Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
Lesta2014

Gosens and Bryan

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Signing one Atalanta player isn't going to make us Atalanta or Rodgers Gasperini. 

 

We played 352 last year out of necessity, it's not the best formation for keeping and controlling possession. There's a reason Barcelona, Man City, Spain, these teams that Rodgers wants to emulate, typically play a variation of 433/4231/4321, etc. 

 

I'll be really surprised if we don't go back to that once the personnel are fit. 

I agree though imagine BR would like to continue with 4141 with Ndidi in the holding, Madders and Tielemans in front and more creative, aggressive, goal scoring, cutting inside, winger/forwards supported by overlapping full backs of Ricardo and somebody like Gosens. Barnes might be one of them but the other we don’t own yet.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It really, really, really doesn't. 

 

I don't get how people can watch us go on a sensational winning run with a solid, settled, fit, confident 4321 and not think that's our best formation. 

 

It was glorious, round pegs in round holes all over the park (except maybe Perez, who contributed far more than he was given credit for but admittedly looks happier at 10.)

 

It thrives because you have Maddison and Tielemans both in that free eight role where they can alternate dropping in and getting on the ball to dictate play while the other advances. They're our best two players with the ball at their feet and it gets them controlling the game. 

 

You change the shape and you either have to play Maddison out of position (he's a mid table 10, he's a Sunday league winger, he's a world class 8) or drop one of them to gain a sub-par CB that you're shoe horning in. 

 

Your best formation should get your best players in their best positions, 352 involves us making sacrifices. And all we get out of it is managing to get Iheanacho on with Vards, who is a bit more threatening than any of our right wing options, hence why people like it but surely that just doubles down our need to buy a better winger. 

As well we had two centre backs that love to defend and that are confident enough to take the ball off Kasper and pass it onto midfield, we had two fullbacks that you'd call "all rounders" that are great going forward and also defending, we had probably the best destroyer in world football in Ndidi and Vardy who was built to be the sole number 9.

 

4-3-3 is perfect for us right now. I would rather we signed the players that we need to make us even better at 4-3-3 than to risk it to sign players that make us better at 3-5-2.

 

A winger and a Chilwell replacement and i'll be happy.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Nick said:

I agree though imagine BR would like to continue with 4141 with Ndidi in the holding, Madders and Tielemans in front and more creative, aggressive, goal scoring, cutting inside, winger/forwards supported by overlapping full backs of Ricardo and somebody like Gosens. Barnes might be one of them but the other we don’t own yet.

 

Your 4141 is my 4321, or 433, tomato tomato. 

 

Kasper

Ricardo Evans Cags Chilwell 

Tielemans Ndidi Madders 

Perez Vardy Barnes. 

 

Whatever you want to call that, it's our best current team. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

As well we had two centre backs that love to defend and that are confident enough to take the ball off Kasper and pass it onto midfield, we had two fullbacks that you'd call "all rounders" that are great going forward and also defending, we had probably the best destroyer in world football in Ndidi and Vardy who was built to be the sole number 9.

 

4-3-3 is perfect for us right now. I would rather we signed the players that we need to make us even better at 4-3-3 than to risk it to sign players that make us better at 3-5-2.

 

A winger and a Chilwell replacement and i'll be happy.

 

Spot on. 

 

Especially given the limited movement in the transfer market and the fact we're clearly not going to overhaul the squad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Fightforever said:

           Schmeichel

 Evans     Caglar     Koch/Demiral

Riccardo      Ndidi     Tielemans   Gosens

    Thauvin    Vardy      Barnes

 

I know its not going to happen but that would get top 4

Poor Madders

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

As well we had two centre backs that love to defend and that are confident enough to take the ball off Kasper and pass it onto midfield, we had two fullbacks that you'd call "all rounders" that are great going forward and also defending, we had probably the best destroyer in world football in Ndidi and Vardy who was built to be the sole number 9.

 

4-3-3 is perfect for us right now. I would rather we signed the players that we need to make us even better at 4-3-3 than to risk it to sign players that make us better at 3-5-2.

 

A winger and a Chilwell replacement and i'll be happy.

I agree, we need a winger and a Chilwell replacement too.

 

I do wonder if we’d do well to get a player like Zaha. Before peeps jump down my throat I am bothered by our over reliance on Vardy. If he gets injured we are screwed - not Nacho or Perez are gonna lace his boots never mind fill his shoes if he does his cruciate or something...

 

A player like Zaha as a left sided forward with Barnes on the right would for me mean if the unthinkable happened we have other options on the flanks and we could put Zaha in the middle up front in the lone striker role.

 

A sort of two for the price of one insurance buy. People will quote me Zaha’s poor stats and disagree but it’s just what I think we need unless we are gonna buy an Edouard who’s gonna be happy sitting on the bench waiting for Vards to maybe get subbed off...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fox85 said:

In peoples opinions who is better?

 

Gosens 

 

Tagliafico

For me it's Gosens, but that is based off the back of a truly incredible season that he's just had. Can he replicate that form again for another club? That remains to be seen. 

 

Tagliafico I think is an all round class act. No real holes to his game and very steady. Gosens is more explosive and better from an attacking sense. The reason why I think he would be better for us is that we need more players that can provide that attacking edge in the final third and he would do that. A lot of our goals come from a Ricardo overlap or him surging into the final third. being able to do that from both sides would be lethal. 

 

I don't think anyone would complain if we signed either though, which is probably why we'll sign someone else instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

I agree, we need a winger and a Chilwell replacement too.

 

I do wonder if we’d do well to get a player like Zaha. Before peeps jump down my throat I am bothered by our over reliance on Vardy. If he gets injured we are screwed - not Nacho or Perez are gonna lace his boots never mind fill his shoes if he does his cruciate or something...

 

A player like Zaha as a left sided forward with Barnes on the right would for me mean if the unthinkable happened we have other options on the flanks and we could put Zaha in the middle up front in the lone striker role.

 

A sort of two for the price of one insurance buy. People will quote me Zaha’s poor stats and disagree but it’s just what I think we need unless we are gonna buy an Edouard who’s gonna be happy sitting on the bench waiting for Vards to maybe get subbed off...

I think Zaha at the right price would be a good buy. He's clearly electric and suits our narrow front 3 perfectly.

 

Trouble is the right price isn't available.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It really, really, really doesn't. 

 

I don't get how people can watch us go on a sensational winning run with a solid, settled, fit, confident 4321 and not think that's our best formation. 

 

It was glorious, round pegs in round holes all over the park (except maybe Perez, who contributed far more than he was given credit for but admittedly looks happier at 10.)

 

It thrives because you have Maddison and Tielemans both in that free eight role where they can alternate dropping in and getting on the ball to dictate play while the other advances. They're our best two players with the ball at their feet and it gets them controlling the game. 

 

You change the shape and you either have to play Maddison out of position (he's a mid table 10, he's a Sunday league winger, he's a world class 8) or drop one of them to gain a sub-par CB that you're shoe horning in. 

 

Your best formation should get your best players in their best positions, 352 involves us making sacrifices. And all we get out of it is managing to get Iheanacho on with Vards, who is a bit more threatening than any of our right wing options, hence why people like it but surely that just doubles down our need to buy a better winger. 

I agree i’d prefer we stick to the 4-3-3 formation or a variant of. I think although we potentially look more dangerous with 2 up top we also look more susceptible to concede, and we don’t have as much ‘control of the game’ as managers love to go on about. And that’s not the same as just keeping possession it’s about the flow of the game and the chances we can create vs the number and quality of chances the opposition can create. 

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing a bit more flexibility with how that midfield 3 lines up, a bit how Guardiola alternates between gundogan and Rodri holding pushing De Bruyne up closer to Aguero or with KDB and silva either side of Rodri as 2 attacking 8’s. I believe we have the players to adopt both of these systems with Praet or Tielemans capable of playing alongside Ndidi in a holding 2 or playing more advanced alongside Maddison. This can then Ben adjusted depending on who were playing/ how the game going. As pushing Maddison further up allows him to be more dangerous in and around the box and closer to Vards whilst stopping him dropping so deep to pick up the ball. 

 

Therefore what we do need is a quality RW to provide balance and threat on both sides of the pitch and options for Maddison and Tielemans to create for who are arguably 2 of our most technically gifted players. 

 

Anyway I wouldn’t want Bryan as he’s not an upgrade on Chilwell so it would weaken us. And I’m not convinced on Gosens in a back 4 so would rather go for Tagliafico/ Telles who are more experienced in playing in a back 4, but are still attacking full backs so could be pushed further forward if we do go to 3 at the back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I'll be really surprised if we don't go back to that once the personnel are fit. 

Rodgers hasn't stopped thinking about it since he first joined even though more often than not it messed everything up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I think Zaha at the right price would be a good buy. He's clearly electric and suits our narrow front 3 perfectly.

 

Trouble is the right price isn't available.

 

The right price would need to be low enough to offset the considerable risk, for me - which isn't just unavailable now it probably never will be unless he runs out his contract, by which team he'd be how old?

 

His stats don't worry me per se, he's obviously got enormous technical ability, he's a terrific athlete, but he's playing for Crystal Palace. Roy Hodgson is an absolutely cancer on the sport and I'd be genuinely embarrassed to be a Palace fan. I know a small section of the ultra wannabes probably get off on the fact that they "rustle people's jimmies" or some benign shit because they care more about "banter" than being entertained on a match day but Christ are they just a complete stain. How is anyone supposed to have "good stats" as an attacking player when they're expected to just carry that?

 

So maybe it's that context that he's in that makes him such a dreadful team player, I can certainly see why a guy of his ability would feel under pressure to do it all himself. But that's just speculation, the bottom line is he plays like a greedy and selfish kid, even at 27, that would need an enormous culture shift to integrate in to a squad like ours where he'd be just another cog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The right price would need to be low enough to offset the considerable risk, for me - which isn't just unavailable now it probably never will be unless he runs out his contract, by which team he'd be how old?

 

His stats don't worry me per se, he's obviously got enormous technical ability, he's a terrific athlete, but he's playing for Crystal Palace. Roy Hodgson is an absolutely cancer on the sport and I'd be genuinely embarrassed to be a Palace fan. I know a small section of the ultra wannabes probably get off on the fact that they "rustle people's jimmies" or some benign shit because they care more about "banter" than being entertained on a match day but Christ are they just a complete stain. How is anyone supposed to have "good stats" as an attacking player when they're expected to just carry that?

 

So maybe it's that context that he's in that makes him such a dreadful team player, I can certainly see why a guy of his ability would feel under pressure to do it all himself. But that's just speculation, the bottom line is he plays like a greedy and selfish kid, even at 27, that would need an enormous culture shift to integrate in to a squad like ours where he'd be just another cog.

I think if you put Mahrez in that Palace team you get the same result to be fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Fightforever said:

           Schmeichel

 Evans     Caglar     Koch/Demiral

Riccardo      Ndidi     Tielemans   Gosens

    Thauvin    Vardy      Barnes

 

I know its not going to happen but that would get top 4

We have a decent player called Maddison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was convinced 4-1-4-1 was our best formation and it probably still is... IF and its a big IF that we can return to a fully fit XI that performed so well with it, and that we toughen our mental resolve. Its a formation that when we are out of sorts and the confidence goes, the possession football turns very laborious and Maddison and Tielemans cannot get higher up the pitch before the opposition have regained their defensive shape and it all becomes too workmanlike. Whether that's the system or the mentality but we seem to be far more direct when we tried to mix it up after a poor restart and went 3-4-1-2. We played some decent stuff before we lost players to injuries and lost our bollocks at Bournemouth.

 

Either way, there's many question marks over where we go from here. Still the nucleus of a good team but a massive work in progress that is in danger of undoing all the promising work of Rodgers first 9-10 months.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

It really, really, really doesn't. 

 

I don't get how people can watch us go on a sensational winning run with a solid, settled, fit, confident 4321 and not think that's our best formation. 

 

It was glorious, round pegs in round holes all over the park (except maybe Perez, who contributed far more than he was given credit for but admittedly looks happier at 10.)

 

It thrives because you have Maddison and Tielemans both in that free eight role where they can alternate dropping in and getting on the ball to dictate play while the other advances. They're our best two players with the ball at their feet and it gets them controlling the game. 

 

You change the shape and you either have to play Maddison out of position (he's a mid table 10, he's a Sunday league winger, he's a world class 8) or drop one of them to gain a sub-par CB that you're shoe horning in. 

 

Your best formation should get your best players in their best positions, 352 involves us making sacrifices. And all we get out of it is managing to get Iheanacho on with Vards, who is a bit more threatening than any of our right wing options, hence why people like it but surely that just doubles down our need to buy a better winger. 

Many good points.  However, in my opinion you have exaggerated to get Maddison  to world class as a 10.  He is an excellent 10 but even if he continues to be excellent with us, he may struggle to get into the England squad.  There are several talented English players around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All last season, many on here called for us to play with 3 at the back.  We clearly don't have the players for this as a system.  I agree with Finnegan about our strongest 11.  

 

A worry is that we are retaining squad players who are below the level of the first 11 instead of trying to get from an elite 11 to an elite 14+.  

 

Also, because of injuries and suspension, it looks lime we are potentially starting the season looking susceptible. 

 

To me our priorities is a right sided forward (Perez is good but was the weakest of our elite 11 last season).  Beyond that, is Benkovic ready to step up while Evans is banned?  It would be fantastic if Thomas delivered immediately, but hopefully we will see a strong Chilwell replacement arriving very soon.  That would not be Bryan!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...