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[Finnaldo]

20 hours ago, String fellow said:

The point I was trying to make is that the sweeping generalisation about how violent America is (or isn't) should be taken into context with how other countries fare in comparison. As that list shows, there are plenty of more violent countries around the globe, not all of which are war-torn, for example Russia and India.

Russia, after the dissolution of Soviet Union, was an absolute hellscape. An annihilated economy with substance abuse through the roof, a suicide rate of 45 per 100,000 at its peak, where globally 25 is considered a worrying epidemic, its only been reigned in by an autocratic regime. 
 

India has a sizeable population still living in slums. It’s a country that’s had to rapidly develop from an Imperial holding with plenty of upheaval in between. 
 

12 hours ago, String fellow said:

Mexico and Columbia are western democracies which are more violent than America. The relationship between how violent a country is and it's gun ownership per capita shows very little correlation.   

Mexico is in a constant battle to control itself from drug cartels, there’s some areas that have been seized and held by indigenous paramilitaries for almost a quarter of a century.

 

Colombia has the same drug cartel issues if not worse, and only recently officially concluded a civil war. 
 

You've gave examples of the worst areas of the world to say the US is doing well. If it was doing well it would be compared to Western Europe and the Nordic countries. 

 

Its certainly not a third world warzone, but for one of the most prosperous and rich countries in the world it has an appalling record of violence. 

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

Russia, after the dissolution of Soviet Union, was an absolute hellscape. An annihilated economy with substance abuse through the roof, a suicide rate of 45 per 100,000 at its peak, where globally 25 is considered a worrying epidemic, its only been reigned in by an autocratic regime. 
 

India has a sizeable population still living in slums. It’s a country that’s had to rapidly develop from an Imperial holding with plenty of upheaval in between. 
 

Mexico is in a constant battle to control itself from drug cartels, there’s some areas that have been seized and held by indigenous paramilitaries for almost a quarter of a century.

 

Colombia has the same drug cartel issues if not worse, and only recently officially concluded a civil war. 
 

You've gave examples of the worst areas of the world to say the US is doing well. If it was doing well it would be compared to Western Europe and the Nordic countries. 

 

Its certainly not a third world warzone, but for one of the most prosperous and rich countries in the world it has an appalling record of violence. 

I didn't say that America was doing well, I said that isn't as bad as lot of other countries. The thrust of your message seems to be that other violence-prone countries have an excuse for their trouble, whereas America doesn't. Well, most countries have internal tensions for a variety of different reasons, and America is no different. One wonders how many of FT's America-bashers would actually quite like to live there. My brother-in-law lived for many years in Idaho Falls and he absolutely loved it. He found everyone to be a lot friendlier than most folk are here. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, String fellow said:

I didn't say that America was doing well, I said that isn't as bad as lot of other countries. The thrust of your message seems to be that other violence-prone countries have an excuse for their trouble, whereas America doesn't. Well, most countries have internal tensions for a variety of different reasons, and America is no different. One wonders how many of FT's America-bashers would actually quite like to live there. My brother-in-law lived for many years in Idaho Falls and he absolutely loved it. He found everyone to be a lot friendlier than most folk are here. 

As per above, I lived there for some time, and I found the vast majority of people that I met there amenable and friendly.

 

However, anecdotes are not evidence, and unless the statistics are lies they tell their own story about the problems there.

[leicsmac]

Oh, and as an addendum; I would think, and say, that what passes for a healthcare "system" in the US would put a lot of people who aren't crazy rich off living there.

[leicsmac]

 

A little satirical...but only a little.

[String fellow]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

As per above, I lived there for some time, and I found the vast majority of people that I met there amenable and friendly.

 

However, anecdotes are not evidence, and unless the statistics are lies they tell their own story about the problems there.

I realise that anecdotes aren't evidence, which is why I invariably use statistics. And when I do, folk complain. It's a funny old world!

[Bellend Sebastian]

In today's fun episode of the adventures of "Tommy" "Robinson", our pint sized protagonist deals with the thorny problem of a journalist writing a story about how he spaffed the money raised for him by his supporters on cocaine and prostitutes, in the only way he knows how: by turning up at her home and falsely claiming her partner is a paedophile

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/tommy-robinson-given-stalking-ban-after-threats-to-journalist

 

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, String fellow said:

I realise that anecdotes aren't evidence, which is why I invariably use statistics. And when I do, folk complain. It's a funny old world!

I would submit that their interpretation of the stats and yours (and mine, come to that) are rather different and that's the source of the complaining here.

[Voll Blau]

10 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

In today's fun episode of the adventures of "Tommy" "Robinson", our pint sized protagonist deals with the thorny problem of a journalist writing a story about how he spaffed the money raised for him by his supporters on cocaine and prostitutes, in the only way he knows how: by turning up at her home and falsely claiming her partner is a paedophile

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/tommy-robinson-given-stalking-ban-after-threats-to-journalist

 

Should ensure another raft of donations from the terminally thick for Are Tommy then...

[urban.spaceman]

Would you open a package prepared and left for you by Gerry Adams?

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-56462390

 

The hell with that. The entire academic publishing industry is a racket that the scientific writers themselves have no control over anyway - long live places like Sci-Hub for blowing the bloody doors off.

[Pliskin]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-bristol-56477887
 

Shocking scenes. 

[Wymsey]

Hope it won't lead to it happening.

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/360000-people-sign-petition-calling-5211305

[Blue-fox]

55 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-bristol-56477887
 

Shocking scenes. 

Madness. Literally what is the world

coming too

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-bristol-56477887
 

Shocking scenes. 

It's about a week since I suggested the bill would lead to folk kicking off more.

 

I claim no wondrous foresight whatsoever. It's so predictable that this is happening it's almost as if they wanted it to. Part of a great plan or simple incompetence? It's increasingly hard to tell

[Shane]

3 hours ago, Pliskin said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-bristol-56477887
 

Shocking scenes. 

‘Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable’ - John F. Kennedy, 1962.

 

Unfortunately it’s no surprise the new bill has led to this. I suspect the violence will make the govt double down on the new bill and really clamp down on the protests, which is probably going to lead to more violence 

Edited 22 March 2021 by Shane

[leicsmac]

There's a few reasons to be concerned about the Policing Bill tbh, what Shane said above is spot on.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56476909

 

Religious fundie government in "traditional values" (read allowing mistreating of women and LGBT folks) shocker.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56479316

 

Everyone ready for Trumpter?

[Pliskin]

4 hours ago, Shane said:

‘Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable’ - John F. Kennedy, 1962.

 

Unfortunately it’s no surprise the new bill has led to this. I suspect the violence will make the govt double down on the new bill and really clamp down on the protests, which is probably going to lead to more violence 

I think you’re right. But we ought to be passed this phase of medieval violent protests, were supposedly evolved states.... “kill the Bill”.... people seem to forget that cops aren’t deployed from a factory off a pick line, they’re humans, people with families, kids and a life. This isn’t their doing, the government have formulated this bill to help control violent protests, granted there was no real need, but for a handful of incidents, protests are more often than not dealt with well by the police, only occasionally the Met **** things up for everyone.  

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I think you’re right. But we ought to be passed this phase of medieval violent protests, were supposedly evolved states.... “kill the Bill”.... people seem to forget that cops aren’t deployed from a factory off a pick line, they’re humans, people with families, kids and a life. This isn’t their doing, the government have formulated this bill to help control violent protests, granted there was no real need, but for a handful of incidents, protests are more often than not dealt with well by the police, only occasionally the Met **** things up for everyone.  

But if the right for peaceful protest has been diminished then what other option do people have? Roll over and submit to a path towards an authoritarian state or stand up to it? Of course it's unfair on the police who were targeted last night but it's not the protesters who they should be blaming, it's Priti Patel and her backwards, regressive cronies who cultivated the conditions for this to happen. 

[Pliskin]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

But if the right for peaceful protest has been diminished then what other option do people have? Roll over and submit to a path towards an authoritarian state or stand up to it? Of course it's unfair on the police who were targeted last night but it's not the protesters who they should be blaming, it's Priti Patel and her backwards, regressive cronies who cultivated the conditions for this to happen. 

I agree. As they say shit rolls down the hill, and this certainly is another case of that. Hopefully this is the final nail in the coffin for Priti, she’s been absolutely dreadful, and this really shows her true colours, outdated medieval policies, like you say sometimes fighting side with fire is the only way to go.  

[The Guvnor]

The scenes in Bristol cannot be described as anything but disgusting primeval unwarranted  behaviour and was truly shocking viewing.

Police officers being spat at and attacked, with the brain dead tools following the disgraceful behaviour of a few thick tw#ts who think it's acceptable to cause over a million pounds of damage to police vehicles and  a community based police station and severely injure police officers.

 

[nnfox]

The thing is, probably 1% or less of the protesters in Bristol have actually read the 307 page bill and really understand what it says and can formulate a reasoned, objective argument against it.  Most will be there because they have read some headlines in the media and discussed it with their mates and want to voice their subjective opinion.  Then there will be an element who were there because it gets them out of the house, they can have a few beers with their mates with a low chance of being prosecuted and then when they kick off and spark these ridiculous scenes, it becomes a free-for-all in disobedience.  When else can you stand a good chance of smashing up a police vehicle and assaulting officers and getting away with it?

 

Unfortunately, that minority of stupid people, give the majority of peaceful protesters a bad name and regardless of changes in the wording of the legislation, that element will always turn up and the outcomes will continue to be the same.

[twister]

1 hour ago, The Guvnor said:

The scenes in Bristol cannot be described as anything but disgusting primeval unwarranted  behaviour and was truly shocking viewing.

Police officers being spat at and attacked, with the brain dead tools following the disgraceful behaviour of a few thick tw#ts who think it's acceptable to cause over a million pounds of damage to police vehicles and  a community based police station and severely injure police officers.

 

students mostly ****ing posh at bristol uni's who the minute  they go home will call police at the first sign of trouble

 

Yet call police acab, scummy idiots the lot of them

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, nnfox said:

The thing is, probably 1% or less of the protesters in Bristol have actually read the 307 page bill and really understand what it says and can formulate a reasoned, objective argument against it.  Most will be there because they have read some headlines in the media and discussed it with their mates and want to voice their subjective opinion.  Then there will be an element who were there because it gets them out of the house, they can have a few beers with their mates with a low chance of being prosecuted and then when they kick off and spark these ridiculous scenes, it becomes a free-for-all in disobedience.  When else can you stand a good chance of smashing up a police vehicle and assaulting officers and getting away with it?

 

Unfortunately, that minority of stupid people, give the majority of peaceful protesters a bad name and regardless of changes in the wording of the legislation, that element will always turn up and the outcomes will continue to be the same.

I can understand the stance against the way things went, but I don't think the supposed ignorance of such protestors changes anything about the bill itself. It's not a nice piece of legislation, frankly.