures reach an absolutely catastrophic level, this is a methodical and articulate assessment of how we got to this point and, frankly, the failings that have been made along the way.

 

When this all dies down, some serious questions need asking. About the failure to see the warning signs and raise the risk warning level, about the initial herd immunity plan that could have been catastrophic, about the fact our healthcare system came into this with less  intensive care beds per 100,000 of population than smaller and less prosperous European countries, about failed opportunities to collaborate with our peers in Europe on managing the pandemic and to procure equipment that we now need desperately.

 

This, in particular, is astounding: “Between February 13 and March 30, Britain missed a total of eight conference calls or meetings about the coronavirus between EU heads of state or health ministers - meetings that Britain was still entitled to join.”

 

Yes, Boris may be in intensive care as a precaution. And as a fellow human being I would not wish him ill from here. But please, please do not let that cloud the fact that our current situation is in large part our own doing and some big questions should be waiting at the end of this.

 

No no no, the government absolutely could not have done anything differently, and you are a stupid person if you suggest or even think otherwise.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Just now, Webbo said:

My eldest daughter is working from home. She's ordered some of those earphones with a microphone so she can video conference but amazon won't deliver until May the 23rd, so she's using my tablet. I reckon her phone owe me for use of my facilities.

I’d take that predicted delivery with a pinch of salt, I ordered Call of Duty which also had a May delivery date, it came within days. Although the item you have ordered is probably more in demand

[Unabomber]

Think I’ll be furloughed soon. Who else is? 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Just now, Unabomber said:

Think I’ll be furloughed soon. Who else is? 

I work in a team of 6, 4 of which are already furloughed, luckily (depending on which way you look at it) I was one of the 2 left on, the other 4 are off on full pay, with work making up the extra 20%

[Manini]

3 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Think I’ll be furloughed soon. Who else is? 

I have been for two weeks now. Bored mate. 

[ithuriel]

This is my second week of furlough, not certain though when I'm getting paid from this week on.

[worthosoriginals]

16 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Seems people are gradually losing their shit more and more by the day on this thread.

 

Lots of squabbles, disagreements and arguments coming to a head.

 

We're all going stir crazy I think.

 

 

Wouldn't it be lovely for nature  and the world if humans were off this planet. Or at least thinned out. 

Maybe she will come up with a plan? 

[Unabomber]

2 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

I work in a team of 6, 4 of which are already furloughed, luckily (depending on which way you look at it) I was one of the 2 left on, the other 4 are off on full pay, with work making up the extra 20%

Yeah our company isn’t making up the extra which I can’t argue with as we aren’t getting money coming in. I’m the last non director to still be working but it is very quiet. 

[Unabomber]

2 minutes ago, Manini said:

I have been for two weeks now. Bored mate. 

It’s weird cos part of me thinks I should be as I have barely anything to do. Yet today I got a call from a top guy at a certain house builder and it kind of justifies me still working. Such a weird situation as I feel bad for barely doing anything. 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Just now, Unabomber said:

It’s weird cos part of me thinks I should be as I have barely anything to do. Yet today I got a call from a top guy at a certain house builder and it kind of justifies me still working. Such a weird situation as I feel bad for barely doing anything. 

It’s really weird, I’m working harder because there are less staff, they’re off on furlough, but I’d sooner be the one working despite the increased workload.

[Unabomber]

1 minute ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

It’s really weird, I’m working harder because there are less staff, they’re off on furlough, but I’d sooner be the one working despite the increased workload.

Also I guess it shows faith from bosses to those that they kept working which is good 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

It’s really weird, I’m working harder because there are less staff, they’re off on furlough, but I’d sooner be the one working despite the increased workload.

If it ends up with redundancies at least you know who they would rather keep.