String fellow Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 If it stops nutters like Piers Corbyn from leading protests against the current lock-down measures, it can't be all bad. I suspect that lefties would be happy to see left-wing demos continue unabated, but would like to see curbs or bans on right-wing ones. (As demonstrations and protests sometimes generate counter demonstrations and protests, we could perhaps see protesters protesting for the right to protest versus protesters protesting against the right to protest!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 6 minutes ago, String fellow said: If it stops nutters like Piers Corbyn from leading protests against the current lock-down measures, it can't be all bad. I suspect that lefties would be happy to see left-wing demos continue unabated, but would like to see curbs or bans on right-wing ones. (As demonstrations and protests sometimes generate counter demonstrations and protests, we could perhaps see protesters protesting for the right to protest versus protesters protesting against the right to protest!) And I suspect the inverse is also true. Speaking personally, while stopping protest when there is a public health crisis going on as there is now is eminently sensible, I'd argue that a slippery slope exists that wouldn't stop after Covid is over and done with, and while Piers Corbyn is a nutter and Tommy Robinson and Laurence Fox (to name two) are odious wastes of good oxygen, they should have as much right to get out into the street and shout their unsubstantiated bollocks as anyone else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 How come Bristol has recently turned into a hotbed of protesting and rioting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: How come Bristol has recently turned into a hotbed of protesting and rioting. Inbreeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 1 hour ago, String fellow said: If it stops nutters like Piers Corbyn from leading protests against the current lock-down measures, it can't be all bad. I suspect that lefties would be happy to see left-wing demos continue unabated, but would like to see curbs or bans on right-wing ones. (As demonstrations and protests sometimes generate counter demonstrations and protests, we could perhaps see protesters protesting for the right to protest versus protesters protesting against the right to protest!) As a broad spectrum, I have no doubt there are those on the left wing who want to see right wing protests shut down, but as you pointed out, the majority seem far more happy to counter protest, a much more healthier expression of voicing opposition (as long as they stay non-violent, as the majority of protestors tend to be). Authoritarians of any stripe should be fought, and authoritarian measures like the ones being passed by government should be objected to by anyone who wants to live in a free, liberal democracy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 9 minutes ago, Finnaldo said: As a broad spectrum, I have no doubt there are those on the left wing who want to see right wing protests shut down, but as you pointed out, the majority seem far more happy to counter protest, a much more healthier expression of voicing opposition (as long as they stay non-violent, as the majority of protestors tend to be). Authoritarians of any stripe should be fought, and authoritarian measures like the ones being passed by government should be objected to by anyone who wants to live in a free, liberal democracy. Absolutely. The police and home office clearly think this is a great idea, but frankly giving up our freedoms to keep them happy is not on my to do list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
String fellow Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 One of the problems with some demonstrations is that emotions can run high, which is when rational behaviour tends to go out of the window and collateral damage can occur. That's not great if you happen to caught up in the middle of it. Once the past, I've found myself inadvertently in the middle of some trouble, and it was very scary. The bottom line is that every 5 years, we have a general election, so if enough of the population don't like what the government of the day is doing, they have a simple way of getting it undone through the ballot box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 20 minutes ago, String fellow said: One of the problems with some demonstrations is that emotions can run high, which is when rational behaviour tends to go out of the window and collateral damage can occur. That's not great if you happen to caught up in the middle of it. Once the past, I've found myself inadvertently in the middle of some trouble, and it was very scary. The bottom line is that every 5 years, we have a general election, so if enough of the population don't like what the government of the day is doing, they have a simple way of getting it undone through the ballot box. Five years can be a rather long time to have to hold onto an issue. Additionally, protests can turn nasty, but I'm not altogether sure that's a good reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 17 minutes ago, String fellow said: One of the problems with some demonstrations is that emotions can run high, which is when rational behaviour tends to go out of the window and collateral damage can occur. That's not great if you happen to caught up in the middle of it. Once the past, I've found myself inadvertently in the middle of some trouble, and it was very scary. The bottom line is that every 5 years, we have a general election, so if enough of the population don't like what the government of the day is doing, they have a simple way of getting it undone through the ballot box. What you’re describing is criminal behaviour, which would happen regardless of the right to protest. Do we set an evening curfew of 5pm to stop crime when it’s most likely to happen? Stop conversations in public in case a hate crime is committed? Criminal damage committed during protests will be investigated and prosecuted by police, as they’ve said regarding Bristol today. ‘Law & Order’ should never trump personal liberties outside of extreme emergency conditions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman_Mike Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 3 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: You do get fringe groups infiltrating these things though. Makes sense to wait and see the findings before commenting properly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 3 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said: You do get fringe groups infiltrating these things though. Makes sense to wait and see the findings before commenting properly. She said: “I am not going to get into condemning protesters when we don’t know what has happened yet” What happened is that people caused lots of criminal damage and these were shown widely on TV networks. She could easily have condemned the violence. Not a difficult thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman_Mike Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 3 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: She said: “I am not going to get into condemning protesters when we don’t know what has happened yet” What happened is that people caused lots of criminal damage and these were shown widely on TV networks. She could easily have condemned the violence. Not a difficult thing to say. Maybe it just goes without saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 7 hours ago, Lionator said: But if the right for peaceful protest has been diminished then what other option do people have? Roll over and submit to a path towards an authoritarian state or stand up to it? Of course it's unfair on the police who were targeted last night but it's not the protesters who they should be blaming, it's Priti Patel and her backwards, regressive cronies who cultivated the conditions for this to happen. It wasn't Priti Patel who tried to set fire to police cars with actual human beings inside. Yes, politicians escalated this situation but folk need to also take responsibility for their own actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 1 minute ago, Foxy_Bear said: folk need to also take responsibility for their own actions. Nahhhh, it's always someone else's fault when people do bad stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 6 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said: You do get fringe groups infiltrating these things though. Makes sense to wait and see the findings before commenting properly. On BBC News, the reporter showed a load of small rocks that had been thrown. Apparently, a vast number of them had been thrown at police and buildings. That strongly suggests some preplanning by a fringe group - though I daresay other idiots then got involved spontaneously, wanting to attack the police. I agree with @UpTheLeagueFoxon this one. There seems to be ample evidence to condemn those protesters who resorted to violence - no excuse for hurling rocks, causing serious injuries & burning vans without severe provocation. The police could be criticised for their OTT response at Clapham, but this one seems to be on a violent element among the protesters. Only 7 arrests on the day, I think, and no rumours of police brutality....doesn't point to police culpability. Nadia Whittome seems to be kneejerk leftist. I much prefer the response of Marvin Rees, the Labour Mayor of Bristol....not least in pointing out that such violence only damages the campaign against the Police & Crime Bill: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-riots-mayor-marvin-rees-5211662 "Bristol Mayor Marvin Rees appeared on Good Morning Britain this morning where he described the people involved in last night's events as "self-indulgent, selfish and self-centered". He said: "What they have done has nothing to do with the bill and, in fact, as everyone has pointed out and as I pointed out yesterday, it will be used as evidence by people who want to support the bill. "They have no strategy, they have no connection to any real politics - it is just them taking the opportunity to express their emotions, whatever distorted source they have". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 5 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said: It wasn't Priti Patel who tried to set fire to police cars with actual human beings inside. Yes, politicians escalated this situation but folk need to also take responsibility for their own actions. 4 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: Nahhhh, it's always someone else's fault when people do bad stuff. ...while actually still also looking at the reason for the protest in the first place rather than being distracted by some idiots kicking off. Just like Extinction Rebellion being prats doesn't mean the average temperature of the Earth isn't increasing with all the trouble that entails, some idiocy in the streets now doesn't mean that the Policing Bill isn't trouble itself either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: ...while actually still also looking at the reason for the protest in the first place rather than being distracted by some idiots kicking off. Just like Extinction Rebellion being prats doesn't mean the average temperature of the Earth isn't increasing with all the trouble that entails, some idiocy in the streets now doesn't mean that the Policing Bill isn't trouble itself either. I completely agree with why they were protesting. I don't agree with them doing it during a pandemic but they have the right to and the choose to exercise it. That doesn't take away the fact that people within that protest genuinely tried to murder police officers. Not only does that take precedence in my opinion but it's hypocritical of why they were actually protesting in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 58 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said: You do get fringe groups infiltrating these things though. Makes sense to wait and see the findings before commenting properly. It's not hard to condemn violence at protests for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 23 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said: I completely agree with why they were protesting. I don't agree with them doing it during a pandemic but they have the right to and the choose to exercise it. That doesn't take away the fact that people within that protest genuinely tried to murder police officers. Not only does that take precedence in my opinion but it's hypocritical of why they were actually protesting in the first place. I on the other hand completely agree with why they were protesting, and don't believe a pandemic should stop them doing so if they wish. I agree with your last statement completely. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 2 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said: It wasn't Priti Patel who tried to set fire to police cars with actual human beings inside. Yes, politicians escalated this situation but folk need to also take responsibility for their own actions. Priti Patels actions have far more far reaching power than any of those protesters last night. I don’t think you realise how dangerous this person is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: Nahhhh, it's always someone else's fault when people do bad stuff. While we all have personal responsibility, yes we respond to others actions based on our own social/moral compass. I’m sure if an elected left wing Home Secretary took away some of your rights, you’d be equally as frustrated. I’d be interested if you share that opinion on people who experience trauma and abuse from others who then go on and be disruptive in their own later life. Or is it always the victims fault?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 2 hours ago, Stuntman_Mike said: Maybe it just goes without saying? If you are not saying it as a politician, then you are either complicit or a coward. The right to protest is critical, we must condemn the violence in such scenarios without damning the protestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 22 March 2021 Share Posted 22 March 2021 (edited) Such an incredible irony that a so-called protest against tightening down on protesting resulted in a chaotic riot with police getting injured and police stations getting smashed up Yet another fookin example of the mess that is contemporary Britain You couldn’t make it up Edited 22 March 2021 by Col city fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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