Cancel Culture

[leicsmac]

Anyhow, I'm going to repeat an earlier point here:

 

A lot of the fear and criticism of cancel culture, at a fundamental level comes down to a reasonably simple argument - "I have the power to belittle other people over any aspect of themselves (and praise those who have belittled in the past) and get by with it. I like that power, and now people are trying to take it away from me and I can't do it any more. That must mean that - *gasp* - they want that same power over me instead, and I'm afraid! Because that's the only way I understand how social interactions work, and it can't possibly be because some folks simply want a kinder world."

 

When you're a hammer, everything else looks like a nail - or another hammer.

 

NB. Of course, #notallcancelculturecomplainees

 

 

Edited 11 June 2020 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Washington, Jefferson, Mount Rushmore?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40978515

The Don in slippery slope fallacy shocker.

 

Saying too much is going to get done without a hint of nuance is just an excuse to do nothing.

[WigstonWanderer]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The Don in slippery slope fallacy shocker.

 

Saying too much is going to get done without a hint of nuance is just an excuse to do nothing.

But there is a serious point here. Where do you draw the line? I don’t have a convincing answer, and am not comfortable with slavers having statues, but at some point you have to accept that times, attitudes and values were different.

Edited 11 June 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

But there is a serious point here. Where do you draw the line?

...where the legacy of a person was involved more in acts of creating and uniting a country than in acts of oppression (or supporting oppression). No one with a modicum of sense or political clout is suggesting going after Washington or Lincoln (or indeed Churchill, among others) because even though they contributed to an oppressive system at the time and held views indicative of that system, the positive work they did vastly outweighs the negative. Confederate generals, however, have only one facet to their legacy - supporting a nascent nation that wanted to continue the practice of chattel slavery. They have precious little "good" work to make up for it. (I do have some sympathy from the POV that they were "just following orders" eg. they may well have believed in "states rights" rather than in the primacy of slavery per se and felt they had to lead rather than wanting to, but that isn't mitigating IMO.)

 

There is a significant difference and that is reasonably obvious - but evidently either that isn't being communicated well, some folks are deliberately ignoring it in order to push the slippery slope fallacy and block change, or both.

 

Of course, the argument might be made that history is written by the winners and so this idea of "good" and "bad" works is entirely subjective, but then that is always so, everywhere.

 

NB. Just to make this absolutely clear, historical legacies shouldn't be erased - not ever. But then the legacies of people like slave-owners and Confederate generals shouldn't be lionised, either - and like it or not a statue almost always implies lionisation. Leave those legacies in museums.

Edited 11 June 2020 by leicsmac

[The Horse's Mouth]

Cant believe people died for this 

[Guest TamworthFoxes]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I'll preface the following sentence by saying post-Macpherson Report some really massive steps have been made...

 

In an ideal world the above would be true - but it is isn't and it's not, in probably a few cases in the UK and in vastly more in the US.

When a person is arrested (which the police require grounds for), there are two disposal options, 1) release NFA (no further action/no charges) or 2) charge/caution. Now the stats previously provided show arrests only, if the figures for disposal were available then a case could be made for institutional police racism ie lots more black arrests with NFA at the end could suggest racism in that black people are frivolously arrested but not charged. 
However in the absence of more detailed figures the stats suggest (as much as people won’t like to admit it) that black people commit more crime. 
 

[Dahnsouff]

So this once in a generation opportunity to hold meaningful discussion about race and the part Western Society (Lets start there) plays in its proliferation, and now we are spotting statues to displace.

This isn't some righteous groups of iconoclasts, this is just ridiculous derailing of a righteous cause.

[Lionator]

They’ve deleted several episodes of its Always Sunny off of Netflix, which hurts because a) it’s my favourite show b) the actors are the biggest lefties going and the ‘offensive’ stuff they’ve done is to highlight the racist idiots in society. 

[Pliskin]

14 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So this once in a generation opportunity to hold meaningful discussion about race and the part Western Society (Lets start there) plays in its proliferation, and now we are spotting statues to displace.

This isn't some righteous groups of iconoclasts, this is just ridiculous derailing of a righteous cause.

Fantastic paragraph. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

I'm going to sell our Ceebeebies compilation DVD with the episode of the Tweenies where Milo dresses up as Jimmy Saville to a museum.

 

Wonder if they'll take a complete set of Morrissey singles off my hands as well?

 

 

 

[Pliskin]

At the moment what is happening is the cherry picking of historical events, followed by a brief look into the individual failures, thus confirming the points they are looking to put forward and then act without debate. I’ve noticed this a lot with some parts of society today, excellent at casting stones but rarely want to sit and debate incase their theories have counter arguments. 
 

Im not for one minute condoning the actions of some of the aforementioned historical figures that people are preposing to pull down, but I’m simply saying a discussion into if they should be removed over a balanced debate does not make you a racist. 
 

This whole movement is in danger of turning into a historical pissing contest, which is not why the movement started.

[Izzy]

12 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I'm going to sell our Ceebeebies compilation DVD with the episode of the Tweenies where Milo dresses up as Jimmy Saville to a museum.

 

Wonder if they'll take a complete set of Morrissey singles off my hands as well?

 

@Milo still dresses up as Jimmy Saville on a regular basis 

[Bellend Sebastian]

33 minutes ago, Izzy said:

@Milo still dresses up as Jimmy Saville on a regular basis 

I didn't assume they were the same person but you know, that makes a lot of sense.

 

In the spirit of the thread, everyone should be able to express themselves however they see fit

 

 

[AjcW]

Not had a full read through so apologies if this has been shared.

Think I had my first 'annoyed' encounter with Cancel Culture this morning. 

 

My wonder was why this https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ A well researched, well written essay.... was less welcomed than a couple of tweets written by Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watsons PR's to save face/career.

 

Is that really where we are at? Someone well respected with well researched opinions is a ****, but two celebs with 260 characters of 'support' are heroes?

I feel this bit in the essay is particularly pertinent to the current climate... 'There's Joy, Relief and Safety in conformity....'

 

[Milo]

50 minutes ago, Izzy said:

@Milo still dresses up as Jimmy Saville on a regular basis 

Haha....

 

 

🤫 

[Milo]

17 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I didn't assume they were the same person but you know, that makes a lot of sense.

 

In the spirit of the thread, everyone should be able to express themselves however they see fit

 

 

😘

[ClaphamFox]

14 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Not had a full read through so apologies if this has been shared.

Think I had my first 'annoyed' encounter with Cancel Culture this morning. 

 

My wonder was why this https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ A well researched, well written essay.... was less welcomed than a couple of tweets written by Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watsons PR's to save face/career.

 

Is that really where we are at? Someone well respected with well researched opinions is a ****, but two celebs with 260 characters of 'support' are heroes?

I feel this bit in the essay is particularly pertinent to the current climate... 'There's Joy, Relief and Safety in conformity....'

 

For a true flavour of how nasty and virtiolic the campaign against JK Rowling is, it is worth comparing the things she's written to the responses she receives from toxic, angry men:

 

JK Rowling and the trans activists

[ealingfox]

17 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Not had a full read through so apologies if this has been shared.

Think I had my first 'annoyed' encounter with Cancel Culture this morning. 

 

My wonder was why this https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ A well researched, well written essay.... was less welcomed than a couple of tweets written by Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watsons PR's to save face/career.

 

Is that really where we are at? Someone well respected with well researched opinions is a ****, but two celebs with 260 characters of 'support' are heroes?

I feel this bit in the essay is particularly pertinent to the current climate... 'There's Joy, Relief and Safety in conformity....'

 

 

 

[FerrisBueller]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

They’ve deleted several episodes of its Always Sunny off of Netflix, which hurts because a) it’s my favourite show b) the actors are the biggest lefties going and the ‘offensive’ stuff they’ve done is to highlight the racist idiots in society. 

Nooooo! Do you know which episodes? I've been watching the whole thing again recently.

[Milo]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

@Milo still dresses up as Jimmy Saville on a regular basis 

 

1 hour ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I didn't assume they were the same person but you know, that makes a lot of sense.

 

In the spirit of the thread, everyone should be able to express themselves however they see fit

 

 

Jesus. I wait years for a name check and this is what I get one for...

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Milo said:

 

Jesus. I wait years for a name check and this is what I get one for...

 

Enjoy it  

 

[jamfox]

 

The league of Gentlemen is being removed from culture   , does make me think some people have lost the plot?

 

[jamfox]

[Izzy]

Robert Baden-Powell statue to be removed in Poole

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53004638

 

Girl Guides next?

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Robert Baden-Powell statue to be removed in Poole

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53004638

 

Girl Guides next?

misogynist