Controversial but.........

[Voll Blau]

3 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Top players want champions league football and don't care if you win the FA Cup if you aren't in the champions league  winning the FA Cup doesn't bring them in.

There's no point in having "top players" if you're not going to use them to win things. Besides, top players value ambitious clubs above anything else - a club is not ambitious if it is not trying to win anything and everything it can.

[fuchsntf]

One day soon there might not be a CL

To qualify for...

Big 6 take all the cake & crumbs, then the bloody candles & serviettes..

Not least drag the last Bridesmaid away by her hair...

 

[Fox92]

19 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Top players want champions league football and don't care if you win the FA Cup if you aren't in the champions league  winning the FA Cup doesn't bring them in.

Top players want to win stuff. End of story.

 

If players are satisfied with just CL football then why do Spurs still lose players? Arsenal finished 4th every season under Wenger towards the back end of his career, without really winning much, but they kept losing players.

 

Genuine question.

 

The whole "if you finish top 4 you can get top players in and your best players want to stay" is incorrect.

Edited 17 March 2021 by Fox92

[Footballwipe]

Genuinely not sure why we enter the FA and League Cup anymore, no-one wants to win them.

 

Like people have said (and we say this every season) there will NEVER be a good time to go for the FA Cup. This season it's to make sure we don't repeat 19/20 and finish in there.

 

Next season we'll sacrifice it to make sure we get there again. If we fail, we'll want to sacrifice it to get back there. Then maybe we drop to a relegation battle and hey ho, we're sacrificing it to stay up.

 

So honestly, why enter? They're just an inconvenience to people seemingly (though I'm sure I'll see you all there on FA Cup final day.)

 

I want to win things, I want to experience days out at Wembley and cup finals. We should be fully capable of doing both, and I just think it's such a shitty attitude to say "yeah we don't need to win that, go for this."

 

48 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Long term success is winning trophies. You don't get a trophy for coming fourth.

I'm sure Arsenal and their fans can also attest to this. Finishing fourth all those times didn't seem to work out in the long term for them. UCL spots do not equal long term solidity in some positions.

[Stuntman_Mike]

1 minute ago, Footballwipe said:

Genuinely not sure why we enter the FA and League Cup anymore, no-one wants to win them.

 

Like people have said (and we say this every season) there will NEVER be a good time to go for the FA Cup. This season it's to make sure we don't repeat 19/20 and finish in there.

 

Next season we'll sacrifice it to make sure we get there again. If we fail, we'll want to sacrifice it to get back there. Then maybe we drop to a relegation battle and hey ho, we're sacrificing it to stay up.

 

So honestly, why enter? They're just an inconvenience to people seemingly (though I'm sure I'll see you all there on FA Cup final day.)

 

I want to win things, I want to experience days out at Wembley and cup finals. We should be fully capable of doing both, and I just think it's such a shitty attitude to say "yeah we don't need to win that, go for this."

 

I'm sure Arsenal and their fans can also attest to this. Finishing fourth all those times didn't seem to work out in the long term for them. UCL spots do not equal long term solidity in some positions.

Choosing to finish 4th over a FA cup win is very short sighted imo. 

 

People say it helps attract players being the CL because the money it brings in but there is still a ceiling on who we will attract with our wage structure. 

 

 

 

 

[Foxxed]

7 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

Choosing to finish 4th over a FA cup win is very short sighted imo. 

 

People say it helps attract players being the CL because the money it brings in but there is still a ceiling on who we will attract with our wage structure. 

 

 

 

 

And the ceiling will be raised with CL money?

[Raw Dykes]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Because I'm just kind of sick of making the same argument again and again. I do think it's a weird attitude for fans of a club like ourselves to have.

 

If anyone's seriously offended then  I apologise, but it gets demoralising to see the kind of fanbase we've become when we consider winning the FA Cup somehow beneath us even though we've never actually won it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe the FA Cup to be beneath us in any way. It's just given the choice of top 4 or an FA Cup this season, I'd pick top 4, as I think it's going to be much more beneficial to the club - another CL campaign testing ourselves against the best on the continent, 10s of millions in the bank, our best players more likely to want to stay and we'll be better able to sign the players we want.

 

I think we're in a very strong position to really upset the big club cartel, maybe permanently, and it's not going to last forever. I think it could well be important that we get in the CL soon before we're seen as nearly men and we miss the boat.

 

We're in the FA Cup every single year.

 

The boost a top 4 finish will give us will make it more likely that we win an FA Cup or two, anyway.

[Stuntman_Mike]

6 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

And the ceiling will be raised with CL money?

Potentially over a sustained period, but that isn't a given. We could drop out of CL next year in the quarters again and not make top 4 again for a few years.

Confirming a prestigious domestic trophy we've never won would forever be remembered and would still be something huge to build on.

[Raw Dykes]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I don't want to go round in circles on this again, all I'll say is that Spurs make the CL often and don't win anything, and we laugh at them. I don't want to be like Spurs. 

You know there are clubs that get in the CL and also do win things, right?

[Sol thewall Bamba]

5 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

You know there are clubs that get in the CL and also do win things, right?

We probably won't win the league again and we definitely won't win the CL, so what does that leave?

[Mike Oxlong]

Only a cabbage head would think that having a preference for top 4 equates to not wanting to win the FA cup 

[Voll Blau]

19 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe the FA Cup to be beneath us in any way. It's just given the choice of top 4 or an FA Cup this season, I'd pick top 4, as I think it's going to be much more beneficial to the club - another CL campaign testing ourselves against the best on the continent, 10s of millions in the bank, our best players more likely to want to stay and we'll be better able to sign the players we want.

 

I think we're in a very strong position to really upset the big club cartel, maybe permanently, and it's not going to last forever. I think it could well be important that we get in the CL soon before we're seen as nearly men and we miss the boat.

 

We're in the FA Cup every single year.

 

The boost a top 4 finish will give us will make it more likely that we win an FA Cup or two, anyway.

The fact that it's not going to last forever means we should be making hay while the sun shines - not just with our bank balance (who cares unless they're refunding our season tickets with the extra cash) or league positions, but in terms actually having tangible things to show for it at every single opportunity.

 

In future we're more likely to be seen as "nearly men" from this point in history if our only silverware was what the football world regards as a fluke title win five years ago. In the coming years nobody is going to use any league finish since (unless we finish first again) as an argument to judge our success by.

[ARTY_FOX]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

There's no point in having "top players" if you're not going to use them to win things. Besides, top players value ambitious clubs above anything else - a club is not ambitious if it is not trying to win anything and everything it can.

Yea a club should win everything it can, but that's not the question that's been put forward here. It's either or and I know which ones more likely to keep your best players and its not the FA Cup. 

 

I we win the FA Cup for the next 3 years and fail to qualify for the champions league do you think the players would be happy or do you think the better ones would be looking for somewhere that plays champs league? 

Edited 17 March 2021 by ARTY_FOX

[ARTY_FOX]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Top players want to win stuff. End of story.

 

If players are satisfied with just CL football then why do Spurs still lose players? Arsenal finished 4th every season under Wenger towards the back end of his career, without really winning much, but they kept losing players.

 

Genuine question.

 

The whole "if you finish top 4 you can get top players in and your best players want to stay" is incorrect.

So if we drop out of top 4 again and fail to qualify for the next 3 years say, but we win the fa cup for the next 3 on the trot, do you honestly believe our better players would settle for it? 

Edited 17 March 2021 by ARTY_FOX

[Raw Dykes]

2 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

The fact that it's not going to last forever means we should be making hay while the sun shines - not just with our bank balance (who cares unless they're refunding our season tickets with the extra cash) or league positions, but in terms actually having tangible things to show for it at every single opportunity.

 

In future we're more likely to be seen as "nearly men" from this point in history if our only silverware was what the football world regards as a fluke title win five years ago. In the coming years nobody is going to use any league finish since (unless we finish first again) as an argument to judge our success by.

I care about the club's bank balance. I don't know why you would only care if you're going to get some of it yourself. I don't know why I have to say this, but the richer the club is, the more it can spend on the squad, and the better the squad can be. The better the squad is, the more chance there is of silverware over the following few seasons. Also, the higher the chance of another top 4 finish and another cash injection.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that 2nd-4th place finishes are what they want because they look good in the history books. No-one cares about that. I think the people who want top 4 want it because it means CL and everything that comes with it.

 

I believe that getting into the CL could give the club the boost to its finances and reputation that could propel it onto the next level. I think it could even be the beginning of a golden era where we're regularly in contention for trophies. If it's a choice between that or one FA Cup, then, for me, it's an easy decision.

[Fox92]

21 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

So if we drop out of top 4 again and fail to qualify for the next 3 years say, but we win the fa cup for the next 3 on the trot, do you honestly believe our better players would settle for it? 

No, never said I thought that.

 

You said top players want to play in CL, but my point is they want to win stuff too. I didn't mention the FA Cup. My point was, take a club like Spurs who play CL football season after season but they still have players that leave to win trophies (ie Kyle Walker).

 

People are deluded if they think playing CL football alone with keep our better players here. If Man City/Liverpool/Chelsea came sniffing then they'd be off. Those sort of clubs guarantee CL football and winning trophies every season.

[Corky]

5 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

The thing is there's never a 'good' time to go for the cup, if that's the right way of phrasing it. When we were near relegation people just said concentrate on staying in the PL, then when we were finishing mid table people were saying lets just focus on getting EL, now we're saying lets just focus on getting CL. If we want to be taken seriously as a club, then we should have the squad and the resources to compete for top 4/6 and try to win the trophies we're involved in, especially if we go out of Europe fairly early (last 32 in this case).

 

I'm sure this debate happens every year and some different reason is given for not trying in the FA Cup.

 

I'm sure the match thread will be pleasant should we struggle on Sunday regardless of the fact it's not important.......

[ARM1968]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

One day soon there might not be a CL

To qualify for...

Big 6 take all the cake & crumbs, then the bloody candles & serviettes..

Not least drag the last Bridesmaid away by her hair...

 

We’re you at that wedding? Sheeet!!!!

[ARTY_FOX]

12 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

No, never said I thought that.

 

You said top players want to play in CL, but my point is they want to win stuff too. I didn't mention the FA Cup. My point was, take a club like Spurs who play CL football season after season but they still have players that leave to win trophies (ie Kyle Walker).

 

People are deluded if they think playing CL football alone with keep our better players here. If Man City/Liverpool/Chelsea came sniffing then they'd be off. Those sort of clubs guarantee CL football and winning trophies every season.

I agree with the thought that only champions league football isn't enough to keep your best players, but so are people that think they'd rather have the FA Cup than play in the champions league. 

 

Although it's all abit pointless anyway because we won the league and atleast 3 of our best players wanted out 

Edited 17 March 2021 by ARTY_FOX

[fuchsntf]

7 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

We’re you at that wedding? Sheeet!!!!

Yup ..Euefa led a right Oki koki..!!

[murphy]

As long as we try our best in both competitions, what will be will be.  Just so long as we are not suggesting resting players (unnecessary now) and throwing the cup tie?  I don't think anyone is suggesting that so there is no need to make some kind of choice or prioritise.  

 

If anyone is suggesting we do that however, I'm gonna track you down and leave a dirty protest on your car bonnet.

[ftfagos]

Both for me. I know this doesn't answer the question. Vardy to score the winner in FA Cup Final in ET this year & again in ET in CL Final next year. There is one final chapter to be written in his great story. 

[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

I agree with the thought that only champions league football isn't enough to keep your best players, but so are people that think they'd rather have the FA Cup than play in the champions league. 

 

Although it's all abit pointless anyway because we won the league and atleast 3 of our best players wanted out 

Exactly. Which is always gonna happen. Clubs are bigger than us and that's how it goes, just like players at those clubs want out as soon as Barcelona/Real Madrid come knocking.

[oxford blue]

There would be more money for club in finishing top 4, but it is 58 years since took the record for the club playing most cup finals without winning. Losing for a forth time 5 years later made this unenviable record even harder to break.

 

There is no glory in finishing 2, 3 or 4 in PL, but there certainly is in winning FA Cup before 20,000 fans in May. Far better for morale of Leicester generally too!

[David Hankey]

Let's be greedy, top 4 and FA Cup winners, finally.