Injuries at the club.

[reynard]

35 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The medical staff are now heavily Brendan Rodgers men, he shoulders as much the responsibility as them. The majority of our excellent sports science and fitness staff have now gone, Paul Balsom was a genius and sadly no longer here. He was the mastermind behind our fitness and conditioning under Pearson and Ranieri. He's gone in the last year or so after stepping back more and more in recent years.

 

The best one was Harvey Barnes last year. Rodgers disclosed he'd been struggling heavily with a knee problem in the games before he did his knee vs Arsenal and was why he didn't start that 2nd leg vs Slavia but said something along the lines of he'd have been slated if he hadn't played Barnes so that's why he was still playing and not resting. Brilliant, out for the season.

Barnes would have been out for the season in any case as he needed an operation with or without Rodgers playing him in that game. He then had a set back when he started training once again. These things happen when coming back from operations I'm afraid.

 

There's far too much individual blame going on here right now. Yes, maybe the training methods should be reviewed but as to players playing on when injured or starting when not fully fit then there will have been a medical assessment done. The manager, whoever that is, then has to make decisions based upon the information and evidence supplied by the medical team.

We're not any longer in the days when the trainer came out with a sponge and a bucket of cold water to treat injuries. Players are professionally assessed by fully trained medical people who make decisions based upon player responses to the on pitch examination. 

Hindsight is a great thing. Sadly foresight doesn't work the same way.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Just now, reynard said:

Barnes would have been out for the season in any case as he needed an operation with or without Rodgers playing him in that game. He then had a set back when he started training once again. These things happen when coming back from operations I'm afraid.

 

There's far too much individual blame going on here right now. Yes, maybe the training methods should be reviewed but as to players playing on when injured or starting when not fully fit then there will have been a medical assessment done. The manager, whoever that is, then has to make decisions based upon the information and evidence supplied by the medical team.

We're not any longer in the days when the trainer came out with a sponge and a bucket of cold water to treat injuries. Players are professionally assessed by fully trained medical people who make decisions based upon player responses to the on pitch examination. 

Hindsight is a great thing. Sadly foresight doesn't work the same way.

Not if he'd been given a rest like the physios advised....

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The slow and laborious football hasn't been seen for a few months now. We've gone back to a mix of high press and turning the ball over in the oppositions half and trying to win the battles, we've had plenty of crunching tackles, both Liverpool games are an example of that.

For me it's been very much fits and starts during the last month (Not few months), a month that has been ravaged by postponements may I add, we did it (slow and labourious) up until Legia and Watford (Very refreshing), then it came back Southampton, Villa and Napoli, then we stopped it against Newcastle, Liverpool (x2) and Man City.

 

As for the change of style, well we always to in game against the like of Man City, Liverpool, as I said in a thread the other day part of me thinks Rodgers plays this way in the type of game we 'expect' to lose, in almost a defence mechanism logic and excuse in which if we duly lose he can turn round and say 'Well that's why we don't play that way'.

 

Liverpool, hands down was the performance of the season, for me up there with the performance of Rodgers tenure here (Despite the 9-0!) but the real refreshing games and change to his game were the Newcastle, Watford and Legia games, the level of teams (No disrespect) that we usually struggle with because 'we can't break them down', but it's still been fits and starts as far as i'm concerned, it's a shame we've had games postponed because we could be debating them now and hopefully I could agree that'd we'd binned the slow and laborious off unfortunately it remains to be seen if a real change has been made, i'm sure we'll see one way or another shortly though.

 

For the record our best, most enjoyable performance of the season (Along with other performances i've listed above) have come when we had a depleted squad, it looked like there was more hunger, they wanted it more, the played like a team that wanted it more, a team that wanted to attack, go forwards, be positive, maybe it was siege mentality, maybe it was coincidence but either way it was a refreshing change, likewise i've not problems with playing the kids, lets be honest defensively they can't be much worse than out first choice, senior players have been can they.

[CosbehFox]

12 minutes ago, KFS said:

Wdym mate

A fixture list which for two and half years has been congested to a level post 2000 never seen. Same time we’ve tried to keep competitive in four competitions. I’ve seen how City’s fanbase starts going nuts when a player is rested for a cup game. 
 

What I find interesting is that back when Ranieri was here, the sports science told them to chill on the intense training and he did. 
 

If the same thing was happening, you’d have expected the lads like Matt Reeves to have fcuked off if they were being ignored. 
 

Rennie was bombed out because exactly like he did during Ranieri’s period, he was shit stirring and rather than calling it out to the manager, running off to Rudkin to moan about things 

Edited 8 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[lgfualol]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

This new doctor we had come in, wonder what the true honest feeling is on what he's doing. Can't be a glowing indictment can it. Rodgers instrumental in his recruitment too....

 

 

Probs follows alternative medicine practices, treating hamstring and ACL injuries with herbs.

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Not if he'd been given a rest like the physios advised....

Agreed but this is a quandary we are.
 

Every City fan before that Liverpool game wanted us to go for it and try to win a trophy.
 

The drop off in our squad from the best to the back up is huge; makes me think back to Brighton, 5th Cup Round last year and it was woefully short of quality. 
 

It’s a combination of matters including the inability when the chance was there to sign decent players ala Vestergaard for example. We just needed someone semi competent who      could play League Cup and Europa League. 

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

With injuries please remember that we’ve just lived through two of the most insane seasons in history. One season cut short then resumed with 3 games a week, followed by a tiny summer break straight into another full season this time with major International championships following them. Plus new COVID variants every couple of months, etc. It’s not a surprise that many teams in the league are decimated! Whilst we’ve been hit particularly hard I’m surprised that other teams haven’t had similar problems. 
 

Player welfare has been second to keeping the fixture schedule going for some time now. 

Say this again louder for people at the back please.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Agreed but this is a quandary we are.
 

Every City fan before that Liverpool game wanted us to go for it and try to win a trophy.
 

The drop off in our squad from the best to the back up is huge; makes me think back to Brighton, 5th Cup Round last year and it was woefully short of quality. 
 

It’s a combination of matters including the inability when the chance was there to sign decent players ala Vestergaard for example. We just needed someone semi competent who      could play League Cup and Europa League. 

And who's idea was it sign vestergaard and Bertrand?

[urban.spaceman]

Just now, Chocolate Teapot said:

And who's idea was it sign vestergaard and Bertrand?

They were both targeted as squad players; Bertrand was signed on a free and Vestegaard had been scouted before but had to be made a priority after Fofana's injury. They were never supposed to be regular starters, just reinforcements when needed. 

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

And who's idea was it sign vestergaard and Bertrand?

Point taken (although Vestergaard had a circumstance around it which forces that slightly). Warning signs were on Bertrand when he pulled that trick on his contract length. 
 

Slightly goes to my point that the club failed across the board as the scouting/analytic lads couldn’t argue against their signings and prove alternatives. 

Edited 8 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[StanSP]

29 minutes ago, KFS said:

Mate pick your battles. We support a professional sports team who have year after year had compounding injury problems to a point where now we have to play the u23 team to defend our one and only FA Cup.

 

We all love this team but you’re sticking out like a sore thumb on something we have a right to ask questions on. The squad is ****ing decimated and there’s too many coincidences for it not to be a management issue.

You've mistaken my question for thinking I believe there aren't issues. 

 

I do think there are issues, and I do think we need to do something to resolve them. But making snap judgements isn't helping. I think there is a right to ask questions, but some questions you'll never get the answers to and some cynicism also sticks out like a sore thumb too... 

[brucey]

Ricardo's ACL injury should have been picked up on examination, sparing him from being played on. I don't recall if the ACL test was done at the time of injury though? If it wasn't done, it might be that it wasn't suspected due to his lack of pain and ability to continue running, so there would have been no reason to take him off. 

 

With Ricardo's most recent broken leg, I don't think it would have been possible to diagnose that on the pitch. On his Instagram two days after the injury, he was on a bike in the gym without a cast, so it's likely to have been a hairline fracture with no deformity. Though he should probably have been taken off as a precaution after the first time he collapsed to the ground soon after.

 

It's a combination of genuinely terrible luck from players being assaulted, questionable Rodgers/medical team decisions, and an excessive number of games. Then this gets amplified even more as the available pool of players shrinks further, increasing the need to make questionable decisions in busy periods, causing exponentially more injuries. We are beyond the point of it being sustainable, the slow trickle of players returning may not balance out the speed of new injuries. Wish we could just end the season here and give everyone a few months to recover. 

[Ric Flair]

55 minutes ago, reynard said:

Barnes would have been out for the season in any case as he needed an operation with or without Rodgers playing him in that game. He then had a set back when he started training once again. These things happen when coming back from operations I'm afraid.

 

There's far too much individual blame going on here right now. Yes, maybe the training methods should be reviewed but as to players playing on when injured or starting when not fully fit then there will have been a medical assessment done. The manager, whoever that is, then has to make decisions based upon the information and evidence supplied by the medical team.

We're not any longer in the days when the trainer came out with a sponge and a bucket of cold water to treat injuries. Players are professionally assessed by fully trained medical people who make decisions based upon player responses to the on pitch examination. 

Hindsight is a great thing. Sadly foresight doesn't work the same way.

It's view points like this that will continue to allow this regime to operate how they are doing and then moan that we've such bad luck with injuries. Honestly, some of you lot would stick up for this lot if one of the staff had nutted one of the players and killed them.

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, Harpenden Fox said:

Funnily enough we don’t just move the ball from side to side, do we? Of recent injuries, Vardy was in a chase, Cags was chasing back, Ricky P had his leg broken by an opponent. But don’t let that get in the way of your never ending crusade to criticise everything about LCFC.

 

You really think an elite manager, with all the resources at his disposal, would let his teams arrive at match day knackered?

...if you are doing 2 or 3 sessions a day with high intensity training, then before match day, you reduce the schedule to light training, then the body having been conditioned to accept a certain load over a period of time will be liable to break down (react)!!!

  We have been plagued with issues with hamstrings for a while, players feeling a pull or a tweak and yet trusted to complete games.

  Rodgers has stated he has dropped the level of intensity (in training) due to how close and the amount of games being played at the moment.

  Players bodies and muscles are having to adjust and in someway explains our breakdowns.

  Pearson had what was perhaps the fittest team  in the Premier League when we came up, we had a very good team who understood the human body and ways to get the best out of our players.

  It is often said that we were lucky in the season we won the league, in regards injuries, but you will probably find it was much more than that.

[StanSP]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's view points like this that will continue to allow this regime to operate how they are doing and then moan that we've such bad luck with injuries. Honestly, some of you lot would stick up for this lot if one of the staff had nutted one of the players and killed them.

Not exactly true though is it. 

 

Weird how everything is allowed to be questioned but dare to stick in any kind of defence or rationale/slightly reasoned argument and then it's frowned upon. 

[reynard]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's view points like this that will continue to allow this regime to operate how they are doing and then moan that we've such bad luck with injuries. Honestly, some of you lot would stick up for this lot if one of the staff had nutted one of the players and killed them.

Fair enough. Personally I don't think the club will give a stuff about what I or anyone else not directly employed by the club think about training methods or injuries. Speaking for myself I'm not a qualified sports physio or sports medic. Maybe you are?

It is not a question of sticking up for anyone more a question of balance and a proportioned response.  I note you say this lot. Fine. the point I'm making is that all these things are down to more than one individual.

Perhaps you would like to cite some actual training methods we are using on a day to day basis which are prejudicial to our players physical well being. I don't mean just broad brushstroke statements I mean actual things that the training team involve our players in on a day to day basis which is the direct cause of all the injuries. I'm genuinely intrigued to know.

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not exactly true though is it. 

 

Weird how everything is allowed to be questioned but dare to stick in any kind of defence or rationale/slightly reasoned argument and then it's frowned upon. 

Eh? If someone doesn't agree with someone else's opinion they'll argue it. My opinion is no more valid than those sticking up for the club in regard to our injury problems. I will bring examples of why I think it's unacceptable but if folk still want to give Rodgers and his team the benefit of doubt then that's up to them. I don't quite get why you think there's some hypocrisy in opinion going on here?

[StriderHiryu]

Personally I blame @Ric Flairfor not making a post saying “2000 likes and all injuries heal themselves”.

 

You’ve let us all down SMH. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

They were both targeted as squad players; Bertrand was signed on a free and Vestegaard had been scouted before but had to be made a priority after Fofana's injury. They were never supposed to be regular starters, just reinforcements when needed. 

But surely if you're signing reinforcements they need to actually fit in the system.

 

Vestergaard can't defend higher than the six yard box for fear of being beaten for pace. And a manager who wants his defenders beyond the half way line signed him.....work that one out.

[Cropwellfox]

So that’s 9 senior outfield players plus 2 senior keepers today - counting VDC as a senior player given number of games he’s been on bench for -  every available outfield player in the starting team. Never known injuries like this in 40 years of supporting them. 

Edited 8 January 2022 by Cropwellfox

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Cropwellfox said:

So that’s 9 senior outfield players plus 2 senior keepers today, every available outfield player in the starting team. Never known injuries like this in 40 years of supporting them. 

Not the manager and staffs fault though, just really bad luck guys.

[Foxxed]

I'm happy to see the u23s getting some game time.

 

The question is: are we being ****ed by Lady Luck alone, given the problems at Liverpool and Celtic.

[StanSP]

56 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Eh? If someone doesn't agree with someone else's opinion they'll argue it. My opinion is no more valid than those sticking up for the club in regard to our injury problems. I will bring examples of why I think it's unacceptable but if folk still want to give Rodgers and his team the benefit of doubt then that's up to them. I don't quite get why you think there's some hypocrisy in opinion going on here?

Not hypocrisy. But when I've dared to offer some defence to Rodgers and/or the club or medical staff it's been met with ridicule and derision. Your post that I quoted is an example. 

[Matt]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not hypocrisy. But when I've dared to offer some defence to Rodgers and/or the club or medical staff it's been met with ridicule and derision. Your post that I quoted is an example. 

It's a two way street.

 

I have experienced the same the opposite side.

 

As always you need to have a sense of understand both sides, where possible i'm always open for debate, allowing to change my mind and conceding points when a good counter argument is put forward but whichever side of the argument a person is on it always feels like as if a personal opinion is frowned upon, that's how debate and argument happens.

 

Edited 8 January 2022 by Matt

[urban.spaceman]

Another injury:

 

Floodlights (OUT) torn filament. 6-8 weeks.