Premier League 2020/21 Thread

[String fellow]

8 hours ago, filbertway said:

Massive respect for the protestors at United today. Actually had a proper impact. Mincing around outside will get you nowhere.

 

 

So it was okay to trespass, steal souvenirs, throw bottles and flares, and attack the police? The Chelsea supporters who 'minced' around outside Stamford Bridge and got Chelsea to withdraw from the ESL got my respect, but not that lot we saw yesterday in and around Old Trafford. 

[David Hankey]

9 hours ago, filbertway said:

Massive respect for the protestors at United today. Actually had a proper impact. Mincing around outside will get you nowhere.

 

 

And breaking the law does?!!

[lcfcfoz]

Come on Burnley 

[Strokes]

10 hours ago, David Hankey said:

When was the last time the Spuds scored 4 goals without Kane being on the scoresheet?

February.

[Strokes]

24 minutes ago, String fellow said:

So it was okay to trespass, steal souvenirs, throw bottles and flares, and attack the police? The Chelsea supporters who 'minced' around outside Stamford Bridge and got Chelsea to withdraw from the ESL got my respect, but not that lot we saw yesterday in and around Old Trafford. 

 

15 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

And breaking the law does?!!

A precedent has been set, BLM protesters smashed up cities, tore down statues and fought with police. The country listened, football listened and now mark each game by taking a knee.

It appears to be the only way to achieve change.

[Suzie the Fox]

10 hours ago, Kendal Fox said:

That logic makes no sense to me. If we'd beaten Southampton which I'm sure you wanted (don't recall you hoping for a loss or draw), we would have been even closer to United and you don't think the pressure would have been just as much, if not more? 

If we are to be good enough at this level, we need to know we can handle these kind of tests, no?

I'm female, since when has logic come into the equation?

 

But seriously coming back to your quote, the fact is we didnt beat Southampton sadly and my post was based on the actual result.

Pressure is something that will happen and we may or may not deal with it, but thats something that we will find out one way or another in the future. For now all i want is for us to play well, take points and cement a top 3 position.  

 

[ScrumpyJack]

Arry Redknapp?

[String fellow]

Just now, Strokes said:

 

A precedent has been set, BLM protesters smashed up cities, tore down statues and fought with police. The country listened, football listened and now mark each game by taking a knee.

It appears to be the only way to achieve change.

How would you like it if protesters 'smashing up cities' had smashed up your property, or if you'd been on the receiving end of a projectile and been scarred for life? You may think it's okay to fight the police, but I don't. 

[Carl the Llama]

4 minutes ago, String fellow said:

How would you like it if protesters 'smashing up cities' had smashed up your property, or if you'd been on the receiving end of a projectile and been scarred for life? You may think it's okay to fight the police, but I don't. 

You miss the point by quite some distance.  Or are you actually arguing that people should meekly accept every decision made against our interests by those with greater power/finances?

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, String fellow said:

How would you like it if protesters 'smashing up cities' had smashed up your property, or if you'd been on the receiving end of a projectile and been scarred for life? You may think it's okay to fight the police, but I don't. 

I don't like it, but I also seldom see anything done in society without causing a lot of aggro and carnage. 

 

The police and the powers that be want people to be quickly shut down and silenced and then law and order is restored as is the status quo.

 

I'd love there to be a platform that sees people able to stand up for something and have their voices heard without there being anything caught in the crossfire. I don't know of much opportunities though. Why do you think the government and police want to pass a bill that makes protesting much easier to shut down and prosecute?

[Strokes]

8 minutes ago, String fellow said:

How would you like it if protesters 'smashing up cities' had smashed up your property, or if you'd been on the receiving end of a projectile and been scarred for life? You may think it's okay to fight the police, but I don't. 

It wasn’t anyone’s property though was it? Obviously nobody wants to be on the end of anything like that but you are missing my point. These fans have been peaceful protesting for 17 years and nothing happens. It’s almost unnoticed, they are noticing now aren’t they?

[yorkie1999]

24 minutes ago, Strokes said:

 

A precedent has been set, BLM protesters smashed up cities, tore down statues and fought with police. The country listened, football listened and now mark each game by taking a knee.

It appears to be the only way to achieve change.

But what exactly are they protesting about? The problem for Utd is they haven’t won anything of note for years. If they were top of the league and in the cl final, these protests wouldn’t be happening. Their owners, despite anything else, have given Man Utd 1 billion quid and 2 top world class managers, as well as developing the area around old Trafford. They’re businessmen, they don’t buy the richest football club in the world and expect not to make money from it. This isn’t about the ESL, that was the straw that broke the camals back, this is about the lack of success and the fact they’ve not won a title for years but Man City have risen from no where and won titles and their fans don’t like it. The only people they see they can blame is their owners.

[ozleicester]

burn shit down, eat the rich.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

But what exactly are they protesting about? The problem for Utd is they haven’t won anything of note for years. If they were top of the league and in the cl final, these protests wouldn’t be happening. Their owners, despite anything else, have given Man Utd 1 billion quid and 2 top world class managers, as well as developing the area around old Trafford. They’re businessmen, they don’t buy the richest football club in the world and expect not to make money from it. This isn’t about the ESL, that was the straw that broke the camals back, this is about the lack of success and the fact they’ve not won a title for years but Man City have risen from no where and won titles and their fans don’t like it. The only people they see they can blame is their owners.

They haven’t given United a billion quid at all, they’ve allowed United to spend a billion quid of their own money. 
These fans were protesting during the Fergie years so you’re are talking shit I’m afraid.

[Carl the Llama]

6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

But what exactly are they protesting about? The problem for Utd is they haven’t won anything of note for years. If they were top of the league and in the cl final, these protests wouldn’t be happening. Their owners, despite anything else, have given Man Utd 1 billion quid and 2 top world class managers, as well as developing the area around old Trafford. They’re businessmen, they don’t buy the richest football club in the world and expect not to make money from it. This isn’t about the ESL, that was the straw that broke the camals back, this is about the lack of success and the fact they’ve not won a title for years but Man City have risen from no where and won titles and their fans don’t like it. The only people they see they can blame is their owners.

They've been doing the green and yellow thing for about a decade and a half if my memory serves me correctly.  FC United been a thing for quite some time now too, don't let your jealousy of their success cloud your opinion.

[The People's Hero]

14 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It wasn’t anyone’s property though was it? Obviously nobody wants to be on the end of anything like that but you are missing my point. These fans have been peaceful protesting for 17 years and nothing happens. It’s almost unnoticed, they are noticing now aren’t they?

Devil's advocate here.

 

Was there no 'middle ground' between the two?
 

I think an impactful and excellent protest got absolutely ruined and will be rightly condemned due to the actions of a few.

 

I just wonder if perhaps they pushed a little too far and it may actually harm their cause.

 

Also until they ALL stop spending money, the Glazers could not care less. The only way to hit matchday revenue also is for them all to keep their season tickets and not spend a penny in the ground (or just don't go). If they give up their ST; the Glazers will convert more of it to hospitality/tourist football and make more matchday revenue. 

 

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

They've been doing the green and yellow thing for about a decade and a half if my memory serves me correctly.  FC United been a thing for quite some time now too, don't let your jealousy of their success cloud your opinion.

17 years apparently  go d I feel old now.

Certainly long enough to know peaceful isn’t working.

[Angus Scott]

47 minutes ago, Strokes said:

 

A precedent has been set, BLM protesters smashed up cities, tore down statues and fought with police. The country listened, football listened and now mark each game by taking a knee.

It appears to be the only way to achieve change.

What an absolute load of rubbish. The vast majority of people in this country are appalled by the actions you describe & thankfully such anarchy does not achieve change.

The protest at Old Trafford was completely ruined by idiots getting in the ground & causing mindless vandalism. This means the vast majority of people will view this as football "hooliganism" & disregard it. Thousands protesting peacefully outside the ground, as was the intention, would have had much more affect

[HighPeakFox]

As a victim of childhood neglect, I can tell you that if you don't do something to get noticed, nothing ever changes. There are members of my family still in utter denial about their responsibilties - and you might think, well, that's irrelevant, but really, yesterday's event (and others like it) are just an extrapolation of the same dynamic.

[The People's Hero]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

As a victim of childhood neglect, I can tell you that if you don't do something to get noticed, nothing ever changes. There are members of my family still in utter denial about their responsibilties - and you might think, well, that's irrelevant, but really, yesterday's event (and others like it) are just an extrapolation of the same dynamic.

I certainly agree in principle; but I bet you didn't bottle a policeman.

[yorkie1999]

15 minutes ago, Strokes said:

They haven’t given United a billion quid at all, they’ve allowed United to spend a billion quid of their own money. 
These fans were protesting during the Fergie years so you’re are talking shit I’m afraid.

So if anything then, the Glaziers have been successful as owners of Man Utd as they’ve managed to run a football club and adhere to the rules of ffp. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, The People's Hero said:

I certainly agree in principle; but I bet you didn't bottle a policeman.

Of course not, but I did steal. Was it wrong? Of course. Was I sick and tired of being neglected? You know the answer already. Is this an excuse? No - but it's an explanation.

[The People's Hero]

6 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Of course not, but I did steal. Was it wrong? Of course. Was I sick and tired of being neglected? You know the answer already. Is this an excuse? No - but it's an explanation.

Yes; so we agree. 

 

Do what is necessary to make the point; and if possible in a legal and even constructive way but we acknowledge that protesting naturally needs to be disruptive and damaging. Preventing the coaches moving and all the rest of it seemed to have been working.

 

Not sure that slashing a policeman's face makes their point any more valid (in fact I know it doesn't) and I'd question whether it gets you the sort of attention for your cause that you actually want (it doesn't) and the point would have been more strongly made if there was a minimum amount of violence involved. 

 

By throwing beer cans, causing criminal damage and throwing flares at people; they gave the sky cameras (which gave them a captive audience) a very simple opportunity on a plate to spin the narrative against the protesters.

 

One key to any crusade like this is to manage the narrative; sadly they've shot themselves in the foot big-time since they've given any MSM a negative-hook to hang their story on. Huge mis-step.

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

So if anything then, the Glaziers have been successful as owners of Man Utd as they’ve managed to run a football club and adhere to the rules of ffp. 

That depends on how you want to frame your opinion. Manchester United have declined in all sense of the word since their arrival but in that particular framework yes.

[Matt]

29 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

So if anything then, the Glaziers have been successful as owners of Man Utd as they’ve managed to run a football club and adhere to the rules of ffp. 

Agreed.

 

Perhaps I don't know enough about the background of the situation, infact, I don't. However from the outside looking in, i'm not saying the Glaziers have done nothing wrong, i'm not even saying they're good owners, far from it, but whilst contradicting myself despite running a massive debt (Which they've always been in - they've always been run at having the biggest debt in world football) they are in a sense self sufficient, spending the clubs 'own money', as i've made the point a couple of time recently Man Utd fans seems be louthing in self pity claiming their club is being ran into the ground, you don't finish 2nd in the PL, get to a Europa League final, constantly break transfer records, buy Harry Maguire for 80 bleeding Million pounds when you're club is being 'Ran into the ground' and that makes me sick when you look at other clubs literally being ran into the ground, struggling, some of which don't even exist anymore.

 

To add to my last sentence you then get the media, ex pundits and fans of these big clubs saying "You can't dock points, that punishes the players and fans who have done no wrong". Well i'm sorry but neither have the clubs that have and are quite literally being ran into the ground who have gone into administration but the punishment fits the crime in that instance doesn't it. Hypocrisy of this highest order.

 

I agree with the point you (Yorkie1999) made a few post ago, they are ultimately crying because of lack of success in recent years, they're crying because the gap is closing and the 'smaller' clubs are stepping on their patch - the Man Utd fans (And those of the other 'big 6' clubs) don't see that the owners are singing from the same hymn sheet when they're constantly trying to run away whether that be 'Project Big Picture' or the 'Super League'. They don't want competition, almost a case of 'How these bottom feeders challenge us'.

 

The main thing against the Glaziers which I do totally disagree with and can understand Man Utd fans frustrations with is I believe the Glaziers basically bought the club then paid themselves back with the clubs money which is disgusting, this has always been the case though, people are claiming peaceful protests have always gone on because of this but surely their voices should have been louder 17 years ago about this? Why is it only coming to pass now? Because they've struggled in recent years and they can't handle it, that's why.

 

Edited 3 May 2021 by Matt