Also in the news

[Free Falling Foxes]

4 hours ago, brucey said:

https://istheshipstillstuck.com/

On the news and on your link they call it Ever Given.

We may not have any maritime experts on the forum, but at least we can read.

[Free Falling Foxes]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

It was in an RE lesson and they were apparently discussing blasphemy. However, it doesn't really matter - no teacher should be in fear of their life because they showed a picture in class. The parents protesting outside the gates need to grow up and start acting like adults.

Pity Monty Python didn't do 'The life of Abdul'

 

'He's not the prophet, he's a very naughty boy. Now piss off!'

 

That would really would have put the Hijab amongst the prayer mats.

Edited 26 March 2021 by Free Falling Foxes

[urban.spaceman]

The Batley incident is chillingly familiar:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/08/samuel-paty-how-a-teenagers-lie-sparked-a-tragic-chain-of-events

 

Teacher has a lesson about freedom of expression; student is offended and tells parents; parents stoke outrage in local community; outrage expands and reaches the ears of extremists; extremist behead teacher; student turns out to have lied.

 

I would suggest that there are some among the protesters who know exactly what they're doing. Take offence at something you didn't even witness and make sure to spread the news about it as wide as possible.

 

There's already a petition on Change.org naming the teacher and demanding their sacking with about 1000 signatures so far. The comments have people demanding extra "punishment" and "consequences". A charity, hilariously called "Purpose of Life" also named the teacher and has gone on international radio and TV news to say how offended he is.

 

If a teacher has to go into police protection because he's alleged to have shown a cartoon then he isn't the one in the wrong in this situation.

[brucey]

2 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

On the news and on your link they call it Ever Given.

We may not have any maritime experts on the forum, but at least we can read.

If you're referring to 'Evergreen' plastered on the side of the ship, that's the parent company's name. 

 

Edited 26 March 2021 by brucey

[Free Falling Foxes]

14 minutes ago, brucey said:

If you're referring to 'Evergreen' plastered on the side of the ship, that's the parent company's name. 

 

Ahh, I stand corrected.

Looks like the name of the ship is painted in letters about the same size as the digger that's trying to get it out.

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

The Batley incident is chillingly familiar:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/08/samuel-paty-how-a-teenagers-lie-sparked-a-tragic-chain-of-events

 

Teacher has a lesson about freedom of expression; student is offended and tells parents; parents stoke outrage in local community; outrage expands and reaches the ears of extremists; extremist behead teacher; student turns out to have lied.

 

I would suggest that there are some among the protesters who know exactly what they're doing. Take offence at something you didn't even witness and make sure to spread the news about it as wide as possible.

 

There's already a petition on Change.org naming the teacher and demanding their sacking with about 1000 signatures so far. The comments have people demanding extra "punishment" and "consequences". A charity, hilariously called "Purpose of Life" also named the teacher and has gone on international radio and TV news to say how offended he is.

 

If a teacher has to go into police protection because he's alleged to have shown a cartoon then he isn't the one in the wrong in this situation.

Long past the time when all religions should have gone into the dustbin of history. Seems to be getting worse rather than better though.

Edited 26 March 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Pity Monty Python didn't do 'The life of Abdul'

 

'He's not the prophet, he's a very naughty boy. Now piss off!'

 

That would really would have put the Hijab amongst the prayer mats.

Interesting point. Had that happened, most of the MP cast would be either threatened with death or prosecuted, in today's society. Can you imagine the hysterical outrage among certain sections of our multicultural "tolerant" population?

Tolerance works both ways. Jumping on a bandwagon is entirely intolerant simply because there's a trigger that some will grab and run with regardless of the actual fact of the matter. The Bristol protest is a good example.

Seems to me that those who are "outraged" have some kind of grudge in the first place. 

Edited 26 March 2021 by Parafox

[Dahnsouff]

23 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Long past the time when all religions should have gone into the dustbin of history. Seems to be getting worse rather than better though.

It’s not religion, it’s people. Religion is a mechanism for manipulation, not the cause of it.

[Parafox]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

It’s not religion, it’s people. Religion is a mechanism for manipulation, not the cause of it.

When you look at all the religions out there, it definitely seems to be that most use indoctrination to manipulate their followers, at least that's my opinion and there's folk on here such as Benguin who will counter that with reasonable arguments against that view. Belief is belief and people believe lots of things to be true even if others believe true logic defies that belief.

Edited 26 March 2021 by Parafox

[Dahnsouff]

12 minutes ago, Parafox said:

When you look at all the religions out there, it definitely seems to be that most use indoctrination to manipulate their followers, at least that's my opinion and there's folk on here such as Benguin who will counter that with reasonable arguments against that view. Belief is belief and people believe lots of things to be true even if others believe true logic defies that belief.

Perhaps using the term dogma rather than religion, maybe more appropriate.  

[shramik]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

The Batley incident is chillingly familiar:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/08/samuel-paty-how-a-teenagers-lie-sparked-a-tragic-chain-of-events

 

Teacher has a lesson about freedom of expression; student is offended and tells parents; parents stoke outrage in local community; outrage expands and reaches the ears of extremists; extremist behead teacher; student turns out to have lied.

 

I would suggest that there are some among the protesters who know exactly what they're doing. Take offence at something you didn't even witness and make sure to spread the news about it as wide as possible.

 

There's already a petition on Change.org naming the teacher and demanding their sacking with about 1000 signatures so far. The comments have people demanding extra "punishment" and "consequences". A charity, hilariously called "Purpose of Life" also named the teacher and has gone on international radio and TV news to say how offended he is.

 

If a teacher has to go into police protection because he's alleged to have shown a cartoon then he isn't the one in the wrong in this situation.

But freedom of expression comes with consequence, if you want the liberty to say what you feel you have to accept the response it invokes in someone who disagrees. Whilst the reaction is completely OTT, it's expected. We know this stirs this type of reaction, without the detail of the incident that happened here could they not have had a healthy debate without showing the image? (if they did so, that is..). Sadly we always come back to this situation about the prophet, I find it hard to understand why we keep stoking the fires, If I went into a Catholic school and starting spouting the immaculate conception was BS would it stir a reaction with the parents? Same goes for going into a Jewish school and telling the Jesus was the son of god.. again probably wouldn't stir up such a angry reaction, but it would create some sort of reaction.

 

I appreciate that different people and religions may think it's ok to take the pi$$ out of there own religion but it doesn't mean others are willing to. I don't believe in god, but I accept and respect the faith that others have, and really don't see the point in trying to impose my view on to theirs, and expect the same treatment back.

 

[Parafox]

4 minutes ago, shramik said:

But freedom of expression comes with consequence, if you want the liberty to say what you feel you have to accept the response it invokes in someone who disagrees. Whilst the reaction is completely OTT, it's expected. We know this stirs this type of reaction, without the detail of the incident that happened here could they not have had a healthy debate without showing the image? (if they did so, that is..). Sadly we always come back to this situation about the prophet, I find it hard to understand why we keep stoking the fires, If I went into a Catholic school and starting spouting the immaculate conception was BS would it stir a reaction with the parents? Same goes for going into a Jewish school and telling the Jesus was the son of god.. again probably wouldn't stir up such a angry reaction, but it would create some sort of reaction.

 

I appreciate that different people and religions may think it's ok to take the pi$$ out of there own religion but it doesn't mean others are willing to. I don't believe in god, but I accept and respect the faith that others have, and really don't see the point in trying to impose my view on to theirs, and expect the same treatment back.

 

And thereby, hangs the problem. You make some good points. It's not necessarily "religion" or "belief" that's created the pseudo outrage in this but more likely generated by those that have some kind of grudge, as I have already said. Bandwagon jumping IMO.

Edited 26 March 2021 by Parafox

[ClaphamFox]

24 minutes ago, shramik said:

But freedom of expression comes with consequence, if you want the liberty to say what you feel you have to accept the response it invokes in someone who disagrees. Whilst the reaction is completely OTT, it's expected. We know this stirs this type of reaction, without the detail of the incident that happened here could they not have had a healthy debate without showing the image? (if they did so, that is..). Sadly we always come back to this situation about the prophet, I find it hard to understand why we keep stoking the fires, If I went into a Catholic school and starting spouting the immaculate conception was BS would it stir a reaction with the parents? Same goes for going into a Jewish school and telling the Jesus was the son of god.. again probably wouldn't stir up such a angry reaction, but it would create some sort of reaction.

 

I appreciate that different people and religions may think it's ok to take the pi$$ out of there own religion but it doesn't mean others are willing to. I don't believe in god, but I accept and respect the faith that others have, and really don't see the point in trying to impose my view on to theirs, and expect the same treatment back.

 

The school in Batley is not a Muslim school - it's a co-educational free school.

 

We don't have blasphemy laws in the UK, so we don't have to adhere to Muslim prohibitions on free expression just because they regard something as blasphemous. Freedom of expression is a fundamental value - we should not abandon it at the behest of religious zealots.

 

If the cartoon were projected onto public buildings in every city in the UK and left there for several months, maybe those zealots would finally accept that free speech is a fact of life in the UK and that they have no business trying to suppress it.

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Ahh, I stand corrected.

Looks like the name of the ship is painted in letters about the same size as the digger that's trying to get it out.

Did you think every P&O ferry was just called P&O  

[Buce]

4 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Pity Monty Python didn't do 'The life of Abdul'

 

'He's not the prophet, he's a very naughty boy. Now piss off!'

 

That would really would have put the Hijab amongst the prayer mats.

 

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

Interesting point. Had that happened, most of the MP cast would be either threatened with death or prosecuted, in today's society. Can you imagine the hysterical outrage among certain sections of our multicultural "tolerant" population?

Tolerance works both ways. Jumping on a bandwagon is entirely intolerant simply because there's a trigger that some will grab and run with regardless of the actual fact of the matter. The Bristol protest is a good example.

Seems to me that those who are "outraged" have some kind of grudge in the first place. 

 

The MP cast were threatened with death, many cinema's wouldn't show it for fear of contravening blasphamy laws, pickets outside cinema's that did, and there were threats of legal action.

 

By outraged Christians.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2046493/Monty-Pythons-Life-Of-Brian-caused-uproar-release-BBC-drama-reveals.html

 

But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way of an old-fashioned witch-hunt.

[Parafox]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

The MP cast were threatened with death, many cinema's wouldn't show it for fear of contravening blasphamy laws, pickets outside cinema's that did, and there were threats of legal action.

 

By outraged Christians.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2046493/Monty-Pythons-Life-Of-Brian-caused-uproar-release-BBC-drama-reveals.html

 

But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way of an old-fashioned witch-hunt.

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

The school in Batley is not a Muslim school - it's a co-educational free school.

 

We don't have blasphemy laws in the UK, so we don't have to adhere to Muslim prohibitions on free expression just because they regard something as blasphemous. Freedom of expression is a fundamental value - we should not abandon it at the behest of religious zealots.

 

If the cartoon were projected onto public buildings in every city in the UK and left there for several months, maybe those zealots would finally accept that free speech is a fact of life in the UK and that they have no business trying to suppress it.

But doesn’t a free society and freedom expression mean you can speak against it ? Saw pictures of the protest, it’s not a mob, it’s a group stood together outside the school protesting. Anything further then that is obviously wrong. However, if they choose to protest it, it’s part of that free right to do so. 
 

In any case, it’s a lot of opinions on both sides but no one, apart from the students know the context of the class and use of the pictures. Those children (both Muslim and non Muslim) have started a petition to defend their teacher. It’s the adults with no actual knowledge of the situation (again, on both sides) who are having the “battle”. 

[Countryfox]

Just stopped work for a sarnie and a coffee ..   opened paper ..  whizzed past COVID stuff and then saw yet another bloody picture of that dog attacking the seal pup .. thought that would be it as it has been shown every day since it happened ..  hate seeing it ..  and just can’t understand why all people seem to want to do is take pictures and not help ..    shuffled forward a few pages to see pic of 18 year old mother who went on a bender for 6 days whilst her baby died of dehydration and starvation ..  put paper down. ..  😟

[Free Falling Foxes]

Apparently,there is no further action being taken against the owner of that dog, a barrister. I'm sure that played no part in the decision.

 

The mother who left her child, well, I found that too upsetting to read fully.

 

Understand you putting the paper down - too depressing. Thing is though, it sells. There was a good news only paper published a few years ago.It didn't last long.

[RowlattsFox]

I don't know much about the reasons for the violence but why isn't anyone talking about what's happening in Myanmar. Just read a bit on Twitter and it seems utter madness.

 

We see ridiculously over the top complaints about how the police handle protesters in the last few weeks. Imagine if they'd killed 100 of them in a day. 

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

I don't know much about the reasons for the violence but why isn't anyone talking about what's happening in Myanmar. Just read a bit on Twitter and it seems utter madness.

 

We see ridiculously over the top complaints about how the police handle protesters in the last few weeks. Imagine if they'd killed 100 of them in a day. 

It is madness, yeah. And from what I can tell, it's because the military simply decided that the governance of the country wasn't what they'd like so they just waltzed in and took over. Evidently a lot of folks thought that was out of order.

 

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical or judgemental here, but maybe the reason that people aren't really talking about it much is because firstly it's "out of sight" and therefore "out of mind" - there's a lot of brutality that happens every day in the world, sadly - and secondly because some people think that such brutality is something that just "happens" in a country like Myanmar, and not a "civilised" country like the UK.

[nnfox]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

It is madness, yeah. And from what I can tell, it's because the military simply decided that the governance of the country wasn't what they'd like so they just waltzed in and took over. Evidently a lot of folks thought that was out of order.

 

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical or judgemental here, but maybe the reason that people aren't really talking about it much is because firstly it's "out of sight" and therefore "out of mind" - there's a lot of brutality that happens every day in the world, sadly - and secondly because some people think that such brutality is something that just "happens" in a country like Myanmar, and not a "civilised" country like the UK.

And thirdly (to chip my overly cynical and judgemental opinion in), the media aren't really talking about it because it's an unrelatable problem and won't get clicks and views.  And finally us UK citizens need to have our sense of perspective kept in check - why push an ongoing tragedy where children are being killed in their own home by their own military forces when that might divert from 6 day coverage and hysteria around a woman being arrested at a protest, given a fine and allowed to go home half an hour later.  

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, nnfox said:

And thirdly (to chip my overly cynical and judgemental opinion in), the media aren't really talking about it because it's an unrelatable problem and won't get clicks and views.  And finally us UK citizens need to have our sense of perspective kept in check - why push an ongoing tragedy where children are being killed in their own home by their own military forces when that might divert from 6 day coverage and hysteria around a woman being arrested at a protest, given a fine and allowed to go home half an hour later.  

I'd say that perhaps there's a bit more to it than that - like a woman being (allegedly) murdered by a person in a position of trust that highlights some things that might still need to change in UK society - but yes, definitely with you on the broader point of media-created distractions.

[CosbehFox]

On the Myanmar point and the lack of coverage, it’s something what I find sad is how our media and in particular the BBC stepped away from such international coverage. 
 

Growing up in the 90s, there was larger coverage in International affairs where the BBC would have its correspondents dotted around across the globe. As a result, it felt like the UK was more educated and informed. 
 

Obviously the BBC had to become more commercial and the money was spent elsewhere but I do wonder if it’s led to the increase in an insular outlook of the world 

[Dunge]

I think part of the problem with the situation in Myanmar is simply a question of “what’s to be done about it?” Similar with the Uighur Muslim community in China, we in the West can try to report and highlight, but what effect will it have? Particularly if, as seems to be the case, the Myanmar military are being supported by Russia and probably China. Ultimately they don’t care about the lives of the populace as long as they have power themselves. The West don’t look likely to step and be military interventionists any time soon, and Putin knows that.

 

So the people can’t rise up, the West won’t step in and the military don’t care as long as they have power, in which Russia will happily back them in exchange for alliance - and nor does Putin care about the people of Myanmar of course, to complete the circle.

 

So it’s not that it hasn’t been reported what’s happening there, or that we don’t agree it’s terrible and condemn it. I think the wider issue is that there isn’t much, if anything, that we can do about it.