Rodgers

[Aus Fox]

10 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

If that helps you.

Doesn’t it help everyone to use facts, rather than make things up?

[Vazman]

2 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

 

I think you need some new material here buddy...

Only if you promise to allow others to have an opinion different to yours 

[Aus Fox]

Just now, Vazman said:

Only if you promise to allow others to have an opinion different to yours 

People are allowed different opinions, I merely corrected the inaccuracies of the post. Facts and opinions are two different things.

[Vazman]

Just now, Aus Fox said:

People are allowed different opinions, I merely corrected the inaccuracies of the post. Facts and opinions are two different things.

They are indeed, and its great to have such a thorough fact checker, such as yourself to keep us all informed.

[deanolegend1989]

The simple reason we are struggling is the formation and that’s down to Brendan.

 

Last season at our best we had Vardy Barnes and Perez. All fast and pressed high with a 3. Wilfs strength, Tielemens control and Maddison to support and get into little pockets(centrally) can support the attack and balance the defence at the same time.

Defensively we had a solid partnership at CB with 2 flying wingbacks. More pace. Great balance of wide pace and strength in midfield.

 

This formation puts too many static players and no movement so it’s no wonder why we struggle to create.

I feel really sorry for Vardy, Barnes and Maddison. They havnt got a hope set up like this with the crap behind them.

Vardy always marked by 2/3 players including big cbs who have no runners to deal with.

Barnes gets doubled up every game and Maddison in this role is a square peg in a round hole and doesn’t get his class out of him as we’ve said for years now ‘he’s not a wide man!’ He doesn’t have the pace, so change the formation to fit our players for god sakes.

 

In midfield we then no bite , no creativity no movement. Tielemens needs help, he’s so deep and can’t be expected to pick out an arsenal type ball every game from deep. He controls it when we are on top, but we need round pegs in round holes in front of him or he gets all the work on him when we’re being pressed. We need Wilf back fit and ready to support him better.

Then at the back, playing 5 invites pressure on us because we have 1 less player forward, so teams get higher onto our back line more often. This means we have to last ditch defence more than we would have to if he played less negative, and that isn’t a good situation when you have 2 kids Thomas and Justin and 2/3 old or past it players in Fuchs , Albrighton and Evans.

 

We are a shadow of how we were and it’s mainly due to having 2 many weak static players in the team and not enough pace and ability.

We are actually currently a very very average team and sometimes when we score first we can just sh*thouse a win but we are nearly hopeless when we concede first in a game because we have absolutely no movement or threat in the team and it’s too easy to play against us if we concede first.

 

This has been a huge problem for ages and when you look into it deeply you can see why when you actually analyse the players we are using.

In defence to BR we have been hugely injury hit and it’s been hard for him to get our top team out, however he has become a negative coach. I don’t believe he believes in the ability of our team and has turned into a scared puppy.

Va Fulham that formation and tactical set up was unacceptable imo and if he does it today vs Sheffield Utd I will start to lose faith in him, because I don’t need to see the game to know that we WONT win if we set up like that , despite the opposition having 1 draw 9 defeats out of 10 I’m still extremely unconfident.

[Mickyblueeyes]

11 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

The playing keep ball is likely on the manager's instructions.

Ok. So you criticise the manager. However, when it’s the 67th minute and the side has not made any in roads in the oppositions defence and the side is losing 1-0, do you not expect the more experience players to take lead ? Or do you expect them to be continually “coached” from the bench ? To be told, move forward, into space - I expect more from our players. I expect them to use initiative in game. I’m struggling to see that when things are not working.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Vazman said:

Mate we will agree to disagree, I am enthusiastic about our future not entitled!

Good lad...debate is still good,Even when swords cross...

[deanolegend1989]

After the Sheffield Utd set up, I am really questioning his future.

I have absolutely no words to say for him. He has bottled it again big time and I’m nearly certain we will fail to win again today and will be again suprised why this formation is garbage.

If we don’t win today as I’m nearly sure if after that joke he’s given up then my confidence in him will be gone.

[matty98]

I get the impression that he's desperate to be seen as some sort of tactical genius so feels the need to make strange team selections so that when they come off he gets more credit. 

[fuchsntf]

50 minutes ago, Vazman said:

Only if you promise to allow others to have an opinion different to yours 

Different opinions are welcome, but as Live is, surely all posters Projecting any opinion,can expect others to opinionate over what they put forward,

Discusion & debate is our Hearts blood. Just because One Faces even critic or opposite views ( with BS,nonsense, load of crap) its the same if your

with mates/fans in the pub, One agrees,Argues or laugh each other..down or with..!!

 

I Never Take anything personal, I just bring Alternative perspectives/opinions...I have no frustrating Anger or disgust, every opinion gives the thoughts of

others and has weight...But when goes or Leans to the negative,then prepared for the avalanche for direct or incorrect reasons,the same if One goes

over the top with continual exstatic  Happy-clapper plaudits....

 

Discussion-debate from total twaddle to many a chosen wise word...All interesting opinions through the Core of our membership,but besides that opinion

in its own rights,even the thought against the validity of that opinion will be questioned...and opinions given

Consensus ,Even when we won the bloody Thing was amusingly opinionated on over different poles...

100k fans in a Stadium will give 100k diverse Perspectives & opinions....

Lovely...innit..

[Chrysalis]

18 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Ok. So you criticise the manager. However, when it’s the 67th minute and the side has not made any in roads in the oppositions defence and the side is losing 1-0, do you not expect the more experience players to take lead ? Or do you expect them to be continually “coached” from the bench ? To be told, move forward, into space - I expect more from our players. I expect them to use initiative in game. I’m struggling to see that when things are not working.

If I watch the games without the crowd noise, thats exactly whats happening, constant instructions for the entire game, every action they do seems to be micro managed.  Players like nacho who want to drive forward end up not getting picked.

Edited 7 December 2020 by Chrysalis

[Ric Flair]

22 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

The simple reason we are struggling is the formation and that’s down to Brendan.

 

Last season at our best we had Vardy Barnes and Perez. All fast and pressed high with a 3. Wilfs strength, Tielemens control and Maddison to support and get into little pockets(centrally) can support the attack and balance the defence at the same time.

Defensively we had a solid partnership at CB with 2 flying wingbacks. More pace. Great balance of wide pace and strength in midfield.

 

This formation puts too many static players and no movement so it’s no wonder why we struggle to create.

I feel really sorry for Vardy, Barnes and Maddison. They havnt got a hope set up like this with the crap behind them.

Vardy always marked by 2/3 players including big cbs who have no runners to deal with.

Barnes gets doubled up every game and Maddison in this role is a square peg in a round hole and doesn’t get his class out of him as we’ve said for years now ‘he’s not a wide man!’ He doesn’t have the pace, so change the formation to fit our players for god sakes.

 

In midfield we then no bite , no creativity no movement. Tielemens needs help, he’s so deep and can’t be expected to pick out an arsenal type ball every game from deep. He controls it when we are on top, but we need round pegs in round holes in front of him or he gets all the work on him when we’re being pressed. We need Wilf back fit and ready to support him better.

Then at the back, playing 5 invites pressure on us because we have 1 less player forward, so teams get higher onto our back line more often. This means we have to last ditch defence more than we would have to if he played less negative, and that isn’t a good situation when you have 2 kids Thomas and Justin and 2/3 old or past it players in Fuchs , Albrighton and Evans.

 

We are a shadow of how we were and it’s mainly due to having 2 many weak static players in the team and not enough pace and ability.

We are actually currently a very very average team and sometimes when we score first we can just sh*thouse a win but we are nearly hopeless when we concede first in a game because we have absolutely no movement or threat in the team and it’s too easy to play against us if we concede first.

 

This has been a huge problem for ages and when you look into it deeply you can see why when you actually analyse the players we are using.

In defence to BR we have been hugely injury hit and it’s been hard for him to get our top team out, however he has become a negative coach. I don’t believe he believes in the ability of our team and has turned into a scared puppy.

Va Fulham that formation and tactical set up was unacceptable imo and if he does it today vs Sheffield Utd I will start to lose faith in him, because I don’t need to see the game to know that we WONT win if we set up like that , despite the opposition having 1 draw 9 defeats out of 10 I’m still extremely unconfident.

Although I agree with a lot of this, Tielemans is having his best season for us, Vardy is still scoring a lot of goals and Barnes goals output have improved too. There is way more to come from this squad though and we are still 3rd and qualified for the last 32 in the EL. It's crazy to think that but it's like we haven't really got out of 2nd gear. I wish Rodgers would lose a bit of that pragmatic approach he has installed this season but maybe we did need this at times previously and either didn't do it or didn't know how. I am just desperate for Ricardo and Castagne to come back and see how this team can evolve. Barnes can and will be devastating with Castagne supporting him. Ricardo and Ünder too against some opposition is going to be brutal.

[Ric Flair]

21 hours ago, matty98 said:

I get the impression that he's desperate to be seen as some sort of tactical genius so feels the need to make strange team selections so that when they come off he gets more credit. 

He can't really win though can he. Last season we were criticising him for not having another way of playing and the way we lay down and let the better sides overpower us. This season he's admitted he has had to put his footballing principles to one side to try and get some results with the squad available he has vs the better sides and low and behold its working. We won 1 away game in 2020 on new years day up until the end of the season. This season we have won 5 out of a possible 6 against some very good opposition as well. 

 

I honestly don't think there is any other club in the world of our ilk that if they were where we were in the league and cup that would be this negative and critical. 

[matty98]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He can't really win though can he. Last season we were criticising him for not having another way of playing and the way we lay down and let the better sides overpower us. This season he's admitted he has had to put his footballing principles to one side to try and get some results with the squad available he has vs the better sides and low and behold its working. We won 1 away game in 2020 on new years day up until the end of the season. This season we have won 5 out of a possible 6 against some very good opposition as well. 

 

I honestly don't think there is any other club in the world of our ilk that if they were where we were in the league and cup that would be this negative and critical. 

I have no problem with negative tactics against the top teams. 

Just feel that Rodgers is massively overcomplicating games against weaker teams. Fair enough we won yesterday, but I feel it could've been a lot more comfortable if we'd played a more attacking line up.

My post was aimed at how he's approaching games against weaker teams. He's making them more complicated than they should be imo.

Last season we brushed weaker teams aside in the first half of the season playing an attacking 4141 and now we're struggling against them due to negative line ups. Just seems like a simple solution to me. Especially now Tielemans and Maddison are both fit.

[Ric Flair]

6 minutes ago, matty98 said:

I have no problem with negative tactics against the top teams. 

Just feel that Rodgers is massively overcomplicating games against weaker teams. Fair enough we won yesterday, but I feel it could've been a lot more comfortable if we'd played a more attacking line up.

My post was aimed at how he's approaching games against weaker teams. He's making them more complicated than they should be imo.

Last season we brushed weaker teams aside in the first half of the season playing an attacking 4141 and now we're struggling against them due to negative line ups. Just seems like a simple solution to me. Especially now Tielemans and Maddison are both fit.

I totally agree, why he can't be pragmatic with 3 at the back vs the top sides and then be more attacking vs the dross I don't know. Its not as if this 3 at the back vs the mediocre sides is actually having that much success, if it was then fine. Our record at game this season vs teams worse than us is abysmal and yet last season we seldom had too many issues in similar fixtures playing 4-1-4-1, its as if he can't differentiate between the two.

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I totally agree, why he can't be pragmatic with 3 at the back vs the top sides and then be more attacking vs the dross I don't know. Its not as if this 3 at the back vs the mediocre sides is actually having that much success, if it was then fine. Our record at game this season vs teams worse than us is abysmal and yet last season we seldom had too many issues in similar fixtures playing 4-1-4-1, its as if he can't differentiate between the two.

I'm going to reiterate - he's on the record about this. It will remain like this until enough players are available to revert - I'm pretty sure he's said that in so many words.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'm going to reiterate - he's on the record about this. It will remain like this until enough players are available to revert - I'm pretty sure he's said that in so many words.

Yes he has, but that doesn't mean he is correct. I don't buy the fact we can't play 4 at the back vs the mediocre sides in this league and deploy more attacking threat, its not as if this pragmatic approach is having much success against these sorts of teams at home. In fact of the times we have play a back 4 this season we have won 3 and lost 2. Away at West Brom (crap team) at home to Burnley (crap team) at home to Zorya (crap team) and the 2 losses at home to Villa and away at Zorya both with late goals. I just think there is slight room for improvement against the poorer sides in this regard whilst we wait for the likes of Ricardo and Castagne to return.

 

The system we deploy away from home against the top sides is bang on, he deserves huge credit for implementing this so well.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes he has, but that doesn't mean he is correct. I don't buy the fact we can't play 4 at the back vs the mediocre sides in this league and deploy more attacking threat, its not as if this pragmatic approach is having much success against these sorts of teams at home. In fact of the times we have play a back 4 this season we have won 3 and lost 2. Away at West Brom (crap team) at home to Burnley (crap team) at home to Zorya (crap team) and the 2 losses at home to Villa and away at Zorya both with late goals. I just think there is slight room for improvement against the poorer sides in this regard whilst we wait for the likes of Ricardo and Castagne to return.

 

The system we deploy away from home against the top sides is bang on, he deserves huge credit for implementing this so well.

I don't necessarily disagree, but this is why I don't tear my hair out about it when he plays the back 3/5 - I'm expecting it.

[RumbleFox]

23 hours ago, Vazman said:

They are indeed, and its great to have such a thorough fact checker, such as yourself to keep us all informed.

Mate no one is trying to shut you down just debating with you. Never had you down as a snowflake. X 

[LVFox]

People are constantly questioning 3/5 at the back, but I honestly don't think Fofana is really trusted in a two just yet. I think if Cags and one of Ricardo & Castagne were fit we would be seeing 4 at the back a lot more.

I don't think we've had a match where we have played well but not got anything because of the formation, it's just an easy finger to point when we don't play well.

Edited 7 December 2020 by LVocey

[messerschmitt]

24 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yes he has, but that doesn't mean he is correct. I don't buy the fact we can't play 4 at the back vs the mediocre sides in this league and deploy more attacking threat, its not as if this pragmatic approach is having much success against these sorts of teams at home. In fact of the times we have play a back 4 this season we have won 3 and lost 2. Away at West Brom (crap team) at home to Burnley (crap team) at home to Zorya (crap team) and the 2 losses at home to Villa and away at Zorya both with late goals. I just think there is slight room for improvement against the poorer sides in this regard whilst we wait for the likes of Ricardo and Castagne to return.

 

The system we deploy away from home against the top sides is bang on, he deserves huge credit for implementing this so well.

I though that we could have risked 4 at the back yesterday, I know the players fitting in at the back are not first choice but sometimes you've just got to go with it and be brave, I thought with the way the game was going yesterday we would revert to a back 4 given the lack of much threat, they only really looked dangerous from corners and that's going to be the case whatever formation. Antway I'm not convinced we look any stronger at the back with 3 CB's.

[BKLFox]

20 minutes ago, LVocey said:

People are constantly questioning 3/5 at the back, but I honestly don't think Fofana is really trusted in a two just yet. I think if Cags and one of Ricardo & Castagne were fit we would be seeing 4 at the back a lot more.

I don't think we've had a match where we have played well but not got anything because of the formation, it's just an easy finger to point when we don't play well.

Bingo

[Ric Flair]

13 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I though that we could have risked 4 at the back yesterday, I know the players fitting in at the back are not first choice but sometimes you've just got to go with it and be brave, I thought with the way the game was going yesterday we would revert to a back 4 given the lack of much threat, they only really looked dangerous from corners and that's going to be the case whatever formation. Antway I'm not convinced we look any stronger at the back with 3 CB's.

I also think Fuchs is having a howler in the last 3-4 games and Luke Thomas looked good in a back 4 the other night so it's got to be an option. You don't let crap teams off the hook by playing less attacking players than them like we did vs Fulham!!

[messerschmitt]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I also think Fuchs is having a howler in the last 3-4 games and Luke Thomas looked good in a back 4 the other night so it's got to be an option. You don't let crap teams off the hook by playing less attacking players than them like we did vs Fulham!!

I tottally agree with you, I didn't want to be too critical, prem league winner and all that but he gave the ball away 4 or 5 times dangerously but we got away with it, Thomas did it once against Totenham last season ang got a lot of criticism. Even if you argue that Fuchs is better than Thomas (which I don't) its got to be better as ones declining and the other won't improve not being in the squad. I would have thought that yesterday was perfect for Thomas and to rest Fuchs.

[coolhandfox]

Whilst I like us to be a little more aggressive and impose ourselves, this is a season like no other and we are fighting on two fronts.

 

No pre-season, 17 games in 85 days, on average one every 5 days with a host of key players injured.

 

We are never going to play a back 4 when the only fit options are a 19 year old LB or 34 year old LB. (JJ would have to play RB who is also only 22), a 19 year old CB and another CB not 100%.

 

Our other defensive options are a 36 year old CB with a bad back and a 31 year old winger.

 

Also bearing in mind we pressed and ran our socks of in the first half off 2019/20 and then blew up as we couldn't keep it up with a smallish squad. 

 

Is it any surprise he being more conservative and has maybe learnt a thing or two.............. 

 

If we carry on at our current points per game we hit 73 pts, we only go 81 pts when we won it.

 

We have won as many games as Spurs, Liverpool all on 7 and more then anyone else, if we could learn to draw rather then lose we would be laughing!

 

 

 

Edited 7 December 2020 by coolhandfox