The Politics Thread 2020

[Gordon the Great]

14 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Conservative lead slashed to six points in latest poll.

 

 

Blimey! At this rate the howible  torwies  will only win the next election by about 40 seats!

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Stoopid]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Didn't know it was a crime to hate Scotland! 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

It passed. 

 

 

Sinister.

[Buce]

 

Exports to EU plunge by £5.6bn in first month since Brexit

Fall of 40.7% comes as UK economy in January shrinks by most since first wave of Covid pandemic

 

Exports of UK goods to the EU plunged by 40.7% in January during the first month since Brexit and the toughest Covid lockdown since the first wave of the pandemic, driving the biggest monthly decline in British trade for more than 20 years.

In the first month since leaving the EU on terms agreed by Boris Johnson’s government, the Office for National Statistics said goods exports to the bloc fell by £5.6bn, as imports fell by 28.8%, or £6.6bn.

 

After stockpiling and disruption at UK borders in the run-up to the Brexit transition, the decline also came as the economy shrank the most in January since the first wave of the pandemic, with gross domestic product (GDP) falling 2.9% from the level in December.

The ONS said the global decline in imports and exports of about a fifth, driven by falling trade with the EU – the UK’s single biggest trading partner – contributed to the worst monthly performance since records began in 1997.

Although January’s GDP figure represents the biggest economic contraction since the first lockdown almost a year ago, analysts had forecast a bigger decline of 4.9%, suggesting that businesses and households adapted better to harsh restrictions than during the first wave of the pandemic, when GDP fell by more than 20% in April 2020.

Experts said the scale of the decline in January trade was unlikely to be permanent because there was evidence companies stockpiled goods before the Brexit deadline, meaning they would not need to send as many shipments as usual in January.

The closure of shops during the Covid-19 lockdown also reduced demand for shipments of clothing, while car production fell and exports were weak to EU countries with coronavirus restrictions.

However, although the government has admitted that “teething problems” at the start of the new relationship have affected cross-border trade, business leaders are warning that lengthier delivery times and higher costs are likely to remain as an endemic feature of Brexit.

The government on Thursday was forced to delay the introduction of further post-Brexit import checks by six months – a U-turn because a network of 30 border posts being built to process incoming goods would not have been ready on time.

A government spokesman said a “unique combination of factors” including Covid lockdowns across Europe, stockpiling last year and business adjusting to the new trade relationship made it inevitable that exports to the EU would fall in January.

“This data does not reflect the overall EU–UK trading relationship post Brexit and, thanks to the hard work of hauliers and traders, overall freight volumes between the UK and the EU have been back to their normal levels since the start of February,” he said.

“Many businesses have adapted well, and our focus now is on making sure that any business that is still facing challenges gets the support they need to trade effectively with the EU.”

[Scotch]

12 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Sinister.

Is this a serious opinion or sarcasm? 

[Sharpe's Fox]

14 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Of course this gets swept under the rug because the target of her ire was on the left. If a left wing MP had called Liz Kendall a silly cow it would have been portrayed as a moral failure of Jeremy Corbyn personally. 

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

Is this a serious opinion or sarcasm? 

Serious opinion.

[Scotch]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Serious opinion.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you find "sinister" about it? 

[urban.spaceman]

12 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

If you don't mind me asking, what do you find "sinister" about it? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56364821

 

Under the bill, offences are considered "aggravated" - which could influence sentencing - if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics (sometimes described as "intersex" physical or biological characteristics).

It also creates new offences of "stirring up hatred" - which previously applied only to race - and abolishes the offence of blasphemy which has not been prosecuted in Scotland for more than 175 years.

 

Basically, 'stirring up hatred' is extremely vague and open to interpretation. It also deliberately ignores intent, making it very open to malicious complaints. You could be prosecuted for innocent comments made in your own home, were they perceived by the complainant, or a judge, to be 'stirring up hatred'. It also criminalises the arts, which means if someone doesn't like a joke by a comedian or a scene in a play, they could have the performer/writer prosecuted. It essentially criminalises Salman Rushdie, Monty Python or Charlie Hebdo. 

[bovril]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Exports to EU plunge by £5.6bn in first month since Brexit

Fall of 40.7% comes as UK economy in January shrinks by most since first wave of Covid pandemic

 

Exports of UK goods to the EU plunged by 40.7% in January during the first month since Brexit and the toughest Covid lockdown since the first wave of the pandemic, driving the biggest monthly decline in British trade for more than 20 years.

In the first month since leaving the EU on terms agreed by Boris Johnson’s government, the Office for National Statistics said goods exports to the bloc fell by £5.6bn, as imports fell by 28.8%, or £6.6bn.

 

After stockpiling and disruption at UK borders in the run-up to the Brexit transition, the decline also came as the economy shrank the most in January since the first wave of the pandemic, with gross domestic product (GDP) falling 2.9% from the level in December.

The ONS said the global decline in imports and exports of about a fifth, driven by falling trade with the EU – the UK’s single biggest trading partner – contributed to the worst monthly performance since records began in 1997.

Although January’s GDP figure represents the biggest economic contraction since the first lockdown almost a year ago, analysts had forecast a bigger decline of 4.9%, suggesting that businesses and households adapted better to harsh restrictions than during the first wave of the pandemic, when GDP fell by more than 20% in April 2020.

Experts said the scale of the decline in January trade was unlikely to be permanent because there was evidence companies stockpiled goods before the Brexit deadline, meaning they would not need to send as many shipments as usual in January.

The closure of shops during the Covid-19 lockdown also reduced demand for shipments of clothing, while car production fell and exports were weak to EU countries with coronavirus restrictions.

However, although the government has admitted that “teething problems” at the start of the new relationship have affected cross-border trade, business leaders are warning that lengthier delivery times and higher costs are likely to remain as an endemic feature of Brexit.

The government on Thursday was forced to delay the introduction of further post-Brexit import checks by six months – a U-turn because a network of 30 border posts being built to process incoming goods would not have been ready on time.

A government spokesman said a “unique combination of factors” including Covid lockdowns across Europe, stockpiling last year and business adjusting to the new trade relationship made it inevitable that exports to the EU would fall in January.

“This data does not reflect the overall EU–UK trading relationship post Brexit and, thanks to the hard work of hauliers and traders, overall freight volumes between the UK and the EU have been back to their normal levels since the start of February,” he said.

“Many businesses have adapted well, and our focus now is on making sure that any business that is still facing challenges gets the support they need to trade effectively with the EU.”

Taken back a bit too much control. 

[Dunge]

4 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56364821

 

Under the bill, offences are considered "aggravated" - which could influence sentencing - if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics (sometimes described as "intersex" physical or biological characteristics).

It also creates new offences of "stirring up hatred" - which previously applied only to race - and abolishes the offence of blasphemy which has not been prosecuted in Scotland for more than 175 years.

 

Basically, 'stirring up hatred' is extremely vague and open to interpretation. It also deliberately ignores intent, making it very open to malicious complaints. You could be prosecuted for innocent comments made in your own home, were they perceived by the complainant, or a judge, to be 'stirring up hatred'. It also criminalises the arts, which means if someone doesn't like a joke by a comedian or a scene in a play, they could have the performer/writer prosecuted. It essentially criminalises Salman Rushdie, Monty Python or Charlie Hebdo. 

I had a read about it on the BBC website yesterday and had similar concerns.

 

I think the thing that summarised it to me was when it had to be said (paraphrasing):

”Don’t worry, this law will be used appropriately.”

If that has to be said, it’s usually a sign of bad legislation, however noble the intention. Anti-terror legislation and VAR were both introduced with the best of intentions. The problem is that someone can come along and misuse them for another reason and the legislation backs them up on it.

[leicsmac]

It's such a difficult circle to square, especially when proving intent in such matters is so hard too.

 

I think it is obvious that there are people more vulnerable than others that are open to attack (and "sticks and stones" is such a dangerous fallacy) by those with more social power than them, there is a social obligation to defend them, and the best and often only way to defend them is through legislation. At the same time, throwing the baby out with the bathwater and criminalising entirely innocent statements is a real problem.

 

There doesn't seem to be any easy solution.

[LiberalFox]

43 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56364821

 

Under the bill, offences are considered "aggravated" - which could influence sentencing - if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics (sometimes described as "intersex" physical or biological characteristics).

It also creates new offences of "stirring up hatred" - which previously applied only to race - and abolishes the offence of blasphemy which has not been prosecuted in Scotland for more than 175 years.

 

Basically, 'stirring up hatred' is extremely vague and open to interpretation. It also deliberately ignores intent, making it very open to malicious complaints. You could be prosecuted for innocent comments made in your own home, were they perceived by the complainant, or a judge, to be 'stirring up hatred'. It also criminalises the arts, which means if someone doesn't like a joke by a comedian or a scene in a play, they could have the performer/writer prosecuted. It essentially criminalises Salman Rushdie, Monty Python or Charlie Hebdo. 

 

It doesn't ignore intent, intent has to be proven. None of those examples would be criminal. No idea if this is good or necessary legislation btw. 

 

[Scotch]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56364821

 

Under the bill, offences are considered "aggravated" - which could influence sentencing - if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics (sometimes described as "intersex" physical or biological characteristics).

It also creates new offences of "stirring up hatred" - which previously applied only to race - and abolishes the offence of blasphemy which has not been prosecuted in Scotland for more than 175 years.

 

Basically, 'stirring up hatred' is extremely vague and open to interpretation. It also deliberately ignores intent, making it very open to malicious complaints. You could be prosecuted for innocent comments made in your own home, were they perceived by the complainant, or a judge, to be 'stirring up hatred'. It also criminalises the arts, which means if someone doesn't like a joke by a comedian or a scene in a play, they could have the performer/writer prosecuted. It essentially criminalises Salman Rushdie, Monty Python or Charlie Hebdo. 

The thing is though.... There is nothing new here. All these offenses exist and have done for quite some time. All this legislation has done is increase the number of people and minority groups that it applies to. 

 

You can still speak out against homosexuality or race or any other thing that you wish to speak out against, you just can't single someone out and abuse them or discriminate against them on such topics. 

 

As for "stirring up" hatred within your home, I really can't see that being an issue as it seems almost impossible to prove in a court of law. 

 

As for the theatrical side of it, I'm almost certain that, that was dropped before the final proposition. 

[bovril]

Amazing really how that Brexit story generates such little interest compared to Megxit. We've kneecapped our economy and nobody cares. Luv this country. 

[bovril]

I swear we could have empty shelves in the middle of summer and people will be debating whether the fifteenth re-release of '3 Lions' is white supremacist propaganda. 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Amazing really how that Brexit story generates such little interest compared to Megxit. We've kneecapped our economy and nobody cares. Luv this country. 

We’ve got the Policing Bill which has gone under the radar 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

8 hours ago, bovril said:

Amazing really how that Brexit story generates such little interest compared to Megxit. We've kneecapped our economy and nobody cares. Luv this country. 

It was wall-to-wall coverage, day after endless day, as people tried to frustrate democracy, between the actual Brexit vote and the 2019 GE.

I suspect most of the moderates (I consider myself in that as someone who voted remain but not a remoaner) are willing to give it a chance and hope it succeeds and not shouting it down at every twist and turn at this very early stage of proceedings.

Megxit is the story of the week and something else will replace it before too long.

[WigstonWanderer]

21 hours ago, Buce said:

 

In the first month since leaving the EU on terms agreed by Boris Johnson’s government, the Office for National Statistics said goods exports to the bloc fell by £5.6bn, as imports fell by 28.8%, or £6.6bn.

 

 

Probably be regarded as a victory by Brexiteers.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Probably be regarded as a victory by Brexiteers.

I mean are we are not going to acknowledge that we are in the middle of a pandemic. People are locked in their homes, some on 80% wages, businesses suspended trading but yeah it’s all about brexit.

I’m not suggesting the delays haven’t attributed to the figures but we have no idea how much is down to what and probably never will.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I mean are we are not going to acknowledge that we are in the middle of a pandemic. People are locked in their homes, some on 80% wages, businesses suspended trading but yeah it’s all about brexit.

I’m not suggesting the delays haven’t attributed to the figures but we have no idea how much is down to what and probably never will.

 

Covid has been a Godsend to the govt in that regard.

[Strokes]

15 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Covid has been a Godsend to the govt in that regard.

We should have let the EU take all our Astra Zeneca vaccination jabs, then our export figures would have looked great.

[CosbehFox]

I often work at an airport for work and was in a meeting last week where representatives from two companies mentioned how the ‘double tax’ was hurting them badly. 
 

Even their own kit which is being sent to Ireland for example and assist in the mechanical maintenance of planes is getting doubled. 
 

Was no surprise to see the Freeport announcement about a week after that conversation