Not The Politics Thread.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

 

What's scarier than people like that having the vote, is that they also get to serve on a jury.

 

Would you want your guilt or innocence decided by such people?

[leicsmac]

25 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

What's scarier than people like that having the vote, is that they also get to serve on a jury.

 

Would you want your guilt or innocence decided by such people?

It's a fair argument, based on the human condition.

 

However, democratic self-determination, whether on a jury or through an election, for all its many flaws (and it has a shitload), is still less flawed in outcome than all other systems that have been tried - simply because mostly those other systems concentrate power across a lesser sphere of individuals, and given the human condition (again) such power almost always corrupts.

 

Perhaps, in the future, and in particular if human lifespan is drastically extended somehow, we'll find a system that is "better" in terms of ensuring equability of opportunity as well as making decisions that guarantee the long-term future of human civilisation.

[Dunge]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

The right have played a blinder with the whole 'woke' thing. It's a term invented by the right wing to trick people into thinking that everyone on the left wants to tear up 'traditional' British values (when it doesn't). And because it's an emotive topic, people fall hook line and sinker for it.  

Can I ask with this: Are you saying that woke culture doesn’t exist and is a figment of people’s imagination, or are you saying that it’s limited to a very vocal few and overegged, and that most people on the left (centre-left) don’t believe in it either? (Or something else entirely.)

[Kopfkino]

20 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

It’s been touched upon here in the last few posts and mentioned it this morning when using the home ownership relationship. 
 

Labour need to analyse those voters that switch to Con. Consistently dismissing it as ‘Brexit’ is poor and doesn’t stick. Look deeper and do the hard yards. 
 

For a bit of ying to yang, Labour have just taken a Canterbury Council seat with a huge swing. Likely to be caused by the situation Kent has found itself due to Brexit and partly the changing demographic who lives in Canterbury. I suspect over the next ten years there will be some traditional Tory areas what start to turn because of a more ‘mobile’ youth 

 Tunbridge Wells moving to NOC and also losing plenty of council seats in Surrey and West Sussex. It’s a longer term electoral problem for them, probably towards the end of this decade as people escape London as they get older, have decent jobs with good salaries but are paying through the nose for somewhere to live

[Gordon the Great]

2 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 Tunbridge Wells moving to NOC and also losing plenty of council seats in Surrey and West Sussex. It’s a longer term electoral problem for them, probably towards the end of this decade as people escape London as they get older, have decent jobs with good salaries but are paying through the nose for somewhere to live

Interesting theory but the older people get, the more Conservative they vote.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Keir Starmer sacking Angela Rayner as campaign chair after he was supposed to be "taking full responsibility". This guy is a rank amatuer, isn't he? God knows how he became DPP he wants all his cases looking back at if he is this bad at everything he does.

[AjcW]

2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Keir Starmer sacking Angela Rayner as campaign chair after he was supposed to be "taking full responsibility". This guy is a rank amatuer, isn't he? God knows how he became DPP he wants all his cases looking back at if he is this bad at everything he does.

He appears to be sacking every woman in sight.... which doesn’t seem like the smartest move.

[Gordon the Great]

9 hours ago, AjcW said:

He appears to be sacking every woman in sight.... which doesn’t seem like the smartest move.

Shame he`s too late for Clare Rayner, sounds like he could do with an Agony Aunt!!

[CosbehFox]

21 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 Tunbridge Wells moving to NOC and also losing plenty of council seats in Surrey and West Sussex. It’s a longer term electoral problem for them, probably towards the end of this decade as people escape London as they get older, have decent jobs with good salaries but are paying through the nose for somewhere to live

Another example in the few hours of Labour taking council seats in Oxfordshire - Chipping Norton 

[Rain King]

19 hours ago, Gordon the Great said:

Interesting theory but the older people get, the more Conservative they vote.

Thankfully not all.

[Kopfkino]

19 hours ago, Gordon the Great said:

Interesting theory but the older people get, the more Conservative they vote.

Usually getting older gives you a stake to conserve. But when you’ve lived in a box in London for too many years, struggled onto the housing market, have a ridiculous mortgage for little house, have to spend a huge chunk of your wages on childcare and see your inheritance (built up by keeping people like you out of the housing market) frittered away into the hands of care home owners, that relationship starts to break down. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Surprised Labour haven't really pushed the successes they've had ie winning in areas where they weren't expected.
Seems like the moderates and extremists are always spoiling for a scrap inside the party.

The Tories have their factions but they appear to come together, or at least put differences to one side, when it comes to elections.

[Sharpe's Fox]

16 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Surprised Labour haven't really pushed the successes they've had ie winning in areas where they weren't expected.
Seems like the moderates and extremists are always spoiling for a scrap inside the party.

The Tories have their factions but they appear to come together, or at least put differences to one side, when it comes to elections.

The Conservative Party changes its leaders with quiet and effective regicide, the Labour Party by loud and messy open warfare.

Edited 9 May 2021 by Sharpe's Fox

[Sharpe's Fox]

21 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Usually getting older gives you a stake to conserve. But when you’ve lived in a box in London for too many years, struggled onto the housing market, have a ridiculous mortgage for little house, have to spend a huge chunk of your wages on childcare and see your inheritance (built up by keeping people like you out of the housing market) frittered away into the hands of care home owners, that relationship starts to break down. 

Yep. The council seats being won by Labour in the south and south east arn't because of teenagers and twenty-somethings, its people in their 30's and early 40's who have been in work for years and still aren't on the housing ladder, paying state taxes and landlords with nothing to show for it. Of course this pales into insignficance with the demographic voting trends with pensioners in the north but it is a trend.

[Leicester_Loyal]

[Tuna]

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

16 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

The Left (not all obviously) just don't seem to get it. Blaming the electorate.

People who differently, think differently, get absolute pelters.

Even those soft left and floating centrists were told effective to F-Off and join the Tories when Corbyn was in power.

You have to get people onside, maybe not 'your kind of people' but enough people to get into power.

Don't abuse the electorate. How many times does it need to happen for the penny to drop?

[doverfox]

 

5 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

The Left (not all obviously) just don't seem to get it. Blaming the electorate.

People who differently, think differently, get absolute pelters.

Even those soft left and floating centrists were told effective to F-Off and join the Tories when Corbyn was in power.

You have to get people onside, maybe not 'your kind of people' but enough people to get into power.

Don't abuse the electorate. How many times does it need to happen for the penny to drop?

Whats worse is they dont want to listen to the great having turned their back on the working class who they thought would never not vote for them in favour of the woking class. Being proud of being English / British doesnt  make you racist, i get the impression that Labour hate the nation and everythig it stands for today. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

19 minutes ago, doverfox said:

 

Whats worse is they dont want to listen to the great having turned their back on the working class who they thought would never not vote for them in favour of the woking class. Being proud of being English / British doesnt  make you racist, i get the impression that Labour hate the nation and everythig it stands for today. 

i know mate. You can't even say you're English these days without being arrested and thrown in jail.

Edited 9 May 2021 by Sharpe's Fox

[Fightforever]

1 hour ago, doverfox said:

 

Whats worse is they dont want to listen to the great having turned their back on the working class who they thought would never not vote for them in favour of the woking class. Being proud of being English / British doesnt  make you racist, i get the impression that Labour hate the nation and everythig it stands for today. 

People always say this but I haven't actually seen an instance of people saying it makes you racist apart from the odd purple haired nutcase on twitter. The right wing media has pulled a blinder making you believe this is actually true.

[bovril]

Just now, Fightforever said:

People always say this but I haven't actually seen an instance of people saying it makes you racist apart from the odd purple haired nutcase on twitter. The right wing media has pulled a blinder making you believe this is actually true.

I think the problem is the purple haired nutcases are very visible precisely because of twitter. 

[doverfox]

https://trib.al/N3juOYY bet he wishes he had died before he got old.

[bovril]

Just now, doverfox said:

https://trib.al/N3juOYY bet he wishes he had died before he got old.

I watched that 'My Generation' documentary a year ago and it just riled me that so many of them claimed they were changing Britain and leading some kind of revolution even though half of them ****ed off as soon as they could because they didn't want to pay tax (Caine) or started voting Tory because of all the immigrants (Daltrey).

[Lionator]

On 08/05/2021 at 14:33, Dunge said:

Can I ask with this: Are you saying that woke culture doesn’t exist and is a figment of people’s imagination, or are you saying that it’s limited to a very vocal few and overegged, and that most people on the left (centre-left) don’t believe in it either? (Or something else entirely.)

The second bit. It depends what we mean by wokism too, should comedians still be allowed to make racist jokes on BBC primetime, no? I'm anti any sort of discrimination. Or is it more that shamed to be British thing, because I could see why that would rub people up the wrong way.

 

And yes Owen Jones is an a*se 

[Heathrow fox]

There are now seven Labour MPs who have done a real working job.That’s a big part of the problem.Only twenty seven of the current lot had parents who did a working job.So it’s easy to see where this is going.