Dahnsouff Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 1 minute ago, spacemunky said: Sometimes I'm happy that I have no idea what some things are all about. Do you have a bus? Can I get on?
Nalis Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 Good topic. Some of it makes sense like the Colston statue, some doesnt. How far back do we go and how tedious does the link become before it is deemed offensive by modern standards? Also, do we rip down the Pyramids of Giza because they were built by slaves?
Charl91 Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 9 minutes ago, Captain... said: Why would you persist with an advert that offends people, even a small number? Make better adverts. Half a dozen complaints normally means hundreds/thousands of people are offended but most can't be arsed to actually complain. Because some people will be offended by nearly anything - I think you underestimate how many people like to complain about the tiniest of things. Some of the best/funniest adverts are those that are little 'on edge', and it would be a shame to lose them. In terms of the statue, I'm in the camp of "I don't mind if it comes down, but only after due process is followed", because I'm very wary of letting mob rule make these decisions, even if its decisions I can agree with.
Lionator Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 Posted this in the other thread last week. It’s important to hear this from ‘King Liberal’ himself. And he is very correct.
Dahnsouff Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 2 minutes ago, Lionator said: Posted this in the other thread last week. It’s important to hear this from ‘King Liberal’ himself. And he is very correct. Had not seen that before, so thanks. Very good.
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 I don't think I've ever taken offence to anything. Yes you get annoyed / frustrated / angry at things in life. But actually "being offended"? Can't think of anything.
Dahnsouff Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 1 minute ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: I don't think I've ever taken offence to anything. Yes you get annoyed / frustrated / angry at things in life. But actually "being offended"? Can't think of anything.
Innovindil Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 14 minutes ago, Captain... said: Why would you persist with an advert that offends people, even a small number? Make better adverts. Half a dozen complaints normally means hundreds/thousands of people are offended but most can't be arsed to actually complain. Because sometimes, they're awesome. UK's most officially complained about ad: Ironically not banned, even though it received hundreds of complaints.
Captain... Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 7 minutes ago, Charl91 said: Because some people will be offended by nearly anything - I think you underestimate how many people like to complain about the tiniest of things. Some of the best/funniest adverts are those that are little 'on edge', and it would be a shame to lose them. In terms of the statue, I'm in the camp of "I don't mind if it comes down, but only after due process is followed", because I'm very wary of letting mob rule make these decisions, even if its decisions I can agree with. I completely agree regarding the statue, but people have been trying for years to get this addressed and it is only now that action was taken that things are being done.
spacemunky Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Do you have a bus? Can I get on? It's short, but there's a few seats still available.
CosbehFox Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 18 minutes ago, Nalis said: Good topic. Some of it makes sense like the Colston statue, some doesnt. How far back do we go and how tedious does the link become before it is deemed offensive by modern standards? Also, do we rip down the Pyramids of Giza because they were built by slaves? Personally said before on here - if the statue is that of a person - there's a direct offence there. The Colston statue was used as a celebration of him. Statues/memories which act as a point of remembrance, I don't see how they can be offensive. I used the example of Berlin how you'll find nods to the city's period in Nazi rule and Soviet rule but there's no direct statue in celebration and/or figure.
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 20 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said: There will be a lot of tv programmes looking over their shoulders, thinking will they be next? Particularly programmes from the 70/80s onwards. I love Only Fools but there are lines and comments in that when I think, jesus you'd never be able to say that now. TV shows, films and stand-up comedians have used stereotyping for ever, using various different subjects, in my opinion there is a line where stereotyping is ok until it becomes overly offensive, but the line is getting shorter and shorter. The Simpsons is the perfect example. The whole show is full of stereotypes. Cleetus the yokel, Willie the Scotsman, Luigi the Italian chef. But it's Apu that people have the issue with and who gets taken out of the show.
Dahnsouff Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 3 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Because sometimes, they're awesome. UK's most officially complained about ad: Ironically not banned, even though it received hundreds of complaints. I know the song, and its quite expletive heavy, but why so many complaints?
jonthefox Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 I wonder if all the rioters spared a thought for all the child cobalt miners whilst filming themselves?
Innovindil Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said: I know the song, and its quite expletive heavy, but why so many complaints? Having a dancing chicken in an advert from a restaurant that exclusively serves chicken angered some veggies/vegans.
Captain... Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 2 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Because sometimes, they're awesome. UK's most officially complained about ad: Ironically not banned, even though it received hundreds of complaints. Exactly, it's on the organisation to decide if the heat is worth it. Some advertising plays on that line but you need to know when you cross it, and if you have the brand strength to ride out the criticism. I'm pretty sure that the adverts you were referring to originally were not intended to be controversial or edgy and the fact that they upset some people it was probably decided it's not worth it the negativity. It's the way this is being portrayed as a new thing that makes me laugh, people have complained about shit for years, adverts have been cancelled artists, songs, books banned TV shows taken off air people sacked. It's nothing new, just the platform had changed.
Dahnsouff Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 Just now, Innovindil said: Having a dancing chicken in an advert from a restaurant that exclusively serves chicken angered some veggies/vegans. Speechless, although........... ......being bald I do find hairy people mildly offensive and I no longer wish to see them on television.
lcfc278 Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 Not sure what other people think but it seems a very tough subject to have a clear open discussion about, particularly on social media. It's almost like a minefield where one wrong word or expression used opens the floodgates for a lot of these 'outraged' people. You can have the best will in the world i.e. supporting BLM, supporting the rights of trans people etc. but if you're not 100% extreme to one side or the other or if you try to have a balanced view then it seems you are not allowed to be involved in the discussion. I mentioned online that I supported the removal of Colston's statue but not with the way it was done, I understand people have been lobbying this for a while and hadn't had any resolution yet, but we can't allow a mob rule to make these kinds of actions and decisions for us. It is the vocal minority who seem to be pushing the agenda and if you are not 100% behind it, the finger is pointed at you and then they will try to tear you donw on their way to what they want.
Innovindil Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 3 minutes ago, Captain... said: Exactly, it's on the organisation to decide if the heat is worth it. Some advertising plays on that line but you need to know when you cross it, and if you have the brand strength to ride out the criticism. I'm pretty sure that the adverts you were referring to originally were not intended to be controversial or edgy and the fact that they upset some people it was probably decided it's not worth it the negativity. It's the way this is being portrayed as a new thing that makes me laugh, people have complained about shit for years, adverts have been cancelled artists, songs, books banned TV shows taken off air people sacked. It's nothing new, just the platform had changed. This advert was part of what I was originally referring to. This hasn't been banned yet is the most complained about in the UK. I want to know why these offended people are treated differently to other offended people. Will they always be treated differently? Or will tomorrow see the end of dancing chickens? What will the day after that bring? You're absolutely right though, things have always been banned. But I'm just worried it's getting out of hand. At this rate we're either going to end up with a whole world at a level of black and white boring, or everyone walking around in spasms waiting for their next outrage fix.
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 Two of my favourite writers are Lovecraft and Poe, neither sound like they were particularly pleasant people. Do I care? Not one jot.
Sampson Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 15 minutes ago, Captain... said: Exactly, it's on the organisation to decide if the heat is worth it. Some advertising plays on that line but you need to know when you cross it, and if you have the brand strength to ride out the criticism. I'm pretty sure that the adverts you were referring to originally were not intended to be controversial or edgy and the fact that they upset some people it was probably decided it's not worth it the negativity. It's the way this is being portrayed as a new thing that makes me laugh, people have complained about shit for years, adverts have been cancelled artists, songs, books banned TV shows taken off air people sacked. It's nothing new, just the platform had changed. Agreed it's nothing new. Like a lot of things it seems to have politically flipped though (same with things like Brexit and protectionism and anti-free trade movements which were always left-wing movement when I was younger but appear to be right-wing movements nowadays). It was always the religious Conservatives back in the day who were getting things censored. A Clockwork Orange was banned in the UK for decades for example for its depiction of rape after Stanley Kubrick got lots of letters and death threats from religious conservatives. If it happened today he probably would have got the same thing but it would have been through tweets from more left-wing people rather than letters from more right-wing people. I've never been a fan of this kind of thing and agree that it's censorship by a minority and you should still be able to enjoy The Beatles or Led Zeppelin's music regardless of what sketchy individuals John Lennon or Jimmy Page were as both would most likely be national hate figures had their heyday been around today. But I also agree this isn't that different to what's been around before. People have always been denied platforms, it's unhealthy but it's always happened. Edit: that Obama video is great btw. I think it ultimately points to the issue - that in our heads we are complex individuals who can hold multiple nuances points, thoughts and lives which change drastically throughout the years and decades. But anyone else it's impossible to see them as any more than just their words and actions at a particular time. No one knows what's going through people's heads or what they need to do to fit in. That's why judging people's entire character so harshly on a few words is never helpful.
Izzy Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 One of those threads I'd love to contribute to but i ain't clever enough.
Innovindil Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 6 minutes ago, Izzy said: One of those threads I'd love to contribute to but i ain't clever enough. Just watch the dancing chicken Izzy and you'll be alright.
Dahnsouff Posted 10 June 2020 Posted 10 June 2020 Think someone mentioned it before, so apologies for referring without due acknowledgement, but this has not happened before, but it is a new norm. It is not in dispute that protesting has always rightly happened, but the audience such protests can now garner is way beyond what pre-social media protests could have dreamt of. It is the platform, the reach, and not just to bring together like minded people, but also collect followers from unrelated causes or different ethical backgrounds. The rallying point is now anger, the cause need not be so tightly defined as outrage has a power to inspire and it can spread very easily and quickly on the new platforms.
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