Not The Politics Thread.

[doverfox]

Have the political parties given up campaigning? Here in deepest kent  we have had 1 leftlet (and that was fir the greens) and no knocks on the door, but its not just because of covid it was the same for the last general election. 

[bovril]

21 minutes ago, doverfox said:

Have the political parties given up campaigning? Here in deepest kent  we have had 1 leftlet (and that was fir the greens) and no knocks on the door, but its not just because of covid it was the same for the last general election. 

Nobody wants to get the Kent variant. 

[Nalis]

First time ever I was tempted to spoil my ballot, resisted though.

Edited 6 May 2021 by Nalis

[Vacamion]

1 hour ago, doverfox said:

Have the political parties given up campaigning? Here in deepest kent  we have had 1 leftlet (and that was fir the greens) and no knocks on the door, but its not just because of covid it was the same for the last general election. 

 

I heard this from a colleague who lives in Whetstone and was amazed.

 

I have been frickin deluged with leaflets (Glasgow here  )

 

I know that mail-drops and leafleting must work on some level,  or they wouldn't do it, but I really struggle to understand someone who receives a leaflet and goes "You know what? This leaflet totally changes my political outlook, so now I'm voting for that other lot, instead."

 

For me, that's the same level of futility as people knocking on my door to sell me their politics or their deity, or anything, actually.

 

 

[AjcW]

Voted for someone called Paddy Tipping today.... which sounds like the sort of activity your racist grandad would have got involved in. Lovely stuff. 

[Samilktray]

Nitesh Dave who’s representing the Lib Dems in thurmaston simply wrote in his about me section that his favourite biscuit is a Custard Cream. I have honestly never felt like a politician was genuinely a voice for me until this 

[CosbehFox]

Well as a leftie I think the consolation at an utterly awful evening by Labour is people aligning themselves under other left parties such as the Greens in some council areas 

[Nalis]

There needs to be a new opposition party to the Tories otherwise they're just going to win election after election.

 

Something a bit more in the centre but not smug or so far up its own back patting middle class arse like the Lib Dems or Change that it alienates the working class.

Edited 7 May 2021 by Nalis

[Voll Blau]

It's hard to feel anything other than dismay seeing that Hartlepool result.

 

As Weller said: "You've made your bed, you'd better lie in it..."

[Sharpe's Fox]

when Keir Starmers entire pitch was 'electability' its not a good sign that he loses a former safe seat by a ratio of 2-1 that your supposedly 'un-electable' predessor won with a majority of votes cast only 4 years ago.

[David Guiza]

Completely expected result, but still depressing nonetheless. 

 

I completely understand the reasoning behind not voting Labour, the party is in disarray, but why you'd then jump ship to the Tories is beyond me. One must say that the marketing the Tories have done is exceptional, they have somehow convinced the working classes that they are the party for them, despite not actually offering any concrete evidence as to why that is the case. As VB references above, the pressure is now on the party to pay back the faith that they've invested in to them. 

 

It's still very early days into Starmer's leadership, but it really doesn't look pretty. I feel like history is repeating itself and he's effectively going to have to do a the caretaker role that Kinnock did before handing the reigns over to somebody who can hopefully lead them back into power. Though, I fear that Labour will in some way split and there will effectively be one major party in UK politics and a collection of varying degrees of centre & centre left parties splitting the vote even further. 

[Finnaldo]

20 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

when Keir Starmers entire pitch was 'electability' its not a good sign that he loses a former safe seat by a ratio of 2-1 that your supposedly 'un-electable' predessor won with a majority of votes cast only 4 years ago.

To be fair Labour would have lost the seat in 2019 very handily had it not been for Richard Tice. Just seems like a correction at this point. 
 

Pandemic and virtually most campaigning halted for the majority of the campaign I expected nothing but a repeat result and that’s what we got. 

[String fellow]

Just now, David Guiza said:

Completely expected result, but still depressing nonetheless. 

 

I completely understand the reasoning behind not voting Labour, the party is in disarray, but why you'd then jump ship to the Tories is beyond me. One must say that the marketing the Tories have done is exceptional, they have somehow convinced the working classes that they are the party for them, despite not actually offering any concrete evidence as to why that is the case. As VB references above, the pressure is now on the party to pay back the faith that they've invested in to them. 

 

It's still very early days into Starmer's leadership, but it really doesn't look pretty. I feel like history is repeating itself and he's effectively going to have to do a the caretaker role that Kinnock did before handing the reigns over to somebody who can hopefully lead them back into power. Though, I fear that Labour will in some way split and there will effectively be one major party in UK politics and a collection of varying degrees of centre & centre left parties splitting the vote even further. 

Not depressing at all. The people of Hartlepool clearly recognised that the Conservative party has delivered on Brexit and on the vaccine roll-out. The only depressing aspect was Paul Williams's lack of grace by not giving a speech afterwards.

Btw, isn't it about time phrases like 'the working classes' were consigned to history? It implies that only a certain section of society does any work, which is completely untrue, and is frankly a bit insulting to everyone else who has worked hard all their life.

[Buce]

46 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

As Weller said: "You've made your bed, you'd better lie in it..."

 

He also said, "Fvck this, gaffer, it's far too cold for shorts - I'm wearing the wife's tights..."

[LVFox]

Labour have a complete identity crisis at the moment. Do they want to appeal mainly to a northern working class or a more metropolitan electorate? Too early for Keir to be massively held to account for this, he should be in a better position by general election, but needs to establish exactly what the party stand for.

[David Guiza]

35 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Not depressing at all. The people of Hartlepool clearly recognised that the Conservative party has delivered on Brexit and on the vaccine roll-out. The only depressing aspect was Paul Williams's lack of grace by not giving a speech afterwards.

Btw, isn't it about time phrases like 'the working classes' were consigned to history? It implies that only a certain section of society does any work, which is completely untrue, and is frankly a bit insulting to everyone else who has worked hard all their life.

I'm not entirely sure that one can tell somebody that their emotion is incorrect. If I'm downbeat about the outcome of an election result then that's somewhat my prerogative, Stringy. 

 

I suggest you revisit the definition of working class before you climb up those steps onto your high horse too. It is a term that reflects the type of work and background that a person has and nothing to do with them being in work whilst the rest of society puts their feet up. I don't know if you've been to Hartlepool, or know a great deal about the area, but it is a 'working class' town with one of the highest poverty rates in the UK and an income deprivation of more than one and half times that of the UK average. The people of Hartlepool have spoken with their vote and clearly believe that a Tory candidate and Government are their best way forward so that's that. 

 

I'm all for tackling class divide and ending the never ending circular socio-economic struggles that those at the bottom of the ladder live in, but I don't think terminology is the driving force behind that. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

26 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

He also said, "Fvck this, gaffer, it's far too cold for shorts - I'm wearing the wife's tights..."

 

His band member also paid for his kid to get into Eaton, ironically I imagine some of the cost of which was off the back of profits made from the Eaton Rifles song. 

 

 

Edited 7 May 2021 by David Guiza

[Nalis]

1 minute ago, David Guiza said:

I'm not entirely sure that one can tell somebody that their emotion is incorrect. If I'm downbeat about the outcome of an election result then that's somewhat my prerogative, Stringy. 

 

I suspect you revisit the definition of working class before you climb up those steps onto your high horse too. It is a term that reflects the type of work and background that a person has and nothing to do with them being in work whilst the rest of society puts their feet up. I don't know if you've been to Hartlepool, or know a great deal about the area, but it is a 'working class' town with one of the highest poverty rates in the UK and an income deprivation of more than one and half times that of the UK average. The people of Hartlepool have spoken with their vote and clearly believe that a Tory candidate and Government are their best way forward so that's that. 

 

I'm all for tackling class divide and ending the never ending circular socio-economic struggles that those at the bottom of the ladder live in, but I don't think terminology is the driving force behind that. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

Excellent post, pretty much what I was going to respond with though yours is a lot more articulate than the way I would have put it.

[Voll Blau]

31 minutes ago, LVocey said:

Labour have a complete identity crisis at the moment. Do they want to appeal mainly to a northern working class or a more metropolitan electorate? Too early for Keir to be massively held to account for this, he should be in a better position by general election, but needs to establish exactly what the party stand for.

They have to appeal to both to win an election. The problem is voters to the left of centre are far less likely to rally round a large, uniting force than those on the right because they'd rather be divided by the little differences than united by the big commonalities they share. An example of this is 2019 in the seat where I live, where if the Lib Dems and Greens hadn't stood and instead endorsed Labour, the Tories wouldn't have won the seat.

 

Until people learn to hold their nose a bit more, we're going to be living under Tory rule because that's the way our electoral system is rigged.

Edited 7 May 2021 by Voll Blau

[CosbehFox]

Someone at an opposition party needs to really do the hard work in understanding what informs the electorate. 
 

It was pointed out a couple of days ago that one of the driving factors in the Red Wall falling apart is probably the increase of home ownership in those areas.
 

Basically Labour dominate cities where home ownership is unrealistic or expensive. 
 

As some of the former Red Wall towns and cities get economically left behind, homes are easier to buy due to lowering population levels and not retaining the same market value increase. For example towns on outskirts of Manchester going Blue whilst Manchester is fiercely Red. 

 

There’s never been a coherent housing plan for the future by any political party in recent years - in there probably lies the answer to become the first voting choice for numerous ages, demographics and the salary levels. 
 

It’s that hard analysis that Labour or any opposition needs to do. There’s no denying the Tories are superb at that kind of thing as shown by their media campaigns - as much as dislike the whole tactics (subjectively admittedly) it works . 

Edited 7 May 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

They have to appeal to both to win an election. The problem is voters to the left of centre are far less likely to rally round a large, uniting force than those on the right because they'd rather be divided by the little differences than united by the big commonalities the share. An example of this is 2019 in the seat where I live, where if the Lib Dems and Greens hadn't stood and instead endorsed Labour, the Tories wouldn't have won the seat.

 

Until people learn to hold their nose a bit more, we're going to be living under Tory rule because that's the way our electoral system is rigged.

Generally that’s a huge societal problem when it comes to opposition in the UK. 
 

Person A says Police are bad because of how they handle a protest.
 

Person B says well you wanted to see how much worse they handle a protest about women’s rights. 
 

Person A and B argue - but their point is the same Police are bad.

 

In opposition you have to unite on agreed principles and then push the sub-feeling later on. 

[Nalis]

3 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

They have to appeal to both to win an election. The problem is voters to the left of centre are far less likely to rally round a large, uniting force than those on the right because they'd rather be divided by the little differences than united by the big commonalities the share. An example of this is 2019 in the seat where I live, where if the Lib Dems and Greens hadn't stood and instead endorsed Labour, the Tories wouldn't have won the seat.

 

Until people learn to hold their nose a bit more, we're going to be living under Tory rule because that's the way our electoral system is rigged.

Good point, I cant believe in 2021 that we still dont have a transferable voting systems for general elections / by elections.

 

The flip side is that, as you've alluded to above, the next best step is trying to beat the system that the Tories play so brilliantly.

[Kopfkino]

Clearly very wrong in thinking it could be close at the time it was announced and its been clear over the last couple of weeks it wouldn't be but that is pretty grim stuff for Labour. But it probably is a bit of a fluke of the perfect storm.

 

However, council elections in England aren't looking good either. Nuneaton (a classic swing seat) is now 24-7 Cons to Labour, with Labour losing 11. Harlow, another key election battleground, Labour lost 6 of the 7 seats being contested that they held. We'll see how it pans out elsewhere but they're probably worse signs than Hartlepool.

 

The most effective opposition politician in the last year is pissing about as mayor of GM, the most effective government opposition in the last year plays upfront for Man Utd, and in the short term Labour is relying on Cummings to be as bad for the government outside of it as he was inside of it. Not the best spot to be in.

 

And we're already building a list of the standard excuses in here

Electoral system tick

Conservatives conning the voters tick

 

 

[Voll Blau]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

And we're already building a list of the standard excuses in here

Electoral system tick

Conservatives conning the voters tick

 

 

It's not an excuse. I'm just saying it's a reality check for people left of centre that if they don't want to live under Tory rule forever they need to be a bit smarter about how they vote. That's on them.

[Dunge]

4 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Clearly very wrong in thinking it could be close at the time it was announced and its been clear over the last couple of weeks it wouldn't be but that is pretty grim stuff for Labour. But it probably is a bit of a fluke of the perfect storm.

 

However, council elections in England aren't looking good either. Nuneaton (a classic swing seat) is now 24-7 Cons to Labour, with Labour losing 11. Harlow, another key election battleground, Labour lost 6 of the 7 seats being contested that they held. We'll see how it pans out elsewhere but they're probably worse signs than Hartlepool.

 

The most effective opposition politician in the last year is pissing about as mayor of GM, the most effective government opposition in the last year plays upfront for Man Utd, and in the short term Labour is relying on Cummings to be as bad for the government outside of it as he was inside of it. Not the best spot to be in.

 

And we're already building a list of the standard excuses in here

Electoral system tick

Conservatives conning the voters tick

 

 

Just to say - I love this paragraph. 

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

when Keir Starmers entire pitch was 'electability' its not a good sign that he loses a former safe seat by a ratio of 2-1 that your supposedly 'un-electable' predessor won with a majority of votes cast only 4 years ago.

Supposedly un-electable?  Did I miss Corbyn winning an election for Labour?