The Situation.

[Deeg67]

9 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Simply for me a paper thin squad that could deal with the injuries to Ndidi and Vardy.

 

Whilst Vardy hasn't missed lots of game the injury break just disrupted he's form. 

Vardy was scoreless in 6 of 7 matches before the break.

[Manwell Pablo]

Pretty sure we never had a 14 point  gap to Chelsea, might have had something like that to fifth which tbf to us does still stand at Six so it’s only been roughly halved.

 

It’ll evaporate pretty quickly if we don’t sort our shit out though.

 

 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

 

20 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Simply for me a paper thin squad that could deal with the injuries to Ndidi and Vardy.

 

Whilst Vardy hasn't missed lots of game the injury break just disrupted he's form. 

 

10 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Vardy was scoreless in 6 of 7 matches before the break.

Vardy scored 2 against Villa in the last game before lockdown. His only 2 goals so far in 2020. Not saying it's his fault. Just stating the facts.

Edited 26 June 2020 by SouthStandUpperTier

[coolhandfox]

12 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Vardy was scoreless in 6 of 7 matches before the break.

 

2 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

 

 

Vardy scored 2 against Villa in the last game before lockdown. His only 2 goals so far in 2020. Not saying it's his fault. Just stating the facts.

Which just back up the fact that the squad is paper thin, we haven't got anyone who can cover lose of form or injury and the number of games over the festival period. 

[Dan LCFC]

8 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

You won't get any disagreement from me.

 

I'm not a big fan of paying a premium for guys who've been in the PL, or God help us "plus, he's English!" players.  Just sign the best damn player you can sign.  It may be a blow to the ego of PL fans but this league is not so different to every other top league that only guys who've succeeded in it already are worth taking on.

Nor me. I think if I was in charge the English quota in my squad would come from a mix of youth players and lower league signings (like Justin, Maddison, Gray etc...) there's just simply no value in buying from the Premier League, everyone in the league is in a position to demand £30mil minimum for basically any starter. To me it just seems like madness to pay it.

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

There is definitely a bit of the old "victims of your own success" going on, we had a brilliant run, where everything went perfectly and Vardy was in one of his purple patches. We deserved to be up there with Liverpool and Man City given the results, but we were overachieving given the quality of our squad. There was talk of a title challenge and believe players were guilty of getting a little carried away. Then we got a lesson before Christmas getting battered at the Etihad and then home to Liverpool without even laying a finger. We haven't recovered from that and confidence has dropped from a cliff.

 

Squad needs taking to the next level, whether we manage to scrape top 4. Hopefully the likes of Chilwell, Barnes and particularly Maddison can progress to next level, as they are not currently there. We need to find an alternative to Vardy, not necessarily replacing him but finding a way to play with him against defensive teams. Hopefully vastly improving the wingers could do this.

I think once the dust settles, a lot of us will I’ll established this but it’s just so bloody frustrating at the moment. 
 

Id have taken best of the rest before the season start. However we’ve built this season into our position now and it would be gutting that it’s the type of failures against Norwich where we’ve got 1 point from six what’s ****ed us 

[hackneyfox]

15 hours ago, dylanlegend said:

The turning point was the Rodgers to Arsenal speculation and subsequent big pay rise. Rightly or wrongly it’s affected the playing staff 

I keep seeing this.

Can someone explain why a manager (who it seemed all the players think highly of) signing an extended contract, with a payrise, would have a detrimental  effect on the players?

 

Surely it would be the complete opposite?

[urban fox]

I think our main problem is the lack of a calming influence and older wiser head in midfield. We showed early doors that we have some talented young players in the likes of Maddison, YT Wilf, Barnes and co, who on their day can be as good a unit as pretty much anyone. Whereas we have the experience in other areas of the squad in Kasper, Evans, Fuchs, Wes, Vardy and Albrighton that have all been there done that got the t-shirt, we lack that in our engine room. If we had someone with the quality and experience to  know how to calm things down, show the youngsters when things aren't going their way how to control a game from the middle of the park and break teams down then we would be much better prepared to tackle these slumps.

I admire the way, as a club, we have tried to recruit young talent and develop it etc, but it does seem to me that that is the one area we could do with a bit more experience. This would not necessarily need to be a prime starter, or even a long term player but someone who can come in and steady the ship when needed. In the great escape we Cambiasso, who according to some reports was not the most popular, but was respected for his ability, could pull the rabbit out of the hat and in turn inspire confidence in those around him. Everyone needs a Milner or Gareth Barry type figure around. Someone who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck and dictate things from the middle.

I am not saying that he would be the answer to all our prayers, but a Lallana type figure might be what we need in the short term?

[hackneyfox]

36 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Nor me. I think if I was in charge the English quota in my squad would come from a mix of youth players and lower league signings (like Justin, Maddison, Gray etc...) there's just simply no value in buying from the Premier League, everyone in the league is in a position to demand £30mil minimum for basically any starter. To me it just seems like madness to pay it.

You pay £30m for a PL player who hits the ground running and helps you gain more points.

You pay £15m for a player from abroad who has never played in this country let alone the PL and they may well struggle to adapt.

You could buy from the Championship and hope they step up but someone like Maddison will cost a lot more than £20m nowadays.

[Steve Earle]

5 minutes ago, urban fox said:

I think our main problem is the lack of a calming influence and older wiser head in midfield. We showed early doors that we have some talented young players in the likes of Maddison, YT Wilf, Barnes and co, who on their day can be as good a unit as pretty much anyone. Whereas we have the experience in other areas of the squad in Kasper, Evans, Fuchs, Wes, Vardy and Albrighton that have all been there done that got the t-shirt, we lack that in our engine room. If we had someone with the quality and experience to  know how to calm things down, show the youngsters when things aren't going their way how to control a game from the middle of the park and break teams down then we would be much better prepared to tackle these slumps.

I admire the way, as a club, we have tried to recruit young talent and develop it etc, but it does seem to me that that is the one area we could do with a bit more experience. This would not necessarily need to be a prime starter, or even a long term player but someone who can come in and steady the ship when needed. In the great escape we Cambiasso, who according to some reports was not the most popular, but was respected for his ability, could pull the rabbit out of the hat and in turn inspire confidence in those around him. Everyone needs a Milner or Gareth Barry type figure around. Someone who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck and dictate things from the middle.

I am not saying that he would be the answer to all our prayers, but a Lallana type figure might be what we need in the short term?

Someone like William Carvalho perhaps?

[urban fox]

3 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

I keep seeing this.

Can someone explain why a manager (who it seemed all the players think highly of) signing an extended contract, with a payrise, would have a detrimental  effect on the players?

 

Surely it would be the complete opposite?

Agree. in the topsy turvy merry-go-round that is football management, i would have thought that stability is what players would want. Yes there can be disagreements, and occasional disruptive individuals, but surely every time a new manager comes in with new ideas, players would surely be concerned that they might be on their bikes under a new regime. By all accounts BR is popular and in almost every interview with the players, young and old alike, they all seem to claim that he has helped them to improve aspects of their game. It was abundantly clear that there was a communication issue under the previous incumbent, epitomised by the "knobhead gate" incident but i have seen or heard nothing to suggest that this is currently the case.

[urban fox]

6 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Someone like William Carvalho perhaps?

good shout. Even if we only got one or two seasons out of them, it would give the youngster the time to develop into a position to take on the mantle. 

[sacreblueits442]

11 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

I keep seeing this.

Can someone explain why a manager (who it seemed all the players think highly of) signing an extended contract, with a payrise, would have a detrimental  effect on the players?

 

Surely it would be the complete opposite?

..not necessarily!!!

The achievement and the way it had been carried out on the field was being rewarded by the club...no acknowledgement to the players on the pitch, just the manager.

  Rodgers who I would categorize as disingenuous was being rewarded for a success,which, he had clearly masterminded, and this may have triggered resentment throughout the squad.

[jeffschlupp]

6 hours ago, Eskay said:

Calling United bang average and then saying we can pump Spurs. Sheffield United. Everton & United ?? 

 

Have you watched any football since Christmas?

 

If it's that easy we would have at least forced the Brighton keeper into a save in the last game. 

 

Minus the villa game....we have had trouble scoring. Major trouble. Burnley. Southampton. Norwich. Brighton. Watford.....just a few of the teams we haven't troubled recently.

We aren't going to be shit forever. Football doesn't work like that.

 

United are still the same team they always were this season. A decent run of form doesn't last forever.

 

In fact I seem to remember a thread after the first two games of this season saying we hadn't scored a goal from open play. We went on to win 12 of the next 14...

[urban fox]

2 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..not necessarily!!!

The achievement and the way it had been carried out on the field was being rewarded by the club...no acknowledgement to the players on the pitch, just the manager.

  Rodgers who I would categorize as disingenuous was being rewarded for a success,which, he had clearly masterminded, and this may have triggered resentment throughout the squad.

Some of those players had been given new/extended contracts during the summer. Players contracts generally run from June. Rodgers new contract came after he had been here for a full year, and also to ward off unwanted advances from other clubs as the merry go round started and a few vacancies had started to appear (Arsenal, spurs and speculation about OGS etc). We did the same with some of the players, handing out pay rises etc to ward off speculation as the transfer window opened.

The likes of Maddison have been offered new terms but they are stalling, hoping speculation of big bids might come in over the summer giving them more bargaining power when it come to their wages.

Surely if anything it shows that the club are prepared to reward performance which should encourage the players.

[hackneyfox]

20 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..not necessarily!!!

The achievement and the way it had been carried out on the field was being rewarded by the club...no acknowledgement to the players on the pitch, just the manager.

  Rodgers who I would categorize as disingenuous was being rewarded for a success,which, he had clearly masterminded, and this may have triggered resentment throughout the squad.

Players don't all get a new improved contract at the end of the season, depends on how much the club want to keep them. If players get pissed off everytime someone gets an improved contract then every club would be struggling like we are.

[Jon the Hat]

Look what Milner has brought to Liverpool on a free.  There can be value for the right player.

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, hackneyfox said:

I keep seeing this.

Can someone explain why a manager (who it seemed all the players think highly of) signing an extended contract, with a payrise, would have a detrimental  effect on the players?

 

Surely it would be the complete opposite?

 

One possible reason is that maybe pay rises were refused before the announcement on the grounds the club had no budget left, then those players who were refused higher offers suddenly see the club had budget to spare to give the manager a bumper rise, given the greed in the game, that could easily have caused it.

[FoxesDeb]

On 25/06/2020 at 09:31, FIF said:

I reckon we'll beat Everton, Draw with Palace, Beat Arsenal, beat Bournemouth, draw with Sheff, beat Spurs and beat Manure. 17pts - looks like we'll finish 3rd.

 

Deano, can I ask you just one thing, could you please write could have and would have rather than could of and would of. I know it seems petty and stupid but it really drives some of us Craaaazy. Thanks

 

On 24/06/2020 at 20:43, FoxesDeb said:

* WOULD HAVE 

* SHOULD HAVE 

 

Please 

 

On 24/06/2020 at 20:55, Manini said:

COULD HAVE 

 

 

Adding WE'D HAVE to this 

 

[urban fox]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

 

One possible reason is that maybe pay rises were refused before the announcement on the grounds the club had no budget left, then those players who were refused higher offers suddenly see the club had budget to spare to give the manager a bumper rise, given the greed in the game, that could easily have caused it.

Unlikely as player contracts are usually fixed until season end, and some had been given new deals in the summer. It may well have been written into BR contract that he would have a review after a certain period of time. Remember he joined midway through a season, it is unlikely he would have had a contract review during the summer after only a few months in the job and his new deal now brings him into line with a season end.

This is one aspect however of football that bemuses me. In any other business, employees contracts are a private matter between the company and the individual concerned. Whilst i have a rough idea of the going rate for various jobs within the arena i work in i do not know exactly what my colleagues earn. I negotiated my own pay, to a level that i am happy with and feel is commensurate with my responsibilities and in line with my qualifications,skills and experience etc. If others get themselves a better deal then good luck to them. I fully expect my boss to be on a higher salary than myself, (although this may not always be the case). 

[hackneyfox]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

 

One possible reason is that maybe pay rises were refused before the announcement on the grounds the club had no budget left, then those players who were refused higher offers suddenly see the club had budget to spare to give the manager a bumper rise, given the greed in the game, that could easily have caused it.

You’re guessing as are those who make the connection between his improved contract and the players form.

Havent we been trying to get Maddison to sign an extended contract? Hardly points to no budget.

[FoxyJim1987]

3 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

We aren't going to be shit forever. Football doesn't work like that.

 

United are still the same team they always were this season. A decent run of form doesn't last forever.

 

In fact I seem to remember a thread after the first two games of this season saying we hadn't scored a goal from open play. We went on to win 12 of the next 14...

Open your eyes. United have signed just the guy they needed, Bruno Fernandes, and with integrating Pogba back, them and Wolves are going to finish the season well. Chelsea are looking good and settled and will overtake us, there is a real worry now with our form and remaining games that we may miss out on champs league which would be majorly disappointing. This summer will be very strange, what clubs can spend and what clubs can't? Will it be worth playing in Europe to no fans? We have to get some sort of form going and quick

[Eskay]

4 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

We aren't going to be shit forever. Football doesn't work like that.

 

United are still the same team they always were this season. A decent run of form doesn't last forever.

 

In fact I seem to remember a thread after the first two games of this season saying we hadn't scored a goal from open play. We went on to win 12 of the next 14...

You're right. Decent form doesn't last forever.....with United....it only needs to last about 6 more games! 

 

I suppose you think Liverpool will just randomly start losing game after game too based on that logic? 

Barring Wilf....would any of our midfield start for United? At the moment Vardy wouldn't get a game. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Eskay said:

You're right. Decent form doesn't last forever.....with United....it only needs to last about 6 more games! 

 

I suppose you think Liverpool will just randomly start losing game after game too based on that logic? 

Barring Wilf....would any of our midfield start for United? At the moment Vardy wouldn't get a game. 

I wonder why Manure have been rumoured to be after Maddison for over half a season if he couldn't start for them. Our Midfield players are far better than theirs it's the tactcis being used that aren't. I'd add that at least 3 of our defense would also step into their team.

 

A few matches ago everyone here was saying how poor manure were and how good we were. Put things into perspective.

[Eskay]

2 hours ago, FIF said:

I wonder why Manure have been rumoured to be after Maddison for over half a season if he couldn't start for them. Our Midfield players are far better than theirs it's the tactcis being used that aren't. I'd add that at least 3 of our defense would also step into their team.

 

A few matches ago everyone here was saying how poor manure were and how good we were. Put things into perspective.

I don't think maddison gets ahead of Pogba or Fernandez. 

They would put 2 of our defence in probably.

 

I personally don't base anything on a rumour. I use my eyes to see a physically weak footballer who's been average since Christmas and is yet to have a good game against a top side.