Rodgers

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, matty98 said:

I have no problem with negative tactics against the top teams. 

Just feel that Rodgers is massively overcomplicating games against weaker teams. Fair enough we won yesterday, but I feel it could've been a lot more comfortable if we'd played a more attacking line up.

My post was aimed at how he's approaching games against weaker teams. He's making them more complicated than they should be imo.

Last season we brushed weaker teams aside in the first half of the season playing an attacking 4141 and now we're struggling against them due to negative line ups. Just seems like a simple solution to me. Especially now Tielemans and Maddison are both fit.

I see this argument and I would like to buy into it, but I cannot.

The idea of playing defensive against teams who come to attack is illogical to me, just as playing attacking, against a team who seek to frustrate and grab a goal on the break.

If you attack teams who attack, you do two things, you restrict, you break, the chances of the win increase, and whilst I accept we could hide behind the "they have better players" argument, it is clearly not quite that simple as results have indicated.

And of the defensive need, if you attack teams who are defensively disciplined, you yourself become liable to be counter attacked, you have to draw them out and then attack from a position of defensive strength.

[Bryn]

3 points off top and through in Europe after an injury crisis.

There's really no argument that concludes we're not having a good season. I acknowledge that there is frustration to be found in our tactics and lineups at times this season and it's always hard when you know you're clear at the top of the league if things had gone slightly differently, but you only have to look at how teams have crashed and burned after finding themselves in the Europa League to see how well we're doing under immensely difficult circumstances.

[Guest SO1]

8 minutes ago, Bryn said:

3 points off top and through in Europe after an injury crisis.

There's really no argument that concludes we're not having a good season. I acknowledge that there is frustration to be found in our tactics and lineups at times this season and it's always hard when you know you're clear at the top of the league if things had gone slightly differently, but you only have to look at how teams have crashed and burned after finding themselves in the Europa League to see how well we're doing under immensely difficult circumstances.

Exactly! We're in survival mode. Just have to accept that people believe what they want to believe. Kind of like a madman yelling at the Moon. Saying nothing in particular.

[daddylonglegs]

We’re definitely having a good season - that doesn’t mean he’s exempt from criticism.

 

Every manager is stubborn but not every manager heaps praise on themselves when they get it right, and refuses to take responsibility when they don’t.

 

Just my opinion but I think he’s an arrogant piece of work. That doesn’t really matter because when he gets it right (which I believe he will when we’re back to full fitness), we’re great fun to watch. 
 

 

[Vazman]

4 hours ago, RumbleFox said:

Mate no one is trying to shut you down just debating with you. Never had you down as a snowflake. X 

I know that mate soon as we won had to turn my attention to work👍

[sacreblueits442]

7 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

I see this argument and I would like to buy into it, but I cannot.

The idea of playing defensive against teams who come to attack is illogical to me, just as playing attacking, against a team who seek to frustrate and grab a goal on the break.

If you attack teams who attack, you do two things, you restrict, you break, the chances of the win increase, and whilst I accept we could hide behind the "they have better players" argument, it is clearly not quite that simple as results have indicated.

And of the defensive need, if you attack teams who are defensively disciplined, you yourself become liable to be counter attacked, you have to draw them out and then attack from a position of defensive strength.

...just looking at the clubs who play attacking football, who we have beaten this season!!!

Taking Manchester City, sitting with a Low Block, played well, it is a problem for them, Pep plays in one way and we gain the upper hand by countering. Leeds are much the same, once again playing a style which is single minded and plays into the Low Block problematic game.

  Our injury problems and the players available, led us to this style and if we had the full roster available we would never have adopted that way of playing. In order to contest the games we needed to have been setup in a positive way but the game plan would have been as usual, incoherent.

  As for us playing against the Low Block, we needed the ability of someone like Ünder to give us the ability to unlock defenses, as sooner or later your opponents will have to move forward to attack your goal, the trick is to move the ball quickly, in a sense counter them or having someone who can beat a man, to pull their defense out of position, in order to break through.

[Dahnsouff]

@sacreblueits442 Maybe, it just seems slightly odd despite its obviousness, but I have been wrong before. 

[deanolegend1989]

This formation is the biggest problem in nearly every game, IF our objective is to win the game.

We make games such as Sheffield Utd, Fulham, West Ham etc much more difficult than they should be!

This formation does impact on our players, and I never understand it when people blame it on players performances always if we lose.

Fulham was a classic example. 2nd half we looked blunt and Fulham restricted us, but honestly, we played a decent half but we gave ourselves a tougher task than it should of been because we set up wrong.

Our formation tenant the game is 50/50 when Imo if we just played 4141 and wernt so scared it would be at least 80/20.

 

I understand in the games vs Man City etc, it makes sense. On % we are more likely to sh*thouse a win than beat them punch vs punch so it’s understandable in these games where we need to be horrible.

West ham, Fulham and Sheffield Utd are the huge mistakes.

We bashed West Brom and Burnley playing attacking football, we then were pragmatic vs City. Great.

now West Ham at home, horses for course, that was never a game for armarty and 5 at the back and leaving 2 in midfield vs West Ham’s strong midfield, Antonio has no pace 1 up top so just leave 2 up top and an extra body in the middle. That was a huge mistake.

Its understandable he changed vs Villa and we lost with a hugely inferior squad, no Maddison and Vardy of course that game was at a bad time with our confidence after WHam and our squad and Villa were on the peak of all peaks after Liverpool 7-2. We gave a good fight, the formation was better but ultimately that was a night our options were stretched. Forfana looked great in a 4 and we restricted Villa most of the night, so hardly looked overpowered by playing a 4!

Going back to a 5 was understandable for Arsenal, Leeds and even Wolves(although I disagreed at the time vs Wolves, it wasn’t a completely crazy decision).

Then playing Liverpool he should of put 3 in the centre and he got it wrong, but it’s not a huge mistake and don’t blame him playing a 5 as it had been working result wise and don’t change a broke system.

The Fulham game though was where I lost faith, that was the biggest mistake since the West Ham game I thought he learnt from and it appeared he hadnt, what happened was inevitable. Sheffield Utd he then just stuck to it and despite winning, it’s clearly not working on the whole in any game where we have to press for the win.

I get the injuries , but no one can genuinely tell me that they believe a 5 has made us look much more secure than a 4 this season. However what it does do is limit us going forward. Even vs Sheffield Utd, probably our best attacking performance 1st half since playing 5 at the back , we still should of dropped points vs the worst team in premier league history debatably.

 

We are in a fantastic position but that is mainly due to the pure quality of our individuals rather than the overall system. Vardys conversion rates are through the roof, Tielemens is on absolute peak performance, Defensively we are holding firm despite our injuries and it’s a fantastic effort. The sad thing for me is, I think we can be better and whilst BR is doing a good job , he needs to have A little more ambition in games where teams won’t press us high and commit numbers. 5 at the back in these games is just counter productive and stupid.

Brighton at home is another one where if he persists with 5 at the back we will struggle like mad.

If Danny welbeck can’t be handled in a 4 then really what have we come to?

Dunk and Webster would much prefer it to sit on Vardy than have to deal with runners and movement.

Lampty will cause us a lot more problems if we sit back than if we attack them and he’s having to defend.

This is another game for me that if and when he inevitably plays 5 at the back, we will really struggle with and will make it a 50/50 game.

 

This is overall my biggest gripe, too many times He plays the wrong formation and can’t adjust.
A game I’d actually love the 5 will be vs Spurs, this is exactly the type it would be great in! Brighton no. Everton close but wouldn’t begrudge either way.

 

Vs Brighton -

Kasper

Albrighton Fofana Evans Justin

            Ndidi Tielemens

               Maddison

Perez(deserves another go) Vardy Barnes

 

Vs Spurs

Kasper

Ricardo Fofana Evans Justin Castange

                  Ndidi Tielemens

                      Maddison

                  Vardy Nacho

[HighPeakFox]

And I'm going to be a stuck record once more, but much as we can all debate the above, BR has stated as clearly as managers do that he'll be sticking to the known back 3/5 for the foreseeable - that is until, he has enough first choice defenders available. Pining for different will lead to disappointment.

[Philkeavo]

I should start by saying I am big Brendan Rodgers fan and that we are very lucky to have him as our manager. But that does not mean he is immune from criticism. The article in today’s Times rightly singles out Rodgers for his team selection yesterday. We all recognise that managing player loading, particularly our star man Vardy is sensible. But this argument is to some extent undermined when he puts him on the bench and then has to bring him on when we have to chase the game. He either needs a rest or he doesn’t, if he does, he should not have been in the matchday squad.

 

I also found BR’s comments about Nacho’s penalty miss peculiar “he scored 5 out of 5 in training”. So Kelechi is confident and displays great ability in training, no shit Sherlock. The proof is in his game day performances which have been, in the main, woeful. BR is a great manager but is also a bit of a gambler, perhaps that is what make him successful. He is also frustrating when he makes these wholesale changes when every man and his dog could see that playing a strong line up would have more than likely resulted in a win. We don’t know the sport science stats behind why some players are rested, etc. and if we make the top 4 this season his decision (in this game) will be seen as vindicated. I pray that BR is proven right.

 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weakened-leicester-city-squander-chance-to-pile-the-pressure-on-liverpool-fs2kjjnfv?shareToken=0e94b27c071833bedec963b835471e15

Edited 29 December 2020 by Philkeavo

[Carl the Llama]

35 minutes ago, Philkeavo said:

I should start by saying I am big Brendan Rodgers fan and that we are very lucky to have him as our manager. But that does not mean he is immune from criticism. The article in today’s Times rightly singles out Rodgers for his team selection yesterday. We all recognise that managing player loading, particularly our star man Vardy is sensible. But this argument is to some extent undermined when he puts him on the bench and then has to bring him on when we have to chase the game. He either needs a rest or he doesn’t, if he does, he should not have been in the matchday squad.

 

I also found BR’s comments about Nacho’s penalty miss peculiar “he scored 5 out of 5 in training”. So Kelechi is confident and displays great ability in training, no shit Sherlock. The proof is in his game day performances which have been, in the main, woeful. BR is a great manager but is also a bit of a gambler, perhaps that is what make him successful. He is also frustrating when he makes these wholesale changes when every man and his dog could see that playing a strong line up would have more than likely resulted in a win. We don’t know the sport science stats behind why some players are rested, etc. and if we make the top 4 this season his decision (in this game) will be seen as vindicated. I pray that BR is proven right.

 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weakened-leicester-city-squander-chance-to-pile-the-pressure-on-liverpool-fs2kjjnfv?shareToken=0e94b27c071833bedec963b835471e15

This is why pundits suck.  If we're Liverpool that article's about how we're unlucky to be forced into resting players by the hectic schedule, instead Brendan's squandered an opportunity by not being brave enough to ignore it and play the same XI each week until everyone breaks.

[ScrumpyJack]

While I might risk righteous condemnation considering my position as the leader of the Rodgers' PR department, I was not disappointed with yesterday's result at all.

 

Hopefully key players received enough rest that will benefit the squad in the long run. It is massively contrived to consider Crystal Palace as weak. They were a team with a point to prove, and one miserable defeat does not mean that team is written off. Cases in point; Aston Villa are not world beaters, Man City are not a sunday league team, Southampton are not in the championship.

 

But I still think there was enough quality in the team to come away with a result. If Ian Nacho had his shooting boots on, we would have walked away with the 3 points. I don't think Rodgers' is to fault here, rather an unfortunate penalty is.

 

Nice to see Amartey start, positionally he was a bit suspect. But it finally answered the age old question of what would happen if he started at centreback. The answer? Fairly average.

 

Another positive to take from the game, Ian Nacho, Perez and Choudhury despite not performing brilliantly did show hunger. I love seeing a player looking pissed off at being substituted, it shows that they want to play. 

[Simonb]

16 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

This is why pundits suck.  If we're Liverpool that article's about how we're unlucky to be forced into resting players by the hectic schedule, instead Brendan's squandered an opportunity by not being brave enough to ignore it and play the same XI each week until everyone breaks.

Completely agree... I'm starting to find most games we play nowadays the punditry is very anti Leicester 

 

Yesterday it was all, I hope Hodgsons smiling after 90 mins, I want Townshend to have a great game.. Against Everton it was all about how great ancelotti is doing there (achieved nothing by the way) 

 

When were flying they jump on the band wagon... But any given opportunity to criticise us is taken

 

Yes.. Players were swapped yesterday.. But it's not like they're players that haven't played on a while.. All had minutes... Only problem yesterday was that nacho simply is not good enough, but it was worth it for one game if its potentially protected vardy from being out long term 

[PhillippaT]

On 07/12/2020 at 12:45, coolhandfox said:

 

 

We have won as many games as Spurs, Liverpool all on 7 and more then anyone else, if we could learn to draw rather then lose we would be laughing!

We managed that against Man Utd, but then failed to follow it up with a win against CP...  Still, better than losing both, right? 

[5waller5]

I’m a big BR fan. My slight criticism of him v Palace wasn’t the initial team selection or the subs.... 

 

it was that he watched us dominate for 45 minutes, then Palace come back into it after half time and waited for them to score.

 

The time to make the subs was when it was apparent they’d woken up at half time. We let them steal the initiative. 

[Hollyfox]

Penalty miss 

Decent headed chance missed

Kasper being beaten at his near post

Perez missing a very decent chance with the last kick of the game. 

 

It was 2 points dropped, without a doubt, but the players have to look at themselves a bit. 

 

West Ham away last season, Brendan was hailed a tactical genius. 

 

[Babylon]

Whilst I was pissed off yesterday, I'd not seen what he said about the injuries we'd picked up. With that in mind and the fact we had so many coming back fro injury, then I'm going to write it off as just one of those days where he didn't have a huge amount of choice. I'd rather not take the risk on players and hopefully have them available in the long term. 

[Chocolate Teapot]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

Whilst I was pissed off yesterday, I'd not seen what he said about the injuries we'd picked up. With that in mind and the fact we had so many coming back fro injury, then I'm going to write it off as just one of those days where he didn't have a huge amount of choice. I'd rather not take the risk on players and hopefully have them available in the long term. 

He can't win really.

 

Hes got loads of stick for rushing players back from injury and now he's getting stick for resting players. We'll see by the end of Jan whether it was a good decision - I reckon it was.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

With a definite need to change personnel, turn around time and injury wise, the performance in the first half and the ultimate fight back were fine and if any side deserved a win, it was us. Still disappointed with the result but it's gone now. 

 

My one issue with the team yesterday and selection more generally when it comes to picking a weakened 11 is that BR does not seem to have realised that having Perez out wide and Iheanacho leading the line actually nullifies what they are good at. 

Edited 29 December 2020 by Cadno'r Cymoedd

[coolhandfox]

37 minutes ago, PhillippaT said:

We managed that against Man Utd, but then failed to follow it up with a win against CP...  Still, better than losing both, right? 

100% if we can't win, then draw. The reason Liverpool are top is they don't get beat they have won no more games then us and Everton, 1 more then Villa and Man U (All be it they have games in hand). They are top because they have lost only 1 game all season. 

 

I'd argue the didn't turn up point 69% possession and 17 shots, without Vardy, Forfana, Teilimans, Maddison, Ndidi, Riccardo, Castange, Soyuncu, Under, Albrighton.

 

We can get a result away at a decent side without out those players starting show how far we have come.

 

Just need better shooting boots

Edited 29 December 2020 by coolhandfox

[StanSP]

52 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

I’m a big BR fan. My slight criticism of him v Palace wasn’t the initial team selection or the subs.... 

 

it was that he watched us dominate for 45 minutes, then Palace come back into it after half time and waited for them to score.

 

The time to make the subs was when it was apparent they’d woken up at half time. We let them steal the initiative. 

Tielemans came on before they scored. 

 

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

 

[winteriscoming]

I have to admit he’s done very well considering the amount of games we’ve had to play and the injuries to key players. I think the test will come in the second half of the season as we crumbled last season I just hope he and the players have learnt from it. Hopefully we will have some players back from injury and that will give us a spark to win more matches. 

[Jattdogg]

26 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Progress with no title?!??! Out! Lol

 

Jokes

[STUHILL]

2 hours ago, Philkeavo said:

I should start by saying I am big Brendan Rodgers fan and that we are very lucky to have him as our manager. But that does not mean he is immune from criticism. The article in today’s Times rightly singles out Rodgers for his team selection yesterday. We all recognise that managing player loading, particularly our star man Vardy is sensible. But this argument is to some extent undermined when he puts him on the bench and then has to bring him on when we have to chase the game. He either needs a rest or he doesn’t, if he does, he should not have been in the matchday squad.

 

I also found BR’s comments about Nacho’s penalty miss peculiar “he scored 5 out of 5 in training”. So Kelechi is confident and displays great ability in training, no shit Sherlock. The proof is in his game day performances which have been, in the main, woeful. BR is a great manager but is also a bit of a gambler, perhaps that is what make him successful. He is also frustrating when he makes these wholesale changes when every man and his dog could see that playing a strong line up would have more than likely resulted in a win. We don’t know the sport science stats behind why some players are rested, etc. and if we make the top 4 this season his decision (in this game) will be seen as vindicated. I pray that BR is proven right.

 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weakened-leicester-city-squander-chance-to-pile-the-pressure-on-liverpool-fs2kjjnfv?shareToken=0e94b27c071833bedec963b835471e15

I am struggling to understand why people don't see Rodger's thinking with Vardy...

 

The ideal scenario was for Vardy to be rested the full game. This would have happened if Iheanacho hadn't had such a stinker. We should have been 2-0 up by half-time and then managed the game from there, and left Vardy and Tielemans on the bench to rest. Vardy needed a rest but we also wanted to win, so Rodger's made the smartest choice available IMO. It's about risk vs reward, and he and his staff will have a whole lot more information available than we or the Times have! He listed the exact reasons for each change too, with a number of players having certain niggles to manage. 

 

Criticising him for commenting that Iheanacho had scored all 5 of his practice ones is a new high for nitpicking too! 

 

I see posters moaning that they get criticised for being critical of Rodgers, but they should expect it with posts like this tbh