The Situation.

[Eskay]

1 hour ago, jeffschlupp said:

Teams go through rough patches, but we haven't actually been that bad in the last two games. Rodgers' job is about the performance, because ultimately he can't affect the result, but in the long run performances turn into results

 

We as football fans are fickle - if we'd seen out the game against Watford, nobody would be remotely bothered about the current situation. As it was, there was an unlucky bounce and a centre back has scored an overhead kick. That's football.

 

On the flip side, we've won plenty of perhaps undeserved points. We were rubbish at home to Everton, we were poor for an hour at Brighton, we weren't great at Sheffield United, there are plenty of other games in there where we probably didn't deserve all three points. As it happens, we rode the crest of a wave to take 8 wins in a row, and we've paid the price a little with this current run.

 

But I like to look at the law of averages. United haven't lost since January. There is no way they go 14 league games unbeaten, no way. Ditto for Wolves. Everyone is raving about Jimenez and Traore's form - they won't be in red hot form for the whole rest of the season. Likewise, there's no way we go 9 games winless, there's no way Vardy goes another run goalless, and so on. I know it's easy to think everything's against us in times of crap form, but it literally only takes a win on Wednesday and a couple of dodgy draws for Wolves and United, and we are back where we started, 8 points clear.

 

Rodgers has been here before, and been hurt before. I don't believe he'll let that happen again. The club have got senior players who know what these runs of form are like, and how to get out of them. They've got players that know what it takes to keep your nerve in the run-in. 

 

Ultimately, look at the table in isolation. With 7 games to go, would you rather be us, six points clear, or Manchester United six points behind?

 

Keep the faith ffs. There is enough in this team to see it through. Maintain the gap, match their results for five more games and we are all but there.

I admire the optimism and agree the managers experience will really help. 

But there is a simple flip side to your argument. 

 

If it wasn't for some wonderful goal keeping we could have lost both games. Against Brighton we didn't even test the keeper. We have played 2 relegation threatened teams and looked pants. Everton away is tough. Our run in is very tough. What's to say wolves and United can't go on a run? Have a look at Uniteds remaining fixtures. 

 

It's not that people don't see the 6 point gap......it's more that people see how fragile it is.....and how quickly it's reducing. 

 

[sacreblueits442]

59 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

Teams go through rough patches, but we haven't actually been that bad in the last two games. Rodgers' job is about the performance, because ultimately he can't affect the result, but in the long run performances turn into results

 

We as football fans are fickle - if we'd seen out the game against Watford, nobody would be remotely bothered about the current situation. As it was, there was an unlucky bounce and a centre back has scored an overhead kick. That's football.

 

On the flip side, we've won plenty of perhaps undeserved points. We were rubbish at home to Everton, we were poor for an hour at Brighton, we weren't great at Sheffield United, there are plenty of other games in there where we probably didn't deserve all three points. As it happens, we rode the crest of a wave to take 8 wins in a row, and we've paid the price a little with this current run.

 

But I like to look at the law of averages. United haven't lost since January. There is no way they go 14 league games unbeaten, no way. Ditto for Wolves. Everyone is raving about Jimenez and Traore's form - they won't be in red hot form for the whole rest of the season. Likewise, there's no way we go 9 games winless, there's no way Vardy goes another run goalless, and so on. I know it's easy to think everything's against us in times of crap form, but it literally only takes a win on Wednesday and a couple of dodgy draws for Wolves and United, and we are back where we started, 8 points clear.

 

Rodgers has been here before, and been hurt before. I don't believe he'll let that happen again. The club have got senior players who know what these runs of form are like, and how to get out of them. They've got players that know what it takes to keep your nerve in the run-in. 

 

Ultimately, look at the table in isolation. With 7 games to go, would you rather be us, six points clear, or Manchester United six points behind?

 

Keep the faith ffs. There is enough in this team to see it through. Maintain the gap, match their results for five more games and we are all but there.

...very optimistic, but also very wrong!!!!

  I would rather be the hunter than the hunted!

 There are no pressure on United or Wolves as we are alleviating the need for them to throw caution to the wind.

  Rodgers has been here before but has never worked out how to resolve this issue.

  Looking at the rest of our games, there are possibly two games where a Low Block would be the choice taken by their manager, this gives us a chance for a more open game in the remaining five matches....a chink of light!!!

[Nicolo Barella]

2 hours ago, dylanlegend said:

The turning point was the Rodgers to Arsenal speculation and subsequent big pay rise. Rightly or wrongly it’s affected the playing staff 

The turning point was Ndidi's injury. Yeah sure, we had trouble with Norwich, largely due to the 4-3-1-2, and Liverpool and Man City made us look like boys vs men, but we only really looked like we ran out of ideas when Ndidi got injured. I think Rodgers ****ed up big time by rushing him back from injury and getting him injured again.

[tsintskaro]

lets hope 5th place goes to Champions league,either way we are ****ed 

[Chrysalis]

3 hours ago, MonmoreStef said:

Was thinking the same. When was the last time we won ugly ?

Probably the everton game.

 

Since then we either win comfy or lose/draw.  We have forgotten how to win tight games.

[jeffschlupp]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...very optimistic, but also very wrong!!!!

  I would rather be the hunter than the hunted!

 There are no pressure on United or Wolves as we are alleviating the need for them to throw caution to the wind.

  Rodgers has been here before but has never worked out how to resolve this issue.

  Looking at the rest of our games, there are possibly two games where a Low Block would be the choice taken by their manager, this gives us a chance for a more open game in the remaining five matches....a chink of light!!!

You definitely wouldn't rather be the hunter than the hunted. United and Wolves are still relying on at least two losses from us, or three draws, and that's if they win all of their games. The statistics clearly favour the side with the advantage.

 

The whole idea of pressure is nonsense when you isolate fixtures game by game. United and Wolves won't change their game plans just because they've cut a gap by two points.

 

Rodgers has been away and won titles in Scotland. He got Liverpool out of tough spells before. He has the experience of Toure, Evans, Morgan, Vardy, Schmeichel, Fuchs who have all dealt with these situations before.

 

I agree our fixtures aren't as daunting as they may seem, though.

 

1 hour ago, Eskay said:

I admire the optimism and agree the managers experience will really help. 

But there is a simple flip side to your argument. 

 

If it wasn't for some wonderful goal keeping we could have lost both games. Against Brighton we didn't even test the keeper. We have played 2 relegation threatened teams and looked pants. Everton away is tough. Our run in is very tough. What's to say wolves and United can't go on a run? Have a look at Uniteds remaining fixtures. 

 

It's not that people don't see the 6 point gap......it's more that people see how fragile it is.....and how quickly it's reducing. 

 

You can dress it up either way. I can say Liverpool went to Vicarage Road and got trounced 3-0.

 

Look at United and Wolves' form. United haven't lost for 5 months ffs. You really think they aren't going to slip up at some stage? The law of averages says so, they are still a bang average side with an £80m fridge at centre back, an elastic wrist keeper, and some mid table players dotted around the odd quality one. Wolves have had some real poor spells of form this season, and we know they have poor records against poor sides. Hell, they too drew 0-0 with Brighton just before the lockdown.

 

The gap isn't quickly reducing. They've gained two points on us in two games. Hardly scary stuff. 6 points isn't as simple as two wins for them, two losses for us, because that just isn't realistically going to happen. 

 

But finally. Our run-in is tough?

 

Everton away - nobody should fear them. They have been crap all season, they play a way in which we can dominate the midfield and find space for key players in the centre, we all know the weaknesses of Keane.

 

Arsenal away - we are due a win here. They are crap, injuries everywhere, and they don't really have much to play for now. 

 

Bournemouth away - they are in big trouble. Defensively dreadful, and they'll have to go for it too.

 

Palace at home - Liverpool have pushed them out of the European race before they even got started. Typical on the beach team.

 

Sheffield United at home - by game 36, they will be comfortably in a Europa League spot with nothing to play for. They struggle to score goals, and teams are beginning to work them out defensively. Certainly shouldn't fear them

 

Spurs away - again, by the penultimate game of the season they will have nothing much to play for. Difficult game but still not a write off

 

United at home - if it comes down to this, then I would still back us. We should've took more at Old Trafford, we won't play two defensive midfielders this time. 

 

There is too much prisoner of the moment type talk here. Three wins from seven games. 9 or 10 points from seven games. Even at 2 points a game United and Wolves wouldn't match that.

[Dan LCFC]

4 hours ago, MonmoreStef said:

Was thinking the same. When was the last time we won ugly ?

I'm not sure we have it in us and that's part of the problem.

 

Lack of difference makers is telling too. I think Maddison cops some of the blame here too - Mahrez was on another level to him really, Mahrez could win us a game from nothing. When did Maddison last do that?

[Dan LCFC]

Also the error wasn't not signing a winger in January - it was not signing one in the summer. Perez just hasn't really worked. For what we paid I want a bit more than 7 goals in games that we'd have won without, and frequently offering no real threat.

 

Our wingers were a problem going into this season and we didn't rectify it, we just added to it.

 

This really isn't that big a shock to me in all honesty, I can't think of many teams that were so reliant on one goalscorer seeing it through.

[Nicolo Barella]

8 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Also the error wasn't not signing a winger in January - it was not signing one in the summer. Perez just hasn't really worked. For what we paid I want a bit more than 7 goals in games that we'd have won without, and frequently offering no real threat.

 

Our wingers were a problem going into this season and we didn't rectify it, we just added to it.

 

This really isn't that big a shock to me in all honesty, I can't think of many teams that were so reliant on one goalscorer seeing it through.

Perez was never a winger. He defended as one for Newcastle, but in possession, he was essentially a second/third striker - him and Almiron were given the freedom to roam the frontline with Rondon linking them up. The structured role Brendan has in mind for him is one he has not been able to adjust to. I think he can still be great for us as a second striker (as he showed briefly in games like West Ham away), but a winger he is not.

[Dan LCFC]

3 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Perez was never a winger. He defended as one for Newcastle, but in possession, he was essentially a second/third striker - him and Almiron were given the freedom to roam the frontline with Rondon linking them up. The structured role Brendan has in mind for him is one he has not been able to adjust to. I think he can still be great for us as a second striker (as he showed briefly in games like West Ham away), but a winger he is not.

I would agree with that, but that to me just makes the signing all the more bizarre given we've routinely put him out there - it was a real square peg in a round hole signing, and it wasn't a cheap one either.

[Deeg67]

I think the Perez signing was a result of too much obsession with getting a "proven Premier League" player.

 

Perez is a good player.  He just wasn't (and isn't) a great fit for our needs.

Edited 26 June 2020 by Deeg67

[Dan LCFC]

Which in itself proves how flawed that statement is.

[TeaMen Tom]

5 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

So we’ve more or less blown a 14 point lead over Chelsea. That’s impressive even for Leicester. 

Chelsea has steadily improved. Leicester has gone the other way - usually that's a function of talent finding its level. YT and Madders are the ones who have fallen off the most. They both need to do better - a lot better - to get this going in the right direction again.

[Deeg67]

57 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Which in itself proves how flawed that statement is.

You won't get any disagreement from me.

 

I'm not a big fan of paying a premium for guys who've been in the PL, or God help us "plus, he's English!" players.  Just sign the best damn player you can sign.  It may be a blow to the ego of PL fans but this league is not so different to every other top league that only guys who've succeeded in it already are worth taking on.

Edited 26 June 2020 by Deeg67

[teblin]

Only other advantage I can see since the restart  is we played poor in both games but haven’t lost. Mainly thanks to Kasper.

 

before the break we may have lost those (Burnley/Southampton)

[Guest ttfn]

8 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

So we’ve more or less blown a 14 point lead over Chelsea. That’s impressive even for Leicester. 

A Chelsea side which itself has been massively out of form for most of that period.

[teblin]

8 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

So we’ve more or less blown a 14 point lead over Chelsea. That’s impressive even for Leicester. 

When were we 14 points clear of Chelsea? What time period has it taken. I though we we about 9 or 10 clear of them. Which is still throwing away a bit lead.

[Eskay]

5 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

You definitely wouldn't rather be the hunter than the hunted. United and Wolves are still relying on at least two losses from us, or three draws, and that's if they win all of their games. The statistics clearly favour the side with the advantage.

 

The whole idea of pressure is nonsense when you isolate fixtures game by game. United and Wolves won't change their game plans just because they've cut a gap by two points.

 

Rodgers has been away and won titles in Scotland. He got Liverpool out of tough spells before. He has the experience of Toure, Evans, Morgan, Vardy, Schmeichel, Fuchs who have all dealt with these situations before.

 

I agree our fixtures aren't as daunting as they may seem, though.

 

You can dress it up either way. I can say Liverpool went to Vicarage Road and got trounced 3-0.

 

Look at United and Wolves' form. United haven't lost for 5 months ffs. You really think they aren't going to slip up at some stage? The law of averages says so, they are still a bang average side with an £80m fridge at centre back, an elastic wrist keeper, and some mid table players dotted around the odd quality one. Wolves have had some real poor spells of form this season, and we know they have poor records against poor sides. Hell, they too drew 0-0 with Brighton just before the lockdown.

 

The gap isn't quickly reducing. They've gained two points on us in two games. Hardly scary stuff. 6 points isn't as simple as two wins for them, two losses for us, because that just isn't realistically going to happen. 

 

But finally. Our run-in is tough?

 

Everton away - nobody should fear them. They have been crap all season, they play a way in which we can dominate the midfield and find space for key players in the centre, we all know the weaknesses of Keane.

 

Arsenal away - we are due a win here. They are crap, injuries everywhere, and they don't really have much to play for now. 

 

Bournemouth away - they are in big trouble. Defensively dreadful, and they'll have to go for it too.

 

Palace at home - Liverpool have pushed them out of the European race before they even got started. Typical on the beach team.

 

Sheffield United at home - by game 36, they will be comfortably in a Europa League spot with nothing to play for. They struggle to score goals, and teams are beginning to work them out defensively. Certainly shouldn't fear them

 

Spurs away - again, by the penultimate game of the season they will have nothing much to play for. Difficult game but still not a write off

 

United at home - if it comes down to this, then I would still back us. We should've took more at Old Trafford, we won't play two defensive midfielders this time. 

 

There is too much prisoner of the moment type talk here. Three wins from seven games. 9 or 10 points from seven games. Even at 2 points a game United and Wolves wouldn't match that.

Calling United bang average and then saying we can pump Spurs. Sheffield United. Everton & United ?? 

 

Have you watched any football since Christmas?

 

If it's that easy we would have at least forced the Brighton keeper into a save in the last game. 

 

Minus the villa game....we have had trouble scoring. Major trouble. Burnley. Southampton. Norwich. Brighton. Watford.....just a few of the teams we haven't troubled recently.

[Ian Nacho]

1 hour ago, teblin said:

When were we 14 points clear of Chelsea? What time period has it taken. I though we we about 9 or 10 clear of them. Which is still throwing away a bit lead.

To be honest, I stole the stat from somewhere else so not sure how accurate it is.

[Chrysalis]

I really feel those last 5 min's of Watford is dooming us, momentum is king in football, if we held on, then its 3 points from that game, and also not starting Brighton game so passively.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

So we’ve more or less blown a 14 point lead over Chelsea. That’s impressive even for Leicester. 

We must have created the 14 point lead in the first place.

 

As things stand we only have to match other teams and we finish 3rd. The future is in our own hands.

[teblin]

35 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

To be honest, I stole the stat from somewhere else so not sure how accurate it is.

We were 100% 14 in front of Utd.

[Ollie93]

 

 

 

13 points clear of Man U after New Year...

 

 

Edited 26 June 2020 by Ollie93

[RowlattsFox]

There is definitely a bit of the old "victims of your own success" going on, we had a brilliant run, where everything went perfectly and Vardy was in one of his purple patches. We deserved to be up there with Liverpool and Man City given the results, but we were overachieving given the quality of our squad. There was talk of a title challenge and believe players were guilty of getting a little carried away. Then we got a lesson before Christmas getting battered at the Etihad and then home to Liverpool without even laying a finger. We haven't recovered from that and confidence has dropped from a cliff.

 

Squad needs taking to the next level, whether we manage to scrape top 4. Hopefully the likes of Chilwell, Barnes and particularly Maddison can progress to next level, as they are not currently there. We need to find an alternative to Vardy, not necessarily replacing him but finding a way to play with him against defensive teams. Hopefully vastly improving the wingers could do this.

[coolhandfox]

Simply for me a paper thin squad that could deal with the injuries to Ndidi and Vardy.

 

Whilst Vardy hasn't missed lots of game the injury break just disrupted he's form.