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Lesta2014

Gosens and Bryan

By Lesta2014, in Transfer Talk

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honeybradger

honeybradger

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I was convinced 4-1-4-1 was our best formation and it probably still is... IF and its a big IF that we can return to a fully fit XI that performed so well with it, and that we toughen our mental resolve. Its a formation that when we are out of sorts and the confidence goes, the possession football turns very laborious and Maddison and Tielemans cannot get higher up the pitch before the opposition have regained their defensive shape and it all becomes too workmanlike. Whether that's the system or the mentality but we seem to be far more direct when we tried to mix it up after a poor restart and went 3-4-1-2. We played some decent stuff before we lost players to injuries and lost our bollocks at Bournemouth.

 

Either way, there's many question marks over where we go from here. Still the nucleus of a good team but a massive work in progress that is in danger of undoing all the promising work of Rodgers first 9-10 months.

Only good game we played with the 3412 was the sheffield one imo. I was surprised to see people raving about the formation after the crystal palace game, from what i saw palace just dropped a 2/10 performance and we didnt really have to do much to win that one, the formation didnt really affect it. Arsenal our flanks were massively exposed with our wingbacks pushed up and they exploited that space really easily and could have had 3 at half time. Overall 4141 just seems like the perfect formation for us if we can get a creative RW.

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Gerard

Gerard

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

It really, really, really doesn't. 

 

I don't get how people can watch us go on a sensational winning run with a solid, settled, fit, confident 4321 and not think that's our best formation. 

 

It was glorious, round pegs in round holes all over the park (except maybe Perez, who contributed far more than he was given credit for but admittedly looks happier at 10.)

 

It thrives because you have Maddison and Tielemans both in that free eight role where they can alternate dropping in and getting on the ball to dictate play while the other advances. They're our best two players with the ball at their feet and it gets them controlling the game. 

 

You change the shape and you either have to play Maddison out of position (he's a mid table 10, he's a Sunday league winger, he's a world class 8) or drop one of them to gain a sub-par CB that you're shoe horning in. 

 

Your best formation should get your best players in their best positions, 352 involves us making sacrifices. And all we get out of it is managing to get Iheanacho on with Vards, who is a bit more threatening than any of our right wing options, hence why people like it but surely that just doubles down our need to buy a better winger. 

 

For me the 4-1-4-1 really excels our MF players.

 

Maddison and Tielemans can work in tandem and do what they do best by getting on the ball and creating. It's much harder for the opponents to take care of both of them than it was Maddison when he played No10 under Puel with Mendy and Ndidi behind him.

 

It also utilises Ndidi's assets as he has to do more of what he's best at and less of what he's not so good at. Ndidi thrives at being the holding MF and allowing Maddison and Tielemans to attack more. 

 

I never really understood why BR tinkered with the 4-1-4-1 formation when we looked so good and were blowing teams away with it. 

Edited by Gerard
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Costock_Fox

Costock_Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Looking at the record of previous players they have sold, the majority have underwhelmed. I think Gasperini is an elite manager who manages to well mask a lot of the failings of his players.

No doubt Gasperini has done a ridiculous job there, would definitely need to be careful and I said last night I wouldn’t take every single player from their team as I think about half from their first 11 aren’t better than what we have.

 

I disagree re Gosens though. Zapata, Gomez, Illicic (is he sorts his head out), Pasalic would probably go on to be excellent elsewhere as well.

 

The issue you have with their players is they play a really specific style of play and id be worried if we got Gosens and stuck him in a back 4 so be honest. Unless you try to replicate their attacking flair it would be a risk no doubt.

 

Thinking of who they lost and had underwhelmed. Cristante fits that bracket but he was on loan, who else have they sold that’s failed?

Edited by Costock_Fox
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SheppyFox

SheppyFox

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Looking at the record of previous players they have sold, the majority have underwhelmed. I think Gasperini is an elite manager who manages to well mask a lot of the failings of his players.

Elite like 

42387B98-93DC-4448-9A8E-42C59794B05C.jpeg

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Only good game we played with the 3412 was the sheffield one imo. I was surprised to see people raving about the formation after the crystal palace game, from what i saw palace just dropped a 2/10 performance and we didnt really have to do much to win that one, the formation didnt really affect it. Arsenal our flanks were massively exposed with our wingbacks pushed up and they exploited that space really easily and could have had 3 at half time. Overall 4141 just seems like the perfect formation for us if we can get a creative RW.

2nd half vs Palace we were very good, whether that was Palace being dog shit or us making them so poor is debatable. Either way we'd been abysmal in our previous home games up to that point of the restart. Felt like the change helped us mix it up a bit, was by no means anywhere near as good as we were in 2019 but we were horrible playing 4-1-4-1 as we'd ran out of ideas in 2020. 

 

Whatever formation and style of play we choose foing forward, the players have to find their confidence and form, not to mention keeping the majority of them fit which has been a real worry under Rodgers. 

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Lambert09

Lambert09

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4 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Looking at the record of previous players they have sold, the majority have underwhelmed. I think Gasperini is an elite manager who manages to well mask a lot of the failings of his players.

Rubbish, nothing but quality comes out of Atalanta   Gif: Yohan Benalouane insane foul vs Olivier Giroud! | Witty Futty

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UniFox21

UniFox21

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, SheppyFox said:

Gosens for £30 is good. £20m to put towards restructuring our horrendously shallow squad... I still think after Gosens we need 4 more players to make a go of next season. 

I'd say 3 and we'd be okay; a CB, RW and a Striker 

Edited by UniFox21
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jeffschlupp

jeffschlupp

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I don't see the issue with a wing-back at full-back in a four when you have arguably the quickest CB in the league in Cags next to him and an effective shuttling defensive midfielder in Ndidi. If Ndidi can do what Gerrard did in later years and drop into a back three when on the ball ('the Busquets role') then it's perfectly manageable.

 

Gosens is a terrific player and would be an unbelievable coup for us.

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peach0000

peach0000

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Gosens is worth more than tagliafico in my mind. Younger and more importantly has been playing in Serie A opposed to the eredivisie. 30 million for him seems like a good deal. 30 for tagliafico for me would be expensive. If it is Gosens we get that to me also signals Rodgers' intention to play 3 at the back as opposed to a back four and with gosens and Ricardo we would certainly have the full backs for it but we would probably need another centre back to make it really work. Unless of course Benkovic is seen as that man.

Edited by peach0000
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