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[urban.spaceman]

23 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Not strictly the same but it reminds me of an Obama quote from last year.

“This idea of purity, and you’re never compromised, and you’re always politically woke and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly, the world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws. There is this sense sometimes of, ‘The way of me making change is to be as judgemental as possible about other people.’ And that’s enough. Like if I tweet or hashtag about how you didn’t do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself. ‘Cause, ‘Man, you see how woke I was? I called you out’.That's not activism, that's not going to bring change"

Pretty sure they cancelled him for that. That’s how crazy some people are. 

[urban.spaceman]

Also:

 

 

She’s never heard of the skinheads...

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

From what I've seen on social media, if you disgree with the rioting and looting it appears you get called a victim, a racist or told you have 'white privilege'. The highlight was seeing a mixed raced lad get told he was racist (to presumably half of himself).

 

Interesting.

 

From what I've seen on social media, at least some people have the nuance to understand that a perfectly legitimate problem with the way certain police forces in the US approach people of differing demographics exists, it has been ignored whenever the question is raised peacefully, and while rioting and looting in the name of changing it up is abhorrent, that doesn't detract from the problem as it exists and maybe shouldn't be used as an argument for not addressing it.

[Dahnsouff]

Isn't it quite simple?

 

Some people are ar$holes (Usually seen in groups together performing ar$ehole activities) but some people are not  

[the fox]

Japanese civilians getting nuked is a crime. No matter how you put it. I actually can't believe that people will defend that act. 

 

Just because their military did crimes doesn't mean that civilians should be melted with a nuke.

 

 

 

 

 

[David Guiza]

21 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

From what I've seen on social media, if you disgree with the rioting and looting it appears you get called a victim, a racist or told you have 'white privilege'. The highlight was seeing a mixed raced lad get told he was racist (to presumably half of himself).

 

I haven't seen many people being called a racist for disagreeing with rioting, but I don't doubt that happens as you can find literally, and I hate the misuse of the word literally, any old nonsense on social media.

 

Rioting is a complex issue and isn't as black and white (excuse the awful pun) as some like to make out. I don't condone much of the awful looting, arson, violence etc that has happened over the past few days, but I understand it, or at least some of it It's a byproduct of a group of people turning their back on society, because society turned their back on them. The Boston Tea Party and Stonewall were riots (in the literal sense, I can't comment on the level of fun) and lead to widespread change, it's easy to completely disregard riots because of their violent nature, but I dare say good can come of them. That is not to say that any old common thief looting a pair of shoes is in any comparable to historic acts of rebellion, but those who feel that they have been silenced for decades, and even centuries across generations of their families, who out-pour that emotion by way of rioting is a little more understandable. As I say, it's a grey area for me.   

 

As for the mixed race chap you refer to, I have no idea if he is/was racist, however I would propose that you can be racist and black/mixed race. Same as you can be anti-feminist and a woman or homophobic and gay etc.

[Leicester_Loyal]

36 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

I haven't seen many people being called a racist for disagreeing with rioting, but I don't doubt that happens as you can find literally, and I hate the misuse of the word literally, any old nonsense on social media.

 

Rioting is a complex issue and isn't as black and white (excuse the awful pun) as some like to make out. I don't condone much of the awful looting, arson, violence etc that has happened over the past few days, but I understand it, or at least some of it It's a byproduct of a group of people turning their back on society, because society turned their back on them. The Boston Tea Party and Stonewall were riots (in the literal sense, I can't comment on the level of fun) and lead to widespread change, it's easy to completely disregard riots because of their violent nature, but I dare say good can come of them. That is not to say that any old common thief looting a pair of shoes is in any comparable to historic acts of rebellion, but those who feel that they have been silenced for decades, and even centuries across generations of their families, who out-pour that emotion by way of rioting is a little more understandable. As I say, it's a grey area for me.   

 

As for the mixed race chap you refer to, I have no idea if he is/was racist, however I would propose that you can be racist and black/mixed race. Same as you can be anti-feminist and a woman or homophobic and gay etc.

I agree with the protests, I don't agree with the attacking store owners or the looting of shops. 'Property can be replaced, lives can't' seems to be the slogan in order to justify robbing families of their businesses. Once they claim on their insurance it'll go up by thousands and it's highly likely these stores will not re-open, so all that'll happen is the community loses its own stores.

 

You might be able to be, but he certainly wasn't, he just disagreed with what was happening, was called a racist, and then responded with a picture of himself and his family (who happened to be half black), to which the other person never responded.

Edited 5 June 2020 by Leicester_Loyal

[nnfox]

For me, rioting and looting are two different matters.  Rioting is the turning of an emotionally motivated protest into violence.  That violence is an outlet for the anger that has built up.  Often the police are on the receiving end of the violence.  Quite probably, the issue with the rioters is not with the individual officers that they a fighting, it's more that the "police" are a physical representation of the "state" and the issue is against the state.  I understand the violence but by the same token I don't expect the police to just stand there and take it.  I expect them to be well equipped, organised, well trained and professional.  When they step in, I expect them to not mess about and I understand that in the chaos of the situation they aren't going to ask you to do something twice.  They will use force, people will get hurt.  In the face of so much anger and violence, I understand the police not taking chances.

 

Looting, on the other hand, is downright thievery.  If rioting is committed by passionate people, looting is done by the criminal element.  Once it starts, others join in thinking that it's defensible in the moment. It isn't and the community leaders leading the peaceful protests should be condemning the looters and distancing themselves from that activity.

[Lionator]

5 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I agree with the protests, I don't agree with the attacking store owners or the looting of shops. 'Property can be replaced, lives can't' seems to be the slogan in order to justify robbing families of their businesses. Once they claim on their insurance it'll go up by thousands and it's highly these stores will re-open, so all that'll happen is the community loses its own stores.

 

You might be able to be, but he certainly wasn't, he just disagreed with what was happening, was called a racist, and then responded with a picture of himself and his family (who happened to be half black), to which the other person never responded.

Rioting is not the answer however if you turn a blind eye or supress people (take the Colin Kaepernick issue) enough times then it's going to happen. Any sort of collective action will have fringes who take it far whether it be protesting, football crowds, the lot. On the other hand, and going back to the Obama quote I posted, sitting on twitter, shouting at president Trump, posting a black square or cancelling David Jason because of something he said on Only Fools in 1981 is also not activism, it's not a solution, it's just a tool to make you feel good about yourself. 

 

The right-winged minds need to be more accepting that the way things used to be, aren't acceptable any more, and the left-winged minds need to be more accepting that things that happened in the past do not define a person in the present. That way we can all grow as a harmonious society together. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

58 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Also:

 

 

She’s never heard of the skinheads...

I haven't researched but that's gotta be a pisstake surely

[urban.spaceman]

23 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I haven't researched but that's gotta be a pisstake surely

I honestly can't tell anymore. 

[hackneyfox]

Yaxley arrested again

[Voll Blau]

7 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

Yaxley arrested again

Imagine my shock.

 

Not seen a lot of condemnation over the lack of social distancing there's been at some of the protests up there from the same folks going tonto about that behaviour* at BLM rallies. Wonder why...

 

*I'm dismayed at the lack of social distancing at both personally.

[Innovindil]

7 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Imagine my shock.

 

Not seen a lot of condemnation over the lack of social distancing there's been at some of the protests up there from the same folks going tonto about that behaviour* at BLM rallies. Wonder why...

 

*I'm dismayed at the lack of social distancing at both personally.

Honest to jebus the bbc news story of him getting arrested is literally the first I've heard of these "protests". 

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Also:

 

 

She’s never heard of the skinheads...

Looks like its a pisstake account, phots are 8 years old:

 

 

[StanSP]

 

 

[StanSP]

17 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

Bloody hell.

 

A brief warning: this is a little disturbing to watch so be advised.

So, the 2 officers in this 'exchange' that pushed the old man over were suspended by the police force.

 

Now, the rest of the police unit has resigned 'in disgust' because their 2 colleagues were suspended.

 

That's how backwards things can be in America  

[UPinCarolina]

27 minutes ago, StanSP said:

So, the 2 officers in this 'exchange' that pushed the old man over were suspended by the police force.

 

Now, the rest of the police unit has resigned 'in disgust' because their 2 colleagues were suspended.

 

That's how backwards things can be in America  

And people here wonder why ACAB is trending as a phrase. 

[nnfox]

20 minutes ago, StanSP said:

So, the 2 officers in this 'exchange' that pushed the old man over were suspended by the police force.

 

Now, the rest of the police unit has resigned 'in disgust' because their 2 colleagues were suspended.

 

That's how backwards things can be in America  

It's a nightmare situation.  I haven't heard an update on the old man's condition, obviously I hope he pulls through.

 

This might be unpopular, but I have some sympathy with the officers here.  The unit is advancing forward, for an unknown reason, but presumably there was a reason.  The old man walks towards them, I have no idea what was said in the encounter.  The unit is advancing though and they don't look the types that are going to stop for a chat.  The push isn't a super-aggressive push, the old man is off balance and stumbles back.  My guess is that in this situation, 99% of the time, the person doesn't fall over.  The internet is littered with examples of police pushing people in all sorts of situations where the person being pushed doesn't fall over.  Even if the guy falls over, 99% of the time will result in no injury, or something very minor at worst.  It was tragic in this case that he clearly sustained a serious head injury - a freak injury given the circumstances.  The officers are pretty much immediately suspended without pay.  I can imagine the other officers thinking that it could happen to any single one of them as I bet all of them have pushed other people in other situations in a far more aggressive manner, yet their colleagues are now suspended without pay and are being vilified at every turn.  There was no malice, no attempt to injure.  It was a freak occurrence.  The other officers are expected to continue working probably 12 - 16 hour shifts, in hostile, dangerous situations, knowing that at anytime something bad could happen.  They also now have knowledge that the department they work for will hang them out to dry.

 

The worst part about the video for me was the lack of immediate first aid.  That could have been handled much better, but my understanding is that he did get medical attention fairly quickly.

[Jattdogg]

An old man, with all them cops and they have to push him over? Pathetic response!  Part of the problem with police is the wrong option they take in confronting people.  I would understand if he came out to fight but there was 0 need to push that man. It's not like they were out numbered or he was waving a gun from what i could see.

 

[Jattdogg]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5600068

 

Wtf? What a tit to bring Floyds name into the mix. Yes, I'm sure he is so happy to have traded in his life for what may or may not bring about change and oh because the job numbers looked great too. I'm sure his family and children prefer him to be dead and a martyr then with them 

[Trav Le Bleu]

#ALLlivesmatter

 

Just saying

[bovril]

11 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

#ALLlivesmatter

 

Just saying

Forest fans? 

[Guesty]

Not that it excuses those 57 officers. But the Buffalo Mayor has said their union forced them to resign. The union said if they didn't resign they would never represent them again in any future case.

 

This is one of the biggest problems. Union's are good to a point, but there comes a time where they overstep their duty. They become too militant.

 

Not sure what you can do to combat it though? Doubt you can just sack 57 officers easily. Maybe someone more senior will get involved because it makes no sense whatsoever. It's made a bad situation even worse - and made the union look awful.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Guesty said:

Not that it excuses those 57 officers. But the Buffalo Mayor has said their union forced them to resign. The union said if they didn't resign they would never represent them again in any future case.

 

This is one of the biggest problems. Union's are good to a point, but there comes a time where they overstep their duty. They become too militant.

 

Not sure what you can do to combat it though? Doubt you can just sack 57 officers easily. Maybe someone more senior will get involved because it makes no sense whatsoever. It's made a bad situation even worse - and made the union look awful.

More on this:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52945190

 

Nothing like a good old-fashioned Nuremberg Defence - New York Police have trotted out the "Just Following Orders" line before, too.

 

2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

#ALLlivesmatter

 

Just saying

Well, yes, of course.

 

The whole point of this is that Black Lives Matter as much as others, not that they matter more - and that tagline is important because it is reasonably clear a lot of PD in the US haven't got the memo.

 

 

3 hours ago, nnfox said:

It's a nightmare situation.  I haven't heard an update on the old man's condition, obviously I hope he pulls through.

 

This might be unpopular, but I have some sympathy with the officers here.  The unit is advancing forward, for an unknown reason, but presumably there was a reason.  The old man walks towards them, I have no idea what was said in the encounter.  The unit is advancing though and they don't look the types that are going to stop for a chat.  The push isn't a super-aggressive push, the old man is off balance and stumbles back.  My guess is that in this situation, 99% of the time, the person doesn't fall over.  The internet is littered with examples of police pushing people in all sorts of situations where the person being pushed doesn't fall over.  Even if the guy falls over, 99% of the time will result in no injury, or something very minor at worst.  It was tragic in this case that he clearly sustained a serious head injury - a freak injury given the circumstances.  The officers are pretty much immediately suspended without pay.  I can imagine the other officers thinking that it could happen to any single one of them as I bet all of them have pushed other people in other situations in a far more aggressive manner, yet their colleagues are now suspended without pay and are being vilified at every turn.  There was no malice, no attempt to injure.  It was a freak occurrence.  The other officers are expected to continue working probably 12 - 16 hour shifts, in hostile, dangerous situations, knowing that at anytime something bad could happen.  They also now have knowledge that the department they work for will hang them out to dry.

 

The worst part about the video for me was the lack of immediate first aid.  That could have been handled much better, but my understanding is that he did get medical attention fairly quickly.

I'm sorry, but this isn't just a little mistake - it's a litany of errors.

 

They had the chance to stop and talk more to a clearly unthreatening man as they advanced - they didn't. (Why, exactly, should police be "types that are not going to stop for a chat" - is that what we're looking for from fuzz?)

They had the chance to secure the situation by removing him out the way in a safer manner - they didn't.

They had the chance to offer the man immediate medical aid and attention once it was clear he was on the ground and seriously injured - they didn't.

 

If someone can't deal with a situation like this in a non-aggressive manner, they shouldn't be a cop. And that goes for all the others supposedly feeling the "pressure of the job" too - you chose that job, responsibility and serious accountability should come with it, and if that's not to ones liking numerous other jobs exist.

 

I get where you're coming from, but this is no stitch-up and there shouldn't be much sympathy for the way things have played out IMO.

Edited 6 June 2020 by leicsmac