Also in the news

[Izzy]

If any group could be excused for a mass gathering yesterday, it was probably the community of Dunblane to mark 25 years since the atrocities. I’m sure the families of the victims wanted nothing more than to gather together and pay thier respects.

 

But they didn’t. They stayed at home, had doorstep vigils, connected by Zoom for a church service and all followed the rules.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

It probably is possible but I personally feel that it would have been far more powerful and respectful to have had last night a a vigil, for people to go along, light a candle, lay flowers and say a prayer and then had a protest in her name at a later date to then try and effect change for Sarah and every other woman who doesn't feel safe. 

I don't disagree.

 

However there is also such a thing as striking while the iron is hot and people still actually care about the topic, and evidently folks felt that way too.

 

Honestly don't know what the best solution is but I do know that it's got to be followed, somehow.

 

3 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Alright lads tone it down a bit eh. Life's shite enough right now without being at each others throats. 

Yeah, second this. It's getting a bit messy here.

 

[Scotch]

5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

If any group could be excused for a mass gathering yesterday, it was probably the community of Dunblane to mark 25 years since the atrocities. I’m sure the families of the victims wanted nothing more than to gather together and pay thier respects.

 

But they didn’t. They stayed at home, had doorstep vigils, connected by Zoom for a church service and all followed the rules.

I don't feel that a rep point is enough to demonstrate how much I agree with this... so yeah, THIS!!

[Leicester_Loyal]

Aren't we being told that the risk of outdoor COVID transmission is practically nil? Hence why the beach gatherings, the V day celebration street parties, the BLM/Anti BLM protests, the statue protests, Coventry/Liverpool/Leeds fans gatherings all did not result in any form of spike with COVID cases? I'm sure yesterday Whitty and Valance said the transmission of COVID outdoors was minimal, but I'll have to try and dig the briefing out.

 

I can't believe we are putting laws into place which stop the right to protest or which stop large gatherings for causes, it's unbelievable that we've allowed this to happen, I don't agree with it at all. At first, I'd have agreed last year, but we know so much more about the virus now. The police really were only enforcing the laws and doing their job, they probably don't agree with them just as many of us don't at the minute.

 

The sheer hypocrisy from MPs is laughable, they vote the laws in (and will do so again on Monday), yet condemn the police and say the right to protest etc. should never be taken away from us. You can't pick and choose which parts of the law you agree with, nor which protests or gatherings should be allowed just because you agree with the cause.

 

I've lost a lot of respect for the police over the past few years, I have absolutely zero confidence in them if I'm totally honest. However, I know a couple of them, and they're just average people, labelling them all as white right wing nazis or whatever is ridiculous, especially when a lot of them come different backgrounds. These poor bastards get spat on and abused on a daily basis, it can't be an easy job, and for not a huge amount of money, no-one deserves that. I'm far from a police sympathizer as you can tell, but they are in a no win situation, if their boss tells them to break the protest up by any means necessary, they've got to do it.

[Big Dave]

I think one of the issues here is that (I am guessing) the vast majority of this forum are white males (as am I), and we dont really understand the issues that  women, BAME, LGBTQ, as we are not affected by them on a day to day basis, and we seem to be very slow at times in improving the world around us, and in many cases seem to be going backwards.  For example, I thought that the racism issue in this country was improving, but now sadly seems to be as big an issue as ever (I appreciate this is debatable, and not intended to open up another debate here).

 

People should be able to live their lives without fear of prejudice, fear of attack, etc - it is a basic human right, but we are still not there - in fact a long way from it.

 

Anyway, back to my original point. As white males, I don’t think we always ‘get it’ when it comes to these issues.  I think we think we do, but we don’t, not if you really talk in depth to people affected by the issues. People need a platform to be able to demonstrate the issue caused, call it a vigil, protest, demonstration etc.  
Yea, we are in a Pandemic, but as other posters have demonstrated with links to articles, these outdoor gatherings have no impact on increasing the issues of the Pandemic.

 

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

I think one of the issues here is that (I am guessing) the vast majority of this forum are white males (as am I), and we dont really understand the issues that  women, BAME, LGBTQ, as we are not affected by them on a day to day basis, and we seem to be very slow at times in improving the world around us, and in many cases seem to be going backwards.  For example, I thought that the racism issue in this country was improving, but now sadly seems to be as big an issue as ever (I appreciate this is debatable, and not intended to open up another debate here).

 

People should be able to live their lives without fear of prejudice, fear of attack, etc - it is a basic human right, but we are still not there - in fact a long way from it.

 

Anyway, back to my original point. As white males, I don’t think we always ‘get it’ when it comes to these issues.  I think we think we do, but we don’t, not if you really talk in depth to people affected by the issues. People need a platform to be able to demonstrate the issue caused, call it a vigil, protest, demonstration etc.  
Yea, we are in a Pandemic, but as other posters have demonstrated with links to articles, these outdoor gatherings have no impact on increasing the issues of the Pandemic.

 

Yep, spot on.

 

The issue is that there are too many folks who simply don't want to "get it" because they don't believe that there is a problem at all - or if there is it doesn't affect them so it's all ok. There's none so deaf as those who won't hear.

[walkerleeds]

1 hour ago, TamworthFoxes said:

The lengths you are going to to defend this illegal gathering is embarrassing.

A bizarre decision not to let people gather during a pandemic?! Really?

So by banning a gathering the courts risked people catching covid?! No just the opposite, if people had listened then no one turns up hence no risk whatsoever.

 

 

This is a particularly emotive subject given the perpetrator is supposed to be the one protecting the victim. I believe that's where the outcry of emotion is coming from. This has touched people's hearts and I can absolutely see why people took to the streets to attend the vigil, pandemic or not.

 

If I was a cynical man I'd suggest the reason it was policed was to try and stop it gathering more momentum and thus causing more distrust for the Met, rather than it being "illegal" due to the pandemic. 

[tom27111]

Wakes up...

Checks Foxestalk...

See's everyone is having a lovely relaxing Sunday morning and looking forward to the game later 

 

 

[peach0000]

2 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

Wakes up...

Checks Foxestalk...

See's everyone is having a lovely relaxing Sunday morning and looking forward to the game later 

 

 

This has been going on since 7am 

Nothing like a good controversial debate to get the brain going on a Sunday morning! 

I will say it's getting too personal now which is why I've stepped back!

[Bellend Sebastian]

12 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

I think one of the issues here is that (I am guessing) the vast majority of this forum are white males (as am I), and we dont really understand the issues that  women, BAME, LGBTQ, as we are not affected by them on a day to day basis, and we seem to be very slow at times in improving the world around us, and in many cases seem to be going backwards.  For example, I thought that the racism issue in this country was improving, but now sadly seems to be as big an issue as ever (I appreciate this is debatable, and not intended to open up another debate here).

 

People should be able to live their lives without fear of prejudice, fear of attack, etc - it is a basic human right, but we are still not there - in fact a long way from it.

 

Anyway, back to my original point. As white males, I don’t think we always ‘get it’ when it comes to these issues.  I think we think we do, but we don’t, not if you really talk in depth to people affected by the issues. People need a platform to be able to demonstrate the issue caused, call it a vigil, protest, demonstration etc.  
Yea, we are in a Pandemic, but as other posters have demonstrated with links to articles, these outdoor gatherings have no impact on increasing the issues of the Pandemic.

 

Akin to a blast of lemon scented air freshener into a cloud of the most noxious farts, Big Dave enters the thread and with minimum drama reminds us that not everybody's experience of life is the same as our own.

 

This shouldn't be blue sky thinking but in the context of some of the discourse in here it really feels like it is

 

 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Akin to a blast of lemon scented air freshener into a cloud of the most noxious farts, Big Dave enters the thread and with minimum drama reminds us that not everybody's experience of life is the same as our own.

 

This shouldn't be blue sky thinking but in the context of some of the discourse in here it really feels like it is

 

 

Lack of empathy is a real problem. But then it was always thus.

[Nick]

48 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

I think one of the issues here is that (I am guessing) the vast majority of this forum are white males (as am I), and we dont really understand the issues that  women, BAME, LGBTQ, as we are not affected by them on a day to day basis, and we seem to be very slow at times in improving the world around us, and in many cases seem to be going backwards.  For example, I thought that the racism issue in this country was improving, but now sadly seems to be as big an issue as ever (I appreciate this is debatable, and not intended to open up another debate here).

 

People should be able to live their lives without fear of prejudice, fear of attack, etc - it is a basic human right, but we are still not there - in fact a long way from it.

 

Anyway, back to my original point. As white males, I don’t think we always ‘get it’ when it comes to these issues.  I think we think we do, but we don’t, not if you really talk in depth to people affected by the issues. People need a platform to be able to demonstrate the issue caused, call it a vigil, protest, demonstration etc.  
Yea, we are in a Pandemic, but as other posters have demonstrated with links to articles, these outdoor gatherings have no impact on increasing the issues of the Pandemic.

 

Great post Big Dave.

[Samilktray]

35 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

You work in the canteen and have some of them not said thank you every time you give them extra chips?!

You know if the poster (or anyone for that matter) did work in the canteen of a police station, that wouldn’t make them any less of a person? What a weird thing to try and demean someone for, having a job. 

[RumbleFox]

I think a major part of the problem is that lots of men can’t help but feel personally attacked when they hear chat like this. The “not all men” brigade. They can’t listen to sentences like “men attack women” without thinking “yeah but I don’t”. In doing this they completely refuse to actually address the issue and become so defensive that their reaction to things like this murder end up so messily tied up with their feelings that someone is having a go at them that they just can’t show any compassion at all. Which really is, when you think about it, so fvcking pathetic. If women are telling us they feel unsafe our job is to listen and not to belittle their experience. With regards to the police actions last night, I honestly can’t see why anyone would want to defend the way they felt with the situation. Completely lacking in common sense and compassion and a completely heavy handed farce. 
 

Men need to change. I’m a man. I don’t personally attack women but hearing that lots of men do and that even I might sometimes make women feel unsafe makes me fvcking angry. Not because I’m angry that they are attacking me or lumping me in with the kind of men that do attack women. I’m angry that women are being attacked and living in a world in which they often don’t feel safe and I’m fully willing to look at my own behaviour and ask what I can do to help even though on the surface I obviously don’t see myself as “part of the problem”. X 

Edited 14 March 2021 by RumbleFox

[urban.spaceman]

Kinell.

 

 

 

[RowlattsFox]

History suggests large outdoor gatherings aren't too much of a risk, albeit a greater risk then not having one but people will use it as an excuse break the rules in other areas. It makes it more difficult to have a stay at home message, but it's ok if you're protesting about something. 

 

Massive hypocrisy from people who complain about gatherings unless they agree with the cause or reason. Of course hundreds on a beach is different to people respecting a lost life but a large gathering is a large gathering, regardless of the reason. 

 

It should have been handled better by everyone involved. 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I think a major part of the problem is that lots of men can’t help but feel personally attacked when they hear chat like this. The “not all men” brigade. They can’t listen to sentences like “men attack women” without thinking “yeah but I don’t”. In doing this they completely refuse to actually address the issue and become so defensive that their reaction to things like this murder end up so messily tied up with their feelings that someone is having a go at them that they just can’t show any compassion at all. Which really is, when you think about it, so fvcking pathetic. If women are telling us they feel unsafe our job is to listen and not to belittle their experience. With regards to the police actions last night, I honestly can’t see why anyone would want to defend the way they felt with the situation. Completely lacking in common sense and compassion and a completely heavy handed farce. 
 

Men need to change. I’m a man. I don’t personally attack women but hearing that lots of men do and that even I might sometimes make women feel unsafe makes me fvcking angry. Not because I’m angry that they are attacking me or lumping me in with the kind of men that do attack women. I’m angry that women are being attacked and living in a world in which they often don’t feel safe and I’m fully willing to look at my own behaviour and ask what I can do to help even though on the surface I obviously don’t see myself as “part of the problem”. X 

This should be required reading for everyone on this topic.

[nnfox]

47 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I think a major part of the problem is that lots of men can’t help but feel personally attacked when they hear chat like this. The “not all men” brigade. They can’t listen to sentences like “men attack women” without thinking “yeah but I don’t”. In doing this they completely refuse to actually address the issue and become so defensive that their reaction to things like this murder end up so messily tied up with their feelings that someone is having a go at them that they just can’t show any compassion at all. Which really is, when you think about it, so fvcking pathetic. If women are telling us they feel unsafe our job is to listen and not to belittle their experience. With regards to the police actions last night, I honestly can’t see why anyone would want to defend the way they felt with the situation. Completely lacking in common sense and compassion and a completely heavy handed farce. 
 

Men need to change. I’m a man. I don’t personally attack women but hearing that lots of men do and that even I might sometimes make women feel unsafe makes me fvcking angry. Not because I’m angry that they are attacking me or lumping me in with the kind of men that do attack women. I’m angry that women are being attacked and living in a world in which they often don’t feel safe and I’m fully willing to look at my own behaviour and ask what I can do to help even though on the surface I obviously don’t see myself as “part of the problem”. X 

Let me get this straight...  Are you saying that some men are bad so all men, by virtue of their gender, need to change?

 

Maybe I have misunderstood, but that might be the most discriminative post I've read on here for a long time.  I don't believe that was your intention.

[Mike Oxlong]

2 hours ago, tom27111 said:

Wakes up...

Checks Foxestalk...

See's everyone is having a lovely relaxing Sunday morning and looking forward to the game later 

 

 

Don’t worry 

 

It’s going to be hugs, kisses and fist pumps in the match thread later 

[RumbleFox]

9 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Let me get this straight...  Are you saying that some men are bad so all men, by virtue of their gender, need to change?

 

Maybe I have misunderstood, but that might be the most discriminative post I've read on here for a long time.  I don't believe that was your intention.

I’m saying we can listen and be part of the change. It’s really quite simple I would have thought? But thanks for the straw man. X 

Edited 14 March 2021 by RumbleFox

[Fox92]

31 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

I’m saying we can listen and be part of the change. It’s really quite simple I would have thought? But thanks for the straw man. X 

It is simple (and so was your post). Not sure where the confusion was.

Edited 14 March 2021 by Fox92

[RumbleFox]

11 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

It is simple (and so was your post). Not sure where the confusion was.

You calling me simple?! X 

[String fellow]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Lack of empathy is a real problem. But then it was always thus.

Empathy isn't always a good thing. It depends upon with whom one empathises. The Stockholm syndrome is a case of empathising with the bad guys, and there are numerous other similar examples. By empathising with any given group in society, one inevitably loses empathy towards its opponents.

[RumbleFox]

10 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Empathy isn't always a good thing. It depends upon with whom one empathises. The Stockholm syndrome is a case of empathising with the bad guys, and there are numerous other similar examples. By empathising with any given group in society, one inevitably loses empathy towards its opponents.

But a lot of the time it’s good though right? 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Empathy isn't always a good thing. It depends upon with whom one empathises. The Stockholm syndrome is a case of empathising with the bad guys, and there are numerous other similar examples. By empathising with any given group in society, one inevitably loses empathy towards its opponents.

Too much empathy is less harmful than too little. Better to show some and risk being taken advantage of than show too little and allow people to suffer through inaction IMO.

 

NB. The idea that there are and have to be adversarial "opponents" when it comes to humans is exactly the kind of thinking that will leave humanity found horribly wanting when the time comes.