Cancel Culture

[Captain...]

36 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It isn't possible to avoid affending everyone, and frankly we shouldn't be trying.  I find it offensive that you are offended by this, so please desist.

It really is easy not to offend people, especially in advertising. 

 

I'm not offended by any of this, so I'm not sure what you find offensive. 

[jamfox]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

Posted this in the other thread last week. It’s important to hear this from ‘King Liberal’ himself.

 

And he is very correct. 

 

Obama brought people together, what a charming guy its depressing to know he was replaced by trump  ,  I get a sense the modern day "woke" corbynite gang are just up for a fight because some people don't know just how completely right they are. Twitter and face book have a lot to answer for.

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Captain... said:

It really is easy not to offend people, especially in advertising. 

 

I'm not offended by any of this, so I'm not sure what you find offensive. 

People look for things to get offended by - have you never been on Twitter?

 

How would you advertise Chicken without getting complaints from people who don't want anyone to eat Chicken?

[foxfanazer]

2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

I don't think I've ever taken offence to anything.

Yes you get annoyed / frustrated / angry at things in life.

But actually "being offended"? Can't think of anything.

Me neither. I think I must be dead inside. 

 

Although I did take exception to somebody making a joke about Vichai's death not long after it happened 

[Leicester_Loyal]

If blackface is offensive, racist, whatever you want to call it, is whiteface? Will White Chicks be removed from Sky and no longer be put onto the telly? It doesn't offend me in the slightest but it may offend someone.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

If blackface is offensive, racist, whatever you want to call it, is whiteface? Will White Chicks be removed from Sky and no longer be put onto the telly? It doesn't offend me in the slightest but it may offend someone.

I'm sure someone will tell you yes, but lets be honest it isn't, because there is not much history of white people being oppressed by black people.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

3 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Me neither. I think I must be dead inside. 

Although I did take exception to somebody making a joke about Vichai's death not long after it happened 

Yes mate that stuff is disgusting and gives you a horrible shiver but I never think: "I'm offended."
People generally do like to be offended.

Be offended, then. The world keeps spinning.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

I'm sure someone will tell you yes, but lets be honest it isn't, because there is not much history of white people being oppressed by black people.

It's just an absolute minefield isn't it, someone will always be offended by something. No matter what your views are, or how 'woke' you are, you're only one 'wrong' opinion away from being slaughted by the mob.

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, Captain... said:

It really is easy not to offend people, especially in advertising. 

 

I'm not offended by any of this, so I'm not sure what you find offensive. 

IMO it's not exactly just about "offence".

 

Some folks think that "cancel culture" is just a power play, the "I find it offensive that you are offended by this, so please desist" is a way of framing that argument.

 

Now, I'm just spitballing here, but I think it might actually be possible that people are in fact looking for a little more sensitivity in communication towards and representation of other people and groups because it's a nice thing to do rather than because they secretly want the feeling of power over other peoples "free speech"  - 'cos, you know, hopefully not everyone is a power-monger.

[Lionator]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

It's just an absolute minefield isn't it, someone will always be offended by something. No matter what your views are, or how 'woke' you are, you're only one 'wrong' opinion away from being slaughted by the mob.

Remember it's not black or white either (no pun intended), if someone takes offence then it doesn't mean it's offensive, it's personal to that person. Which is why cancelling stuff, unless it's blatantly discriminatory by law, is muddy water. Also if you find yourself asking yourself is this offensive or not, then it probably will be to somebody.  

[Lionator]

11 minutes ago, jamfox said:

Obama brought people together, what a charming guy its depressing to know he was replaced by trump  ,  I get a sense the modern day "woke" corbynite gang are just up for a fight because some people don't know just how completely right they are. Twitter and face book have a lot to answer for.

Yeah this is very much an issue within Labour at the moment. You've got the Corbyn mob baying for blood that Starmer isn't on the streets, literally tearing statues down himself like Grandpa Jezza would be. 

 

Yet if you read up you can see that Starmer has done far more for human rights across the world than Corbyn could ever dream of, it's just that he doesn't shout about it to feed his moralistic ego. 

[casablancas]

My fiancée is Indian and our son is a beautiful mix of us. That being said his ‘heritage’ is half English and half English Asian. What I take from that is English. He was conceived to two English parents in England in Leicester. 
 

however he has never been seen as English outside of his family.  he is apparently ‘brown’. His first experience of what I perceive ( yes my view not a fact) of racism / discrimination came at the age of 4. It wasn’t a child asking why his skin was a different colour, or why he has lovely long eyelashes ... it was your mom is a p@k! I wasn’t angry with the child. However with the other child’s family I was furious. I don’t agree that a child can be inherently racist. But they pick it up from households and other friends who pick it up from their households. This is the issue with what people from all over are facing. I did some research into arrest rates across England. EVERY police force who submitted stats to the ONS reported that the group who suffered the highest arrest rate were those who were considered to be ‘black’. This floored me. How can every area of Britain have this problem. I woulda assumed areas of a higher density of black people MAY have had higher arrest rates whilst areas dominant of a white gene pool would have a higher arrest rate of those considered ‘white’. How all but one police force (did not submit stats) had a considerably higher arrest rate for ‘black’ people without some form of discrimination I can’t explain ... can you? 
 

We know racism is creeping back into football to the point where my son won’t play at school or for his local team ( I won’t name it) following his own experiences. But how many times this season have we seen it on motd, or live (Manchester derby) or England / Bulgaria. We have problems across this society. I don’t know the way forward , other than everyone is treated equal. We all have the same organs, bleed the same colour and are have the exact same basic needs to survive. 
 

as an aside ... I am actually scared how my family will be treated going into the near future. Particularly when I consider the fact people (in society) are complaining at a removal of a statue basically idolising the slave trade. The fact this is not fully explored at school is wrong. 
 

I read an article re: friends and how the cast would if they could have more people of colour. For me this is the lesson. We need equal opportunity for everyone. No matter creed, colour, disabilities or gender and the list goes on.  

[Izzy]

from 3:24 

 

 

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, casablancas said:

My fiancée is Indian and our son is a beautiful mix of us. That being said his ‘heritage’ is half English and half English Asian. What I take from that is English. He was bourn to two English parents in England in Leicester. 
 

however he has never been seen as English, he is apparently ‘brown’. His first experience of what I perceive ( yes my view not a fact) of racism / discrimination came at the age of 4. It wasn’t a child asking why his skin was a different colour, or why he has lovely long eyelashes ... it was your mom is a p@k! I wasn’t angry with the child. However with the other child’s family I was furious. I don’t agree that a child can be inherently racist. But they pick it up from households and other friends who pick it up from their households. This is the issue with what people from all over are facing. I did some research into arrest rates across England. EVERY police force who submitted stats to the ONS reported that the group who suffered the highest arrest rate were those who were considered to be ‘black’. This floored me. How can every area of Britain have this problem. I woulda assumed areas of a higher density of black people MAY have had higher arrest rates whilst areas dominant of a white gene pool would have a higher arrest rate of those considered ‘white’. How all but one police force (did not submit stats) had a considerably higher arrest rate for ‘black’ people without some form of discrimination I can’t explain ... can you? 
 

We know racism is creeping back into football to the point where my son won’t play at school or for his local team ( I won’t name it) following his own experiences. But how many times this season have we seen it on motd, or live (Manchester derby) or England / Bulgaria. We have problems across this society. I don’t know the way forward , other than everyone is treated equal. We all have the same organs, bleed the same colour and are have the exact same basic needs to survive. 
 

as an aside ... I am actually scared how my family will be treated going into the near future. Particularly when I consider the fact people (in society) are complaining at a removal of a statue basically idolising the slave trade. The fact this is not fully explored at school is wrong. 
 

I read an article re: friends and how the cast would if they could have more people of colour. For me this is the lesson. We need equal opportunity for everyone. No matter creed, colour, disabilities or gender and the list goes on.  

Sorry that you and your family have had such experiences. The arrest rate is exactly the sort of thing that these protests are about, the system definitely works against black people more disproportionately than others and it's about making it a level conscious playing field. I bet most of the police officers adding to these stats aren't even aware of their prejudice because it is unconscious.

 

With regard to the bit in bold, I don't feel like many actually idolise the slave trade, they know it's wrong, all they're angry about is seeing a few liberals and disadvantaged get their way.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Sorry that you and your family have had such experiences. The arrest rate is exactly the sort of thing that these protests are about, the system definitely works against black people more disproportionately than others and it's about making it a level conscious playing field. I bet most of the police officers adding to these stats aren't even aware of their prejudice because it is unconscious.

 

With regard to the bit in bold, I don't feel like many actually idolise the slave trade, they know it's wrong, all they're angry about is seeing a few liberals and disadvantaged get their way.

I don’t think that’s right at all, they’re angry that their way is being imposed by force. It’s not how we do things and that’s what’s dangerous about it.

[casablancas]

3 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Sorry that you and your family have had such experiences. The arrest rate is exactly the sort of thing that these protests are about, the system definitely works against black people more disproportionately than others and it's about making it a level conscious playing field. I bet most of the police officers adding to these stats aren't even aware of their prejudice because it is unconscious.

 

With regard to the bit in bold, I don't feel like many actually idolise the slave trade, they know it's wrong, all they're angry about is seeing a few liberals and disadvantaged get their way.

Thanks man. 
 

what I value is that people no matter what will always hold their opinions. Like I tell my son. People say what they want. It’s how you react. I think people have been marginalised for so long that it’s reaching a boiling point. It scares me. 
 

one thing I have explained to someone who didn’t agree with my child being English was. Did you know that Alfred the Great’e idea for England was a place where people of all beliefs could live together peacefully. They often have no idea how bastardised the English genetic heritage actually is. 

[nnfox]

Great Britain is one of the wealthiest and most powerful nations on earth.  This is also a nation built over centuries with shady acts littered throughout its history.  As a result, citizens here enjoy a standard of living far greater than in many parts of the world.  We can't erase it.  The utopia of a country where everybody is equal is something that will never be accomplished, but a country where everyone has equal opportunity regardless of age/gender/race/faith/disability/sexual orientation is something that can be worked towards and is something that we have taken huge steps towards over the last 30 years.  That all lies in the future though and we, as a nation, have to work together towards it.

 

Pointing out past crimes and wrongs, toppling statues, renaming buildings and so on does nothing to carry us forward and if anything reopens old wounds and takes us backwards.  It's like getting found cheating on your partner but agreeing to stay together.  A positive relationship in the future is reliant on a line being drawn and it not being constantly brought up every time you have a disagreement.  Yes, it needs discussing, it might need some compromise, there might need to be some restorative actions take place but at some point is has to be left in the past.  I'm not saying forget about it, but I am saying it is in the past and dwelling on it is not going to give anyone the desired outcome.

 

 

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

I would imagine with Bowie it's about the rumours of his underage groupies and grooming 14 ot 15 year old girls have always dogged him. Not as much of an open secret as someone like Jimmy Page or Pete Townsend, but Bowie has always been caught up in those too (all allegedly of course).

Very possibly. 

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, casablancas said:

They often have no idea how bastardised the English genetic heritage actually is. 

Spot on, I think some people even think the English language is pure but in reality it is a mish mash of colossal proportions!  

[ANDLeicester]

With all the talk about ‘erasing/ censoring history’ etc, isn’t this exactly what we have been doing for centuries? As the saying goes - History is written by the victors.
 

All our history books have been written to frame Britain, and Western Europe generally, as the good guys when we were invading countries and stripping native people of their lands. We have tried to claim we should be praised as the people that advanced civilisation. Surely this is just time for a national conversation where we accept and understand that we have committed some awful acts across the world and suppressed the development of so many other nations? 

Unfortunately, due to our past, a lot of the people we consider to be worthy of praise are not seen that way across the rest of the world. As a country it is long overdue that we take an honest look at the impacts of our history in the rest of the world. This is not to say we have to tear down every statue, just that people should be able to openly discuss the figures like Churchill from both sides of the argument without being shot down. 

 

Part of the reason the Colston statue was pulled down by protestors was that despite going through the ‘proper channels’ for years there had been no action taken. Until we start to properly discuss this can it really be a surprise that people try to instigate change by other means?

[casablancas]

2 minutes ago, ANDLeicester said:

With all the talk about ‘erasing/ censoring history’ etc, isn’t this exactly what we have been doing for centuries? As the saying goes - History is written by the victors.
 

All our history books have been written to frame Britain, and Western Europe generally, as the good guys when we were invading countries and stripping native people of their lands. We have tried to claim we should be praised as the people that advanced civilisation. Surely this is just time for a national conversation where we accept and understand that we have committed some awful acts across the world and suppressed the development of so many other nations? 

Unfortunately, due to our past, a lot of the people we consider to be worthy of praise are not seen that way across the rest of the world. As a country it is long overdue that we take an honest look at the impacts of our history in the rest of the world. This is not to say we have to tear down every statue, just that people should be able to openly discuss the figures like Churchill from both sides of the argument without being shot down. 

 

Part of the reason the Colston statue was pulled down by protestors was that despite going through the ‘proper channels’ for years there had been no action taken. Until we start to properly discuss this can it really be a surprise that people try to instigate change by other means?

That’s a very well structured argument. 

[nnfox]

32 minutes ago, casablancas said:

My fiancée is Indian and our son is a beautiful mix of us. That being said his ‘heritage’ is half English and half English Asian. What I take from that is English. He was conceived to two English parents in England in Leicester. 
 

however he has never been seen as English outside of his family.  he is apparently ‘brown’. His first experience of what I perceive ( yes my view not a fact) of racism / discrimination came at the age of 4. It wasn’t a child asking why his skin was a different colour, or why he has lovely long eyelashes ... it was your mom is a p@k! I wasn’t angry with the child. However with the other child’s family I was furious. I don’t agree that a child can be inherently racist. But they pick it up from households and other friends who pick it up from their households. This is the issue with what people from all over are facing. I did some research into arrest rates across England. EVERY police force who submitted stats to the ONS reported that the group who suffered the highest arrest rate were those who were considered to be ‘black’. This floored me. How can every area of Britain have this problem. I woulda assumed areas of a higher density of black people MAY have had higher arrest rates whilst areas dominant of a white gene pool would have a higher arrest rate of those considered ‘white’. How all but one police force (did not submit stats) had a considerably higher arrest rate for ‘black’ people without some form of discrimination I can’t explain ... can you? 
 

We know racism is creeping back into football to the point where my son won’t play at school or for his local team ( I won’t name it) following his own experiences. But how many times this season have we seen it on motd, or live (Manchester derby) or England / Bulgaria. We have problems across this society. I don’t know the way forward , other than everyone is treated equal. We all have the same organs, bleed the same colour and are have the exact same basic needs to survive. 
 

as an aside ... I am actually scared how my family will be treated going into the near future. Particularly when I consider the fact people (in society) are complaining at a removal of a statue basically idolising the slave trade. The fact this is not fully explored at school is wrong. 
 

I read an article re: friends and how the cast would if they could have more people of colour. For me this is the lesson. We need equal opportunity for everyone. No matter creed, colour, disabilities or gender and the list goes on.  

It's sad to hear about your family's experiences, it absolutely shouldn't be like that in 21st century UK.

 

I too am floored by your findings regarding the arrest rates.  Do you have the link?

[casablancas]

1 minute ago, nnfox said:

It's sad to hear about your family's experiences, it absolutely shouldn't be like that in 21st century UK.

 

I too am floored by your findings regarding the arrest rates.  Do you have the link?

Think this is 19-20. Which suggests that in general black people are i think 3 Times more likely to be arrested. Unless I have interpreted it wrong which is a worry   

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest

 

[bmt]

I do think it'd be cool to put all the statues of people with 'challenging' backgrounds in one place as a history museum. Eg you could have a museum/park about the british empire with the statues in which tells the stories of the people. I think it'd be really cool.

 

I think statues are pretty weird actually, so not too bothered about a few being pulled down. But I agree with others about it setting a bad precedent.

[nnfox]

18 minutes ago, casablancas said:

Think this is 19-20. Which suggests that in general black people are i think 3 Times more likely to be arrested. Unless I have interpreted it wrong which is a worry   

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest

 

Thank you.  I don't think you have read this wrong, the figures seem pretty straightforward.  The bit I'm not sure about though is whether these figures show that the police are systematic racists (which I don't believe they are) or it highlights broader inequality issues.  Either way, it is a surprise.