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[RonnieTodger]

8 hours ago, DanNDH88 said:

He’s just recovered from cancer mate.

 

actually that doesn’t seem the reason why he looks bald, but yeah he’s barely recognisable

Ah I feel like a twat. 
 

But yeah it took me ages to realise it’s actually him, even though he posted it.

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

There's a difference between rioting and protesting. Majority have done it right. Peacefully, marching across streets in their thousands without causing damage. Yet they've still been met with rubber bullets and tear gas and pepper spray. Guess that's fine in your eyes by the sounds of it. 

 

Surprised you've not shared the video of a lady getting pushed down by police causing her to have seizures. Surprised you've not shared the video of police in their SUVs driving round nearly running protestors over. Surprised you've not shared the video of police kneeling on a guys neck and hammering him in the ribs with a knee while cuffed and on the floor. Surprised you've not shared the video of a black person, with hands in the air, protesting with words (not abusively) and getting arrested just for speaking out. 

 

While you defend them, at what point does the police brutality on innocent people become unacceptable? 

Nice try but I didn’t defend police brutality though, did I pal?

Like many others on here your outrage only goes one way.

And don’t start with that- not that I need to convince you, but I guarantee I was just as disgusted as you were with that racist murder.

 

Without causing damage? Haha.

We’ll see how much damage has been caused in a couple of weeks won’t we. You know, because of the complete disregard for social distancing. Remember that?

You were pretty irate about a certain british politician who didn’t even scratch the surface relative to the damage these mass crowds will cause..... globally.
 

No Peace No Justice is the message. If murder charges are not deemed sufficient then how are we to appease in the short term? We now have a declaration of anarchy, Soros backed antifa on the scene as well. Civilisation is under immediate threat, and plenty of people are other loving it or ignoring it- it’s depressing.

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Nice try but I didn’t defend police brutality though, did I pal?

Like many others on here your outrage only goes one way.

And don’t start with that- not that I need to convince you, but I guarantee I was just as disgusted as you were with that racist murder.

 

Without causing damage? Haha.

We’ll see how much damage has been caused in a couple of weeks won’t we. You know, because of the complete disregard for social distancing. Remember that?

You were pretty irate about a certain british politician who didn’t even scratch the surface relative to the damage these mass crowds will cause..... globally.
 

No Peace No Justice is the message. If murder charges are not deemed sufficient then how are we to appease in the short term? We now have a declaration of anarchy, Soros backed antifa on the scene as well. Civilisation is under immediate threat, and plenty of people are other loving it or ignoring it- it’s depressing.

My outrage does not go only one way.

 

I think the looting, smashing up of shops is counter-intuitive and counter-productive and detracts from the proper message the majority of protestors wants to portray. 

 

You know full well what I meant when saying 'without causing damage'! Don't twist my words like that!

 

I can be irate at the looting, the police brutality and a British 'adviser' (not a politician). They're not all mutually exclusive.

 

I can support the Black Lives Matter campaign and also be dismayed by all the violence shown. I can support police and be dismayed by the brutality they show.

 

I'm pretty sure/hope that's allowed!

[urban.spaceman]

[smileysharad]

The only way black people would ever get heard in the USA is if they caused a massive kerfuffle.

 

 

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

My outrage does not go only one way.

 

I think the looting, smashing up of shops is counter-intuitive and counter-productive and detracts from the proper message the majority of protestors wants to portray. 

 

You know full well what I meant when saying 'without causing damage'! Don't twist my words like that!

 

I can be irate at the looting, the police brutality and a British 'adviser' (not a politician). They're not all mutually exclusive.

 

I can support the Black Lives Matter campaign and also be dismayed by all the violence shown. I can support police and be dismayed by the brutality they show.

 

I'm pretty sure/hope that's allowed!

There you go again, the looting and smashing up of shops (you missed out attempted murders as well by the way) is not ‘counter intuitive’, it’s fuching savagery and it’s criminal behaviour. Even when making a direct point to the contrary, you still manage to dress it up as some kind of substandard campaigning. Why can’t you just say that it’s wrong? 
 

OK yes that’s allowed, but if you support BLM then you need to accept that there is no peace while there is no justice. You can’t have it both ways. No peace means violence. Even peaceful protests in the UK are being advertised with clear instructions to not wear identifiable clothing... wonder why. If you are white then you must acknowledge your privilege and accept some financial responsibility for supporting BLM. it is your duty. You might call it a donation or maybe you could call it a down payment on reparations.

 

It is simply not enough to not be not racist, you must take steps to actively support the BLM movement beyond virtue signalling. Are you willing to do that on an ongoing basis?
 

This ideology is  rife in BLM social media groups, the terminology and imagery used is unsettling and in my opinion the group is divisive and many members do not have equality in mind.

 

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

This ideology is  rife in BLM social media groups, the terminology and imagery used is unsettling and in my opinion the group is divisive and many members do not have equality in mind.

 

You seem willing to tar everyone in BLM groups with that brush by the sounds of it

 

(Also, if it makes you feel really happy, yes I think it's wrong to loot and damage property). 

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

You seem willing to tar everyone in BLM groups with that brush by the sounds of it

 

(Also, if it makes you feel really happy, yes I think it's wrong to loot and damage property). 

Lol, again with the slanderous claims.

 

Many does not mean everyone, it is a relative term. Even a small cluster of people with such motivations would be too many in my eyes. 

[David Guiza]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

You seem willing to tar everyone in BLM groups with that brush by the sounds of it

 

(Also, if it makes you feel really happy, yes I think it's wrong to loot and damage property). 

Same thing happens with numerous other causes too. You'd think as football fans we'd know what it's like to be both treated like muck on a shoe by authorities and also to be labelled as thugish, thick, racist etc simply because a very small percentage are.

 

I think there are quite a few parallels with BLM and Feminist movements. Both are ultimately about equality, nothing more or less than that, however they will be ridiculed by many who will isolate incidents and comments from the most militant, or just downright stupid, people in those respective movements and make out that they speak for the majority. 

Just now, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Lol, again with the slanderous claims.

 

Many does not mean everyone, it is a relative term. Even a small cluster of people with such motivations would be too many in my eyes. 

Also, just for future reference, slander is spoken word.  

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

 

This ideology is  rife in BLM social media groups, the terminology and imagery used is unsettling and in my opinion the group is divisive and many members do not have equality in mind.

 

That is of course the fear, isn't it? That those who have held a decent degree of power are afraid that should they lose that power, they will end up being treated the same as they treated others when they had it. "When you are a hammer, everything else looks like a nail - or another hammer" or somesuch.

 

How much that fear is justified is difficult to tell, I think.

 

Anyway:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52932611

 

There does actually seem to be a bit more accountability going round right now, which is good.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Lol, again with the slanderous claims.

 

Many does not mean everyone, it is a relative term. Even a small cluster of people with such motivations would be too many in my eyes. 

 

2 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Same thing happens with numerous other causes too. You'd think as football fans we'd know what it's like to be both treated like muck on a shoe by authorities and also to be labelled as thugish, thick, racist etc simply because a very small percentage are.

 

I think there are quite a few parallels with BLM and Feminist movements. Both are ultimately about equality, nothing more or less than that, however they will be ridiculed by many who will isolate incidents and comments from the most militant, or just downright stupid, people in those respective movements and make out that they speak for the majority. 

Also, just for future reference, slander is spoken word.  

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That is of course the fear, isn't it? That those who have held a decent degree of power are afraid that should they lose that power, they will end up being treated the same as they treated others when they had it. "When you are a hammer, everything else looks like a nail - or another hammer" or somesuch.

 

How much that fear is justified is difficult to tell, I think.

 

Anyway:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52932611

 

There does actually seem to be a bit more accountability going round right now, which is good.

So it’s white folks turn for persecution is it?

 

Ok  😂 that sounds like a healthy attitude 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

So it’s white folks turn for persecution is it?

 

Ok  😂 that sounds like a healthy attitude 

 

 

Not entirely sure where that particular assertion came from, but just to be clear, of course not - my point, again for the sake of clarity, is that some folks are afraid that might happen. This is because IMO they are incapable of seeing a world where one group of humans are not oppressing or seeking to oppress another, often giving the justification that it is "just human nature".

 

Personally I think such fears are most likely totally groundless and indicative of a rather limited worldview, but that doesn't mean those fears shouldn't be addressed.

[bmt]

9 hours ago, leicsmac said:

This is probably the wrong place for this, but...

 

...the way the Imperial Japanese forces behaved during WWII was barbarous, no two ways about it. They did practically everything you said and more besides.

 

That being said, it is also true that a great many of the ones who committed these atrocities then got away scot-free with it because the Allies decided it would either be politically expedient or that they needed the scientific information that they had, and Allied bombers had subjected a lot of Japanese civilians to the most grotesque of deaths through concentrated firebombing (like with Operation Meetinghouse). Even Curtis LeMay, the architect thereof, said that is the US had lost the war he fully expected to be tried as a war criminal - but winners never are.

 

And we'll never really know if it would have been possible to starve the Japanese Home Islands into submission rather than invading or subjecting them to nuclear hellfire (both of which would be bloodbaths) and if it would have cost less Allied lives to do so, but I guess my point is that two wrongs don't necessarily make a right and the cruelty and lack of thought for human life and suffering wasn't altogether uni-directional.

I also think- why didn't they drop bombs outside of settlements to show what would happen but leave it as a last resort? Rather than pick places which hadn't been hit so they knew exact death tolls etc. 

 

I think the invasion argument is bollocks because it portrays it as there only being two choices, which isn't true. It also uses a counterfactual you can't have evidence for.

[davieG]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/1bn-bailout-for-german-giant-from-covid-fund-26v8qbfnk

 

£1bn bailout for German giant from Covid fund
Overseas companies supported by Bank scheme
Simon Duke | Philip Aldrick | Emily Gosden | James Dean
Friday June 05 2020, 12.01am, The Times

BASF is one of 53 large businesses that have taken a combined £16.2 billion from the Covid Corporate Financing Facility

The German chemicals giant BASF has emerged as the largest recipient of the Bank of England’s Covid-19 emergency funding scheme despite only employing 834 people in Britain.

The company, which is valued at €50 billion, has borrowed £1 billion from the Bank, equivalent to nearly £1.2 million for each of its UK workers.

The Bank revealed yesterday that 53 large businesses have taken a combined £16.2 billion from the Covid Corporate Financing Facility (CCFF), which was created to tide large companies through the pandemic.

Many of the groups that have seized a lifeline from the Bank are controlled by billionaire families and overseas multinationals, including the digger maker JCB, Tottenham Hotspur Football Club and Chanel, the luxury goods giant.

The disclosures have raised questions over why the overseas corporations and wealthy individuals have been given what is effectively state aid. Other critics said the government had missed a rich opportunity to impose strict environmental targets on the airlines and oil companies that have tapped the facility.

 

Borrowers had to show the Bank that they had a “significant” workforce in the UK and made a “material” contribution to the economy. Users issue commercial paper with a maturity of less than a year to the Bank of England, which deposits newly created cash in their accounts. The interest rate paid on the paper, the maturity of which can range from one week to a maximum of one year, is about 0.5 per cent, ranging from 20 basis points to 60 basis points above the standard overnight index swap rate.

The CCFF is one of a number of lending programmes supported by taxpayers to inject cash into companies and prevent an unemployment crisis. However, critics said that the Bank had been “taken for a ride” by some of the borrowers.

Dame Margaret Hodge, the Labour MP and former chairwoman of the public accounts committee, said: “Protecting jobs must be a priority. But this data leaves huge question marks over whether the CCFF has been a smart use of public finance.”

Dame Margaret, 75, questioned the “vast bailouts for foreign chemical giants fossil fuel firms and defence companies” and said that the government had “missed a trick” by not demanding stakes in companies that tap support schemes or force them to reduce the carbon emissions by imposing strict targets.

JCB has tapped the scheme for £600 million. The company is controlled by the Tory peer Lord Bamford, 74, who has a personal fortune of £4.7 billion, according to the Sunday Times Rich list. In 2018 the company paid the Bamford clan a dividend of £75 million after posting record profits.

 

CNH Industrial, the agricultural equipment and truck maker, and Chanel, the perfume maker, have also borrowed £600 million and are controlled by billionaires. Italy’s billionaire Agnelli family is behind CNH while brothers Alain and Gerard Wertheimer control Chanel. Bayer, the German drug company, has borrowed £600 million and only has 774 employees in the UK according to its latest set of filed accounts.

Environmental campaigners have attacked the Bank of England for allowing airlines and energy companies, including the oilfield services giants Schlumberger and Baker Hughes, as well as BA, Ryanair and Easyjet, to access the scheme.

“The government has made some bold claims about greening the recovery, but over the last two months they have missed endless opportunities to move Britain closer to the low carbon economy we need,” Fiona Nicholls, climate campaigner for Greenpeace UK, said.

 

Schlumberger, which received a £150 million loan, and Baker Hughes, which took £600 million, are respectively the world’s largest and second largest oilfield services companies, valued at $28 billion and $18 billion. Their main focus is on the US but they also operate in the North Sea.

 

BASF said it had a “tangible presence” in the UK, with eight production sites, four offices and three labs. The German giant added that its British operations “provide “employment, significant sales inside and outside the UK, and investment in innovation and R&D in universities and institutions”. The company has furloughed dozens of staff, primarily those working in car plants who spray-paint vehicles.

The figures show that seven companies which were using the scheme last week removed themselves before being named in public. Caroline Stockmann, chief executive of the Association of Corporate Treasurers, said companies were “worried about their reputation” and don’t want to be plastered all over the press. “People are also worried that more conditions currently unknown may be added,” she said.

[leicsmac]

45 minutes ago, bmt said:

I also think- why didn't they drop bombs outside of settlements to show what would happen but leave it as a last resort? Rather than pick places which hadn't been hit so they knew exact death tolls etc. 

 

I think the invasion argument is bollocks because it portrays it as there only being two choices, which isn't true. It also uses a counterfactual you can't have evidence for.

From what I can tell that has been publicly released regarding the Manhattan Project, the leading committee did consider giving a demonstration either on neutral or Japanese soil outside cities or giving an explicit warning about what was to come, but for a variety of reasons they decided direct military use against a target would be the only way to guarantee a quick Japanese surrender.

[urban.spaceman]

Breaking news: John Lennon's apartment building was not a safe place.

 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.businessinsider.com/unidentified-prison-agents-patrol-dc-amid-protests-curfew-2020-6

 

Hmmm...that's not Orwellian at all.

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

[Alf Bentley]

6 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

 

A peerage would be better.

 

"Lord Cummings of Barnard Castle" has a certain ring to it..... 

[Christoph]

If anybody wants to go down the rabbit hole of police brutality in the USA, reddit Public Freakout seems to be the home of where their showing up.   https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/ 

 

The way they are handling it over there is so messed up. And honestly why is that the majority of people who say "AlL LiVeS MaTtEr!!" Usually happen to be a fat, bald, white guy, fresh off the council estate with his poppy flag facebook background and an England flag on the front. Trampoline on front garden may be included. 

Edited 5 June 2020 by Christoph

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Christoph said:

If anybody wants to go down the rabbit hole of police brutality in the USA, reddit Public Freakout seems to be the home of where their showing up. 

No thanks (Get my head wobbling fix right here)

 

1 minute ago, Christoph said:

Usually happen to be a fat, bald, white guy, fresh off the council estate with his poppy flag facebook background and an England flag on the front. Trampoline on front garden may be included. 

[Lionator]

5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Not strictly the same but it reminds me of an Obama quote from last year.

“This idea of purity, and you’re never compromised, and you’re always politically woke and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly, the world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws. There is this sense sometimes of, ‘The way of me making change is to be as judgemental as possible about other people.’ And that’s enough. Like if I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself. ‘Cause, ‘Man, you see how woke I was? I called you out’.That's not activism, that's not going to bring change"

[Leicester_Loyal]

From what I've seen on social media, if you disgree with the rioting and looting it appears you get called a victim, a racist or told you have 'white privilege'. The highlight was seeing a mixed raced lad get told he was racist (to presumably half of himself).