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[Dahnsouff]

49 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Those who claim that is America is a fundamentally violent society should perhaps look at where it comes in the league table of violent nations.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-violent-countries

Not sure why, but surprised to see Russia do so poorly, but America cannot claim any credit from its position in that listing, its pretty poor to be honest.

[String fellow]

Given the choice of living in America or living in Afghanistan, guess which one I'd prefer? Btw, if you're comparing America with its northern neighbour, Canada, why not also compare it with its southern neighbour, Mexico? 

[Alf Bentley]

54 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Those who claim that is America is a fundamentally violent society should perhaps look at where it comes in the league table of violent nations.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-violent-countries

 

According to that table, the USA is.....

- Much less violent than Afghanistan, Yemen & Iraq

- Slightly less violent than Mexico, Iran & Egypt

- On a par with S. Africa, Myanmar & Brazil

- Slightly more violent than China, Uganda & Bangladesh

- Much more violent than Canada, Japan & W. Europe

 

I'm not sure that's a great record - and I say that as someone who loves a lot of what the USA has offered the world and who dreams of spending an extended period in the USA.

 

Something is wrong when one of the most advanced, richest democracies in the world only ranks average for violence - when many in the lower half are poverty-stricken or war zones or have totalitarian regimes or narcomafia.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Given the choice of living in America or living in Afghanistan, guess which one I'd prefer? Btw, if you're comparing America with its northern neighbour, Canada, why not also compare it with its southern neighbour, Mexico? 

May I ask what the point being driven at is here?

 

I get the angle that the US isn't as bad as some really nasty places, but I'm kinda curious as to the defence here. As Alf above says, it's not exactly a golden showing from a supposedly advanced and crazy rich democracy - especially one that preaches their own exceptionalism with pretty much every breath they take.

[Countryfox]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

According to that table, the USA is.....

- Much less violent than Afghanistan, Yemen & Iraq

- Slightly less violent than Mexico, Iran & Egypt

- On a par with S. Africa, Myanmar & Brazil

- Slightly more violent than China, Uganda & Bangladesh

- Much more violent than Canada, Japan & W. Europe

 

I'm not sure that's a great record - and I say that as someone who loves a lot of what the USA has offered the world and who dreams of spending an extended period in the USA.

 

Something is wrong when one of the most advanced, richest democracies in the world only ranks average for violence - when many in the lower half are poverty-stricken or war zones or have totalitarian regimes or narcomafia.

A complete overall of their gun laws might go a big way in helping the situation  ..   

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

May I ask what the point being driven at is here?

 

I get the angle that the US isn't as bad as some really nasty places, but I'm kinda curious as to the defence here. As Alf above says, it's not exactly a golden showing from a supposedly advanced and crazy rich democracy - especially one that preaches their own exceptionalism with pretty much every breath they take.

The point I was trying to make is that the sweeping generalisation about how violent America is (or isn't) should be taken into context with how other countries fare in comparison. As that list shows, there are plenty of more violent countries around the globe, not all of which are war-torn, for example Russia and India.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, String fellow said:

The point I was trying to make is that the sweeping generalisation about how violent America is (or isn't) should be taken into context with how other countries fare in comparison. As that list shows, there are plenty of more violent countries around the globe, not all of which are war-torn, for example Russia and India.

Fair enough.

 

My own thought on the matter is that if the US continuously talks the talk, then it needs to walk the walk too. I'm not sure it is doing so, or to the degree needed to back up the talk, anyhow.

Edited 18 March 2021 by leicsmac

[Stoopid]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

May I ask what the point being driven at is here?

 

I get the angle that the US isn't as bad as some really nasty places, but I'm kinda curious as to the defence here. As Alf above says, it's not exactly a golden showing from a supposedly advanced and crazy rich democracy - especially one that preaches their own exceptionalism with pretty much every breath they take.

Completely unscientific, I know, but when I lived in the USA I never felt remotely threatened.

Struck me as a good-natured society. Certainly more intrinsically polite than Britain. Which is a pretty polite country itself, I've always found. 

Maybe the high level of courtesy in America has something to do with the fact you're never quite sure if the person you're talking to has a gun on them or not!

[nnfox]

8 minutes ago, Stoopid said:

Completely unscientific, I know, but when I lived in the USA I never felt remotely threatened.

Struck me as a good-natured society. Certainly more intrinsically polite than Britain. Which is a pretty polite country itself, I've always found. 

Maybe the high level of courtesy in America has something to do with the fact you're never quite sure if the person you're talking to has a gun on them or not!

I agree.  How on earth can you measure and compare violence around the world? There isn't a standard way of measuring the stats and even if there was, some countries would be better at recording than others!

 

I've only been to the states twice but didn't feel the slightest bit threatened and despite all the media coverage of Violent America, wouldn't hesitate to go back.

 

There are lots of countries, US and UK included where there are parts that are absolutely fine and parts that you'd want to avoid.  In my mind, the US isn't particularly (if at all) more violent than the UK except that there might be variance with the type of violence at the extreme end of the scale i.e., I'd consider myself to be more likely to be shot in the states, but more likely to be stabbed in the UK.

[String fellow]

Per capita, the second highest civil-held gun ownership rate across the globe in 2017 after America was - you guessed it - the Falkland Islands!

[Bellend Sebastian]

10 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Per capita, the second highest civil-held gun ownership rate across the globe in 2017 after America was - you guessed it - the Falkland Islands!

Those penguins aren't going to shoot themselves

[Stoopid]

43 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Those penguins aren't going to shoot themselves

Not unless they've had a REALLY bad day.

[Otis]

59 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Per capita, the second highest civil-held gun ownership rate across the globe in 2017 after America was - you guessed it - the Falkland Islands!

With a population of less than 3000

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, Stoopid said:

Not unless they've had a REALLY bad day.

I imagine it's pretty bleak there

[LiberalFox]

[WigstonWanderer]

9 hours ago, String fellow said:

Those who claim that is America is a fundamentally violent society should perhaps look at where it comes in the league table of violent nations.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-violent-countries

Most violent of western style democracies, unless you count Israel which is something of a special case.

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Most violent of western style democracies, unless you count Israel which is something of a special case.

Mexico and Columbia are western democracies which are more violent than America. The relationship between how violent a country is and it's gun ownership per capita shows very little correlation.   

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, Stoopid said:

Completely unscientific, I know, but when I lived in the USA I never felt remotely threatened.

Struck me as a good-natured society. Certainly more intrinsically polite than Britain. Which is a pretty polite country itself, I've always found. 

Maybe the high level of courtesy in America has something to do with the fact you're never quite sure if the person you're talking to has a gun on them or not!

 

7 hours ago, nnfox said:

I agree.  How on earth can you measure and compare violence around the world? There isn't a standard way of measuring the stats and even if there was, some countries would be better at recording than others!

 

I've only been to the states twice but didn't feel the slightest bit threatened and despite all the media coverage of Violent America, wouldn't hesitate to go back.

 

There are lots of countries, US and UK included where there are parts that are absolutely fine and parts that you'd want to avoid.  In my mind, the US isn't particularly (if at all) more violent than the UK except that there might be variance with the type of violence at the extreme end of the scale i.e., I'd consider myself to be more likely to be shot in the states, but more likely to be stabbed in the UK.

I spent rather a lot of time over there and there were next to no times I felt unsafe, either. But unfortunately that's just anecdotal and I naturally feel inclined to trust the stats that have been posted over anecdotal evidence.

 

Evidently there is a problem over there, but it probably varies hugely by region. I remember someone saying that the US isn't really a country at all, rather a loose conglomerate of states with (still) wildly varying attitudes, and I think that holds true here.

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, String fellow said:

Mexico and Columbia are western democracies which are more violent than America. The relationship between how violent a country is and it's gun ownership per capita shows very little correlation.   

Aw c’mon, you’re not seriously comparing a couple of violent drug capitals with the most advanced western society on the planet? 

Edited 19 March 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[ozleicester]

Im glad i got covid and not stomach cancer

[Voll Blau]

Still getting my head round people being more arsed about a TV presenter's jokey comment about a flag than having their actual right to protest limited by the government. This country's off its tits these days.

Edited 19 March 2021 by Voll Blau

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Still getting my head round people being more arsed about a TV presenter's jokey comment about a flag than having their actual right to protest limited by the government. This country's off its tits these days.

Sorta ironic I've seen stuff about the right to protest thing but not this flag comment. 

Edited 19 March 2021 by Innovindil

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56452471

 

Diplomatic relations not exactly at an all time high, then.

[Mike Oxlong]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Still getting my head round people being more arsed about a TV presenter's jokey comment about a flag than having their actual right to protest limited by the government. This country's off its tits these days.

And the government’s plans to limit the right to judicial review whereby the individual is able to challenge the lawfulness of decisions by the state and other public bodies has also gone under the radar. Apparently it’s not because the government doesn’t like being challenged but rather because of their concern for judges having to dirty their hands considering such matters ! 

[LiberalFox]

People's politics just isn't objective.