James Tarkowski

[Raw Dykes]

14 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

£40m is realistically what we could get, but would like £60m.

 

Curiously, Man Utd made a 45m offer for him on my FM2020 game, and he said he would rather stay

It obviously is not real, but it still  made me love him a little more nonetheless 

We're not selling Soyuncu for £40m. It makes no sense. If Barca are really interested, that tells you his level or potential.

[MGLCFC]

44 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

We aren’t Man Utd though are we?

We have to be sensible financially

As I said I rate Tarkowski, but not at 50 mill

But what I am trying to say is that, we value Maguire or Chilwell at £80m, yet expect to get Tarkowski for £20m. If Burnley fans thought Maguire or Chilwell were only worth £20m, but Tarkowski £50m, we would say they are deluded.

[Dahnsouff]

19 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

We're not selling Soyuncu for £40m. It makes no sense. If Barca are really interested, that tells you his level or potential.

Indeed and to be clear, my 40m estimation was if it was Barcelona, and if he wanted to go there.

[Raw Dykes]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Indeed and to be clear, my 40m estimation was if it was Barcelona, and if he wanted to go there.

Fair enough. I think the club might try to force him to stay in that case.

[casablancas]

Are we still interested in Koch? The German lad who I can’t remember anything about. 

[dbtcity]

I’d sooner lob 25/30m at Brighton for Ben White! The lad is going to be a top top cb

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

But you could argue that high % of imports are flops.

 

Since we have been back in the PL we have purchased Evan's, Huth, Maguire, Perez, Ward, so we have done ok,

 

How many import flops have we had?

 

Silva 

Slim

Inler 

Musa

Zieler

Benalouane

Kapustka

Hernandez

Diabate

 

I'd suggest we have waste more money on imports then PL players......

The players we’ve signed from other PL clubs have been good value and successes.

 

Zieler and Ward are a good comparison actually. Zieler was rubbish but he costed £3m and barely ever played. Ward costed £12m and plays between, what, 5-8 games a season? Ward is a decent keeper but just doesn’t represent good value. Huth, Evans, Maguire were all worth it because their fees were easily affordable. Signing players like Tarkowski for silly money might just be affordable but in no way represents good value. 
 

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, MGLCFC said:

But what I am trying to say is that, we value Maguire or Chilwell at £80m, yet expect to get Tarkowski for £20m. If Burnley fans thought Maguire or Chilwell were only worth £20m, but Tarkowski £50m, we would say they are deluded.

Both Maguire and Chilwell are regular international starters. In the latter case, Chelsea for instance would be buying England’s first choice left back (potentially) for the next 10 years. 
Maguire has become the Man Utd skipper already, something I suggested he would become pretty much as soon as United were linked with him.

Finally, the selling club will always hold out for the biggest fee they can get when they know the suitors of a player are very very wealthy.

Tarkowski at Burnley is a different thing altogether. He’s played for England but not a regular international. Burnley need the money. And we wouldn’t be spending over the odds for ‘potential’

I concede 20 million was too low (you are right in that respect) but my point is you can’t compare the completely different situations all the clubs are in. And once more, 50 mill for Tarkowski imo is too much, given all the variables described

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 minute ago, Col city fan said:

Both Maguire and Chilwell are regular international starters. In the latter case, Chelsea for instance would be buying England’s first choice left back (potentially) for the next 10 years. 
Maguire has become the Man Utd skipper already, something I suggested he would become pretty much as soon as United were linked with him.

Finally, the selling club will always hold out for the biggest fee they can get when they know the suitors of a player are very very wealthy.

Tarkowski at Burnley is a different thing altogether. He’s played for England but not a regular international. Burnley need the money. And we wouldn’t be spending over the odds for ‘potential’

I concede 20 million was too low (you are right in that respect) but my point is you can’t compare the completely different situations all the clubs are in. And once more, 50 mill for Tarkowski imo is too much, given all the variables described

Why do Burnley need the money?

 

I think they'd sell for 40m tbh, which is probably about his value, but too much for us this summer. We should go abroad and get someone younger.

[Jaspa]

If you're confident he can come in and play to a level we aspire to for the next five years, does it represent good value for money?

 

It's not all about sales, we need to keep a well structured squad built with the right individuals.

 

For £35-40m I think he could represent good value if he could come here and become a core player. For fifty it impacts our budget too much and we should find better value out there again.

[casablancas]

40 minutes ago, dbtcity said:

I’d sooner lob 25/30m at Brighton for Ben White! The lad is going to be a top top cb

Statically Tarkowski ain’t far off the top is he? In terms of defending. I’d rather have the experience myself. 

[Col city fan]

9 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Why do Burnley need the money?

 

I think they'd sell for 40m tbh, which is probably about his value, but too much for us this summer. We should go abroad and get someone younger.

Again I’m speaking relatively

Compared to United or Chelsea, Burnley would ‘need the money’. Old throaty is ALWAYS banging on about having no resources!

[coolhandfox]

31 minutes ago, Stadt said:

The players we’ve signed from other PL clubs have been good value and successes.

 

Zieler and Ward are a good comparison actually. Zieler was rubbish but he costed £3m and barely ever played. Ward costed £12m and plays between, what, 5-8 games a season? Ward is a decent keeper but just doesn’t represent good value. Huth, Evans, Maguire were all worth it because their fees were easily affordable. Signing players like Tarkowski for silly money might just be affordable but in no way represents good value. 
 

There a difference perceived value which is very personal and highly subjective and actual value.

 

Take Ward, at the moment your perceived value is he doesn't represent value for money, but if he was to become number 1 next season this would change.

 

Same for Tarkowsk, if we pay 50m and then he plays over 200 games at the heart of our defence, he's actual value could turn out to be better then his perceived value. 

 

I just think it a bit of a sweeping statement to say there is no value in buying players from other PL clubs, better to judge each transfer on its merit. 

Edited 7 August 2020 by coolhandfox

[Gerard]

21 minutes ago, Jaspa said:

If you're confident he can come in and play to a level we aspire to for the next five years, does it represent good value for money?

 

It's not all about sales, we need to keep a well structured squad built with the right individuals.

 

For £35-40m I think he could represent good value if he could come here and become a core player. For fifty it impacts our budget too much and we should find better value out there again.

 

That still doesn't represent value for money for us IMO.

 

I'd much rather see us buy a 22yo for £30m on a 5 year deal and sell him for £15m-£60m two or three years down the line depending on his performance. The difference between elite level clubs and us is we don't have to win things every season to be considered a success so we can afford to take these chances on players with potential. 

 

Our modus operandi should be buying top young talent and selling them at peak value two or three years down the line. Spending big money on the profile of players like Tarkowski will catch up with us in the end. We already know he's nearly 28 and there is little unknown about him after being a PL player for four years and on the fringes of the England squad. It's almost certain that his value has peaked so regardless of how well he does we've knowingly bought a depreciating asset. The elite level clubs know all about him and haven't made a move for him so there is next to no chance he ever moves on upwards. It's like buying a brand new car, as soon as you drive it off the forecourt that money you paid has gone and it's now worth less than what you paid for it. 

 

 

Edited 7 August 2020 by Gerard

[Wolfox]

He’s as close to a risk free purchase as you’re going to get…. Which is never going to be cheap

[mozartfox]

27 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

That still doesn't represent value for money for us IMO.

 

I'd much rather see us buy a 22yo for £30m on a 5 year deal and sell him for £15m-£60m two or three years down the line depending on his performance. The difference between elite level clubs and us is we don't have to win things every season to be considered a success so we can afford to take these chances on players with potential. 

 

Our modus operandi should be buying top young talent and selling them at peak value two or three years down the line. Spending big money on the profile of players like Tarkowski will catch up with us in the end. We already know he's nearly 28 and there is little unknown about him after being a PL player for four years and on the fringes of the England squad. It's almost certain that his value has peaked so regardless of how well he does we've knowingly bought a depreciating asset. The elite level clubs know all about him and haven't made a move for him so there is next to no chance he ever moves on upwards. It's like buying a brand new car, as soon as you drive it off the forecourt that money you paid has gone and it's now worth less than what you paid for it. 

 

 

May be Congers needs to get himself down to ‘We buy any car.com’ and take Slimani and Ghezzel with him?

[honeybradger]

Mee and tarkowski are massively underrated imo. That being said burnley wont budge on 50 mil for him, if they lose him there's no guarantee they can find or attract a replacement as good as he is and creates unneccessary risk of them going down.

[wattolcfc]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Mee and tarkowski are massively underrated imo. That being said burnley wont budge on 50 mil for him, if they lose him there's no guarantee they can find or attract a replacement as good as he is and creates unneccessary risk of them going down.

Definitely agree with this but I would throw in that if our players are being asked to put in transfer requests to get a move then clubs that are lower than us could be in the same position. I have no doubt that Tarkowski would be very interested in joining us and as he is in his late 20's, this could be his last chance for a move to a bigger club and he isn't attractive enough for bigger clubs than us.

[Gerard]

1 minute ago, wattolcfc said:

Definitely agree with this but I would throw in that if our players are being asked to put in transfer requests to get a move then clubs that are lower than us could be in the same position. I have no doubt that Tarkowski would be very interested in joining us and as he is in his late 20's, this could be his last chance for a move to a bigger club and he isn't attractive enough for bigger clubs than us.

 

But Burnley want elite level money for him when only non elite clubs are interested in him. That's their right but another reason to stay clear. 

 

I also would question on how a good a CB is when he plays in a compact defensive team, a bit like Huth and Morgan in the title winning year with two narrow defensive full backs and an industrious pair of CM's in front of them like Kante and Drinkwater. 

 

i'm not taking anything away from Tarkowski or Morgan and Huth for that matter but a big strong defensive CB can look a star in a team when all he has to do is headers, tackles and clearances. The top CB's have more to their armour by being able to play a high line and step up to join the play. It's one reason why we got so much for Maguire was his ability to break lines with his runs and his ability on the ball. 

[Jaspa]

26 minutes ago, Gerard said:

That still doesn't represent value for money for us IMO.

 

I'd much rather see us buy a 22yo for £30m on a 5 year deal and sell him for £15m-£60m two or three years down the line depending on his performance. The difference between elite level clubs and us is we don't have to win things every season to be considered a success so we can afford to take these chances on players with potential. 

 

Our modus operandi should be buying top young talent and selling them at peak value two or three years down the line. Spending big money on the profile of players like Tarkowski will catch up with us in the end. We already know he's nearly 28 and there is little unknown about him after being a PL player for four years and on the fringes of the England squad. It's almost certain that his value has peaked so regardless of how well he does we've knowingly bought a depreciating asset. The elite level clubs know all about him and haven't made a move for him so there is next to no chance he ever moves on upwards. It's like buying a brand new car, as soon as you drive it off the forecourt that money you paid has gone and it's now worth less than what you paid for it.

 

A player's value to a club and the value you can get from selling them aren't always the same thing, not everyone should be for sale. Our success has been built around a core group, that continuity has seen us through some rough moments and kept us grounded as what we set out to be years ago. This is part of what you have to do to remain a top club; build a strong core group of talented players with the correct mentality, develop them together and keep the best ones central to your plans, add pieces around them. If there is a player we are confident can come in and play for us as a core member of the squad for years to come we should be looking at spending money to do it, not everyone can be a bargain or young.

 

Players seen by the top clubs and rejected previously include Kasper Schmeichel, Bobbert Huth, Danny Simpson, Danny Drinkwater, Christian Fuchs.

 

Instead of buying young players as just an opportunity for money is wrong, we should look at the potential they can fulfill for and at our Club.

[Guest An Sionnach]

Pontus Jansson is a very solid experienced defender and at 29 has at least three seasons left. He is club captain at Brentford but we could offer him a last chance at top tier football.

Edited 7 August 2020 by An Sionnach

[casablancas]

53 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

That still doesn't represent value for money for us IMO.

 

I'd much rather see us buy a 22yo for £30m on a 5 year deal and sell him for £15m-£60m two or three years down the line depending on his performance. The difference between elite level clubs and us is we don't have to win things every season to be considered a success so we can afford to take these chances on players with potential. 

 

Our modus operandi should be buying top young talent and selling them at peak value two or three years down the line. Spending big money on the profile of players like Tarkowski will catch up with us in the end. We already know he's nearly 28 and there is little unknown about him after being a PL player for four years and on the fringes of the England squad. It's almost certain that his value has peaked so regardless of how well he does we've knowingly bought a depreciating asset. The elite level clubs know all about him and haven't made a move for him so there is next to no chance he ever moves on upwards. It's like buying a brand new car, as soon as you drive it off the forecourt that money you paid has gone and it's now worth less than what you paid for it. 

 

 

How many transfers Does this happen with? It’s a risk, as is Tawkowski at 40mil+ but I’d rather we take risks on a statistically proven player and push forward than gamble on a young lad potentially realising their potential and him being at Leicester when he does. I know my feelings but we Will see what the recruitment team come up with. 

[Guest Fktf]

12 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

But Burnley want elite level money for him when only non elite clubs are interested in him. That's their right but another reason to stay clear. 

 

I also would question on how a good a CB is when he plays in a compact defensive team, a bit like Huth and Morgan in the title winning year with two narrow defensive full backs and an industrious pair of CM's in front of them like Kante and Drinkwater. 

 

i'm not taking anything away from Tarkowski or Morgan and Huth for that matter but a big strong defensive CB can look a star in a team when all he has to do is headers, tackles and clearances. The top CB's have more to their armour by being able to play a high line and step up to join the play. It's one reason why we got so much for Maguire was his ability to break lines with his runs and his ability on the ball. 

Perhaps he has this ability, just isn't allowed to show it in the system Burnley play?

[sdb]

Would be a fab signing for us but anything north of 35m would be better spent elsewhere imo.

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, Fktf said:

Perhaps he has this ability, just isn't allowed to show it in the system Burnley play?

John Stones is a good footballer but a seriously flawed CB , I prefer the rock solid John Terry type myself.