Vestergaard signs

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, mod hero said:

Your as guilty as anyone for this. Quite unbelievable.

No I’m not

More recently I’ve given lots of praise to Big Dan when he’s played well and often stated he seems a good bloke. Just see my posts at the weekend. 
But when I don’t think he’s played well, I say so.

What I don’t do is to ignore how one player is performing whilst focussing completely on slating another. Last night is a prime example. Vestergaard came on late in the game and when he was on the pitch we conceded one goal. It’s always difficult when a player joins a game with so little time left. And he got slated.

However, we conceded two goals in the first half when, defensively, we were all over the place. And both Amartey and Evans get zero criticism.?

That’s scapegoating 

And only last night I said Evans looked just as bad in the first half….

Edited 21 October 2021 by Col city fan

[Guest Col city fan]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

It's also disingenuous to pile on him for one goal when 2 others in the game were conceded without him on the pitch. Yet all people focus on is Vestergaard? It'd be fine to criticise all, but the focus only seems to be the 3rd goal just because its Vestegaard. The clean sheet was already gone by the time he came on and somehow its his fault? 

 

I'm by no means saying he's been playing well and I agree he could be much better, but the pile on after yesterday is OTT. But that's how this site works.

Yes it is. It’s exactly how this site works 

👍

[Nod.E]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

It's also disingenuous to pile on him for one goal when 2 others in the game were conceded without him on the pitch. Yet all people focus on is Vestergaard? It'd be fine to criticise all, but the focus only seems to be the 3rd goal just because its Vestegaard. The clean sheet was already gone by the time he came on and somehow its his fault? 

 

I'm by no means saying he's been playing well and I agree he could be much better, but the pile on after yesterday is OTT. But that's how this site works.

I think it's the fact he was only on for 10 minutes and yet still managed to make a mistake that led to a goal. What would have happened had he played the full match?

[TheFiveTime]

44 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

No I’m not

More recently I’ve given lots of praise to Big Dan when he’s played well and often stated he seems a good bloke. Just see my posts at the weekend. 
But when I don’t think he’s played well, I say so.

What I don’t do is to ignore how one player is performing whilst focussing completely on slating another. Last night is a prime example. Vestergaard came on late in the game and when he was on the pitch we conceded one goal. It’s always difficult when a player joins a game with so little time left. And he got slated.

However, we conceded two goals in the first half when, defensively, we were all over the place. And both Amartey and Evans get zero criticism.?

That’s scapegoating 

And only last night I said Evans looked just as bad in the first half….

You are definitely exaggerating how bad we were defensively first half. We looked a little open for sure but to say we were all over the place is completely wrong. Their first goal was incredibly lucky and their second goal was a mistake by cags and some slightly poor defending. However, Apart from their goals can we really think of a top save Kasper had to make or a clear opportunity they had? no. For most of the first half we played attacking open football that left us open at the back purely by way we were playing. Second half they barely got a sniff at goal from my memory and we defended much much better (partly due to soumare being a beast) but we also looked more organised.

 

We looked to run away with it easily but then Veste got turned betrand marked poorly and they score. Were the goals exclusively their faults. no ofc not. But its telling that we looked a lot more vulnerable when they came on and we went from ez win to needing the loo desperately.

[shen]

37 minutes ago, TheFiveTime said:

You are definitely exaggerating how bad we were defensively first half. We looked a little open for sure but to say we were all over the place is completely wrong. Their first goal was incredibly lucky and their second goal was a mistake by cags and some slightly poor defending. However, Apart from their goals can we really think of a top save Kasper had to make or a clear opportunity they had? no. For most of the first half we played attacking open football that left us open at the back purely by way we were playing. Second half they barely got a sniff at goal from my memory and we defended much much better (partly due to soumare being a beast) but we also looked more organised.

 

We looked to run away with it easily but then Veste got turned betrand marked poorly and they score. Were the goals exclusively their faults. no ofc not. But its telling that we looked a lot more vulnerable when they came on and we went from ez win to needing the loo desperately.

We were rubbish defensively first half. Despite very limited ability and threat from Spartak, we managed to gift them two goals. Sobolev should never have been allowed a shot at goal and the second goal needs no further analysis. Beyond that, Tielemans had to pull the handbrake earning him a yellow and a freekick just outside the box, while Ayrton definitely had the better of Ricardo.

Moses also definitely had the upper hand on Thomas.

 

Second half was helped by Soumare sitting deeper, with Maddison, who offered very little protection to Thomas first galf, more central. But both Amartey and Soyuncu hacked the ball away at least twice, when the situation could have been handled with a bit of composure. Clear sign of nervousness even before Vestergaard and Bertrand came on.

 

Again, I don't wish to defend Vestergaard and Bertrand needlessly, but I just want to put things into perspective and at least try to look at the team objectively.

 

3 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

Anyone remember Jonny Evans looking ropey when he first came here? Wasn't until second half of his first season that he started to look like the Evans we've grown to know - hopefully same applies to Vestergaard. 

 

Defence is the place on the pitch you need the most cohesion, it's only natural to have some teething issues. 

Justin, Evans, Soyuncu and Ricardo all started a bit shakey. Castagne and Fofana came out flying, but even they couldn't keep their form up over more than a handful of games before showing inconsistencies. You are absolutely right about defense being the most demanding in regards to cohesion.

I suppose there is an expectation that two experienced pros would bed in quicker, but getting to grips with Rodgers' instructions has proven tricky for many.

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, TheFiveTime said:

You are definitely exaggerating how bad we were defensively first half. We looked a little open for sure but to say we were all over the place is completely wrong. Their first goal was incredibly lucky and their second goal was a mistake by cags and some slightly poor defending. However, Apart from their goals can we really think of a top save Kasper had to make or a clear opportunity they had? no. For most of the first half we played attacking open football that left us open at the back purely by way we were playing. Second half they barely got a sniff at goal from my memory and we defended much much better (partly due to soumare being a beast) but we also looked more organised.

 

We looked to run away with it easily but then Veste got turned betrand marked poorly and they score. Were the goals exclusively their faults. no ofc not. But its telling that we looked a lot more vulnerable when they came on and we went from ez win to needing the loo desperately.

Heavens above! This is the type of thing I’m talking about. What game were you watching if you didn’t think we were defensively all over the place in the first half?!

[filbertway]

Whoever pushed for this transfer needs binning off, can't believe we've spent 15 million on this fella. Big Dan genuinely looks a world class CB now Vestergaard is here.

[Guest Col city fan]

34 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

You trying to say that Big Dan isn't a world class centre half?

[An Sionnach]

We have conceded 64 goals in the last 46 league matches ,the defensive problems are not new. Is it the players or is it the tactics?

[FoxyLeon]

18 hours ago, Steve Earle said:

Just stop? He’s our player & our recruitment team, who’ve been after him for a while, rarely get it wrong.

Unconvincing so far for sure, but let him settle into our way of playing before writing him off.

 

Can you find me a link which suggests we were after him before Rodgers arrived?

 

I can only recall links after Rodgers joined, and he's the complete opposite profile of player 'Our recruitment team' goes for.

 

[Devonfox1884]

Not a fan at all so far, but he needs a bit of time before anyone forms a conclusive opinion I feel.

 

I had hoped we’d sign Tarkowski instead though, felt we’d always end up with one of the two with the constant links. 

[fuchsntf]

Time for...a super Kovic....

 

Benkovic..

[StriderHiryu]

58 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Whoever pushed for this transfer needs binning off, can't believe we've spent 15 million on this fella. Big Dan genuinely looks a world class CB now Vestergaard is here.

15m is a lot, but 15m doesn't get you much these days:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12312527/transfer-news-summer-transfer-window-2021-premier-league-ins-and-outs

 

Look at the prices paid for defenders in this list. The good ones cost considerably more than what we paid. The stand out ones that were cheaper were Ajer (Brentford) and Andersen (Palace). Both of whom had already been signed by the time Fofana got injured. Zouma would have been brilliant but cost twice the price, and remember that we signed Lookman after Vestergaard, and the loan fee probably also cost something, so funds were tight as we didn't sell any players this summer. Maybe Tomiyasu at 20m was achievable, but doubt we could match Arsenal's wages.

 

Point is, there weren't that many players to pick from in the market for a reasonable price, with deals that could be done quickly. Cahill might have been an option but went to the Championship instead, which probably says that no Premier League team was willing to take a chance on him.

 

Perhaps the real argument is if we should have risked not signing anyone at all, rather than an underwhelming signing. But given he had a great Euros, and is vastly experienced in the Premier League, we made the decision that it was better to sign someone rather than no-one. And that probably was the correct decision, even if he's disappointed thus far.

 

Our hand was forced because Fofana got injured and we had to act quickly.

 

 

Edited 21 October 2021 by StriderHiryu

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

6 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

15m is a lot, but 15m doesn't get you much these days:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12312527/transfer-news-summer-transfer-window-2021-premier-league-ins-and-outs

 

Look at the prices paid for defenders in this list. The good ones cost considerably more than what we paid. The stand out ones that were cheaper were Ajer (Brentford) and Andersen (Palace). Both of whom had already been signed by the time Fofana got injured. Zouma would have been brilliant but cost twice the price, and remember that we signed Lookman after Vestergaard, and the loan fee probably also cost something, so funds were tight as we didn't sell any players this summer. Maybe Tomiyasu at 20m was achievable, but doubt we could match Arsenal's wages.

 

Point is, there weren't that many players to pick from in the market for a reasonable price, with deals that could be done quickly. Cahill might have been an option but went to the Championship instead, which probably says that no Premier League team was willing to take a chance on him.

 

Perhaps the real argument is if we should have risked not signing anyone at all, rather than an underwhelming signing. But given he had a great Euros, and is vastly experienced in the Premier League, we made the decision that it was better to sign someone rather than no-one. And that probably was the correct decision, even if he's disappointed thus far.

 

Our hand was forced because Fofana got injured and we had to act quickly.

 

 

If vestergaard did what Anderson did against us for us you'd never hear the end of it....

[fuchsntf]

3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

15m is a lot, but 15m doesn't get you much these days:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12312527/transfer-news-summer-transfer-window-2021-premier-league-ins-and-outs

 

Look at the prices paid for defenders in this list. The good ones cost considerably more than what we paid. The stand out ones that were cheaper were Ajer (Brentford) and Andersen (Palace). Both of whom had already been signed by the time Fofana got injured. Zouma would have been brilliant but cost twice the price, and remember that we signed Lookman after Vestergaard, and the loan fee probably also cost something, so funds were tight as we didn't sell any players this summer. Maybe Tomiyasu at 20m was achievable, but doubt we could match Arsenal's wages.

 

Point is, there weren't that many players to pick from in the market for a reasonable price, with deals that could be done quickly. Cahill might have been an option but went to the Championship instead, which probably says that no Premier League team was willing to take a chance on him.

 

Perhaps the real argument is if we should have risked not signing anyone at all, rather than an underwhelming signing. But given he had a great Euros, and is vastly experienced in the Premier League, we made the decision that it was better to sign someone rather than no-one. And that probably was the correct decision, even if he's disappointed thus far.

 

Our hand was forced because Fofana got injured and we had to act quickly.

 

 

The twist in this & some push it aside,forgetting the History of it...

 

Fofana was not brought in for immediats impact, Not out of Choice he was needed & thrown into the Deep end...

A career Not for the First Time suprisingly flourished out of Need..

[Jobyfox]

I don’t think that you can look at the Vestergaard and Bertrand signings and say that the judgement to sign them was poor.

 

We needed back up at CB and, late in the window, we wouldn’t have had many options for the money we had left.

 

Bertrand seemed a no brainer on a free. Bags of experience and can support Thomas at LB. We have other options, but they all seem to prefer the RB berth. 
 

We can all look, retrospectively, and say that these were poor signings. On the basis of what I’ve seen, thus far, I wouldn’t care much if Vesty never played for us again, but best case for everyone would see him improve. 
 

Personally, I’ve been more perturbed by constant criticism of players we know can perform (Madders, Barnes, Soyuncu etc.) and have just been in poor form. Hopefully, Vestergaard is just in poor form, but my worry is that his pace, positioning and physical strength don’t look anywhere near the level. These are the basic building blocks of a top quality CB. 

[StriderHiryu]

11 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

If vestergaard did what Anderson did against us for us you'd never hear the end of it....

Agreed, but to me he's still a good player and with a high ceiling. He can improve and probably can be sold again to make money back, or even a profit. Anyway he had already been signed by them after Fofana got injured so was a non-starter.

 

9 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

The twist in this & some push it aside,forgetting the History of it...

 

Fofana was not brought in for immediats impact, Not out of Choice he was needed & thrown into the Deep end...

A career Not for the First Time suprisingly flourished out of Need..

Absolutely, he was brought in similar to Soyuncu was when Maguire was skirting with his Man U move. He was supposed to be eased in over the course of 12 months, but we were fortunate than when called upon he was brilliant. But I can understand the club's thinking that we needed more experience given for two seasons in a row young players choked their opportunity to get to the Champions League.

 

Note I am not trying to defend the player, thus far he's not been up to scratch. But I am defending the signing. With just ten days to go in the window, they got it done promptly when their hand was forced. I don't think they could have done much better given those circumstances.

 

 

Edited 21 October 2021 by StriderHiryu

[TheStig]

3 hours ago, shen said:

We were rubbish defensively first half. Despite very limited ability and threat from Spartak, we managed to gift them two goals. Sobolev should never have been allowed a shot at goal and the second goal needs no further analysis. Beyond that, Tielemans had to pull the handbrake earning him a yellow and a freekick just outside the box, while Ayrton definitely had the better of Ricardo.

Moses also definitely had the upper hand on Thomas.

 

Second half was helped by Soumare sitting deeper, with Maddison, who offered very little protection to Thomas first galf, more central. But both Amartey and Soyuncu hacked the ball away at least twice, when the situation could have been handled with a bit of composure. Clear sign of nervousness even before Vestergaard and Bertrand came on.

 

Again, I don't wish to defend Vestergaard and Bertrand needlessly, but I just want to put things into perspective and at least try to look at the team objectively.

 

Justin, Evans, Soyuncu and Ricardo all started a bit shakey. Castagne and Fofana came out flying, but even they couldn't keep their form up over more than a handful of games before showing inconsistencies. You are absolutely right about defense being the most demanding in regards to cohesion.

I suppose there is an expectation that two experienced pros would bed in quicker, but getting to grips with Rodgers' instructions has proven tricky for many.

Actually Vestergaard has looked out of sorts also in the Denmark side so its not just only with City he has shown poor form. So I don´t think time is the issue to solve the problem

Edited 21 October 2021 by TheStig

[fuchsntf]

41 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Agreed, but to me he's still a good player and with a high ceiling. He can improve and probably can be sold again to make money back, or even a profit.

 

Absolutely, he was brought in similar to Soyuncu was when Maguire was skirting with his Man U move. He was supposed to be eased in over the course of 12 months, but we were fortunate than when called upon he was brilliant. But I can understand the club's thinking that we needed more experience given for two seasons in a row young players choked their opportunity to get to the Champions League.

 

Note I am not trying to defend the player, thus far he's not been up to scratch. But I am defending the signing. With just ten days to go in the window, they got it done promptly when their hand was forced. I don't think they could have done much better given those circumstances.

Disagree ( on your posts Maybe for the First time ever)..

With choked...!!

 

We Challenged & competed,going toe to toe, with Top 4-6 sides, with an immense Ressource pantry, that we can only Dream of..

Positions during the Bulk of a season mean nothing,other than a gratious pride The strength & Quality in depth, only Really Shows at the Business..E.of.S.

The season Run in..!

We didnt choke, We Proudly competed...

Clickbait  from outside media, so True blue fans, forget their achievements, where others ( Top 8 ) would be getting Off on..

Don t undersell   "OUR". CLUBS  recent achievements & Finishing positions...

Or you/we Fall in the Trap of others..!! trying to fob them off

 

 

 

Edited 21 October 2021 by fuchsntf

[filbertway]

20 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

15m is a lot, but 15m doesn't get you much these days:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12312527/transfer-news-summer-transfer-window-2021-premier-league-ins-and-outs

 

Look at the prices paid for defenders in this list. The good ones cost considerably more than what we paid. The stand out ones that were cheaper were Ajer (Brentford) and Andersen (Palace). Both of whom had already been signed by the time Fofana got injured. Zouma would have been brilliant but cost twice the price, and remember that we signed Lookman after Vestergaard, and the loan fee probably also cost something, so funds were tight as we didn't sell any players this summer. Maybe Tomiyasu at 20m was achievable, but doubt we could match Arsenal's wages.

 

Point is, there weren't that many players to pick from in the market for a reasonable price, with deals that could be done quickly. Cahill might have been an option but went to the Championship instead, which probably says that no Premier League team was willing to take a chance on him.

 

Perhaps the real argument is if we should have risked not signing anyone at all, rather than an underwhelming signing. But given he had a great Euros, and is vastly experienced in the Premier League, we made the decision that it was better to sign someone rather than no-one. And that probably was the correct decision, even if he's disappointed thus far.

 

Our hand was forced because Fofana got injured and we had to act quickly.

Seems silly to me sign a player who's basically acting a stop gap, especially when he turns out to be worse than the player he's been brought in to play ahead of.

 

Understandable if you know little about the player and they're coming from abroad. Unacceptable for me when he's from a league rival. It's really poor. We're stuck with him for 3 years as well now, really weird decision for me.

 

We're starting to fill our squad with average players that have no resale value and aren't contributing very positively to the first team.

 

I know I go on about them a lot but I love this from Brentford.

 

Quote

 

Next cab off the rank is Fin Stevens.

“I saw him in my algorithm, it’s still working!” Dykes laughs. “It’s not as advanced as Brentford’s but it works. We flagged him up playing for Worthing in the Isthmian League. Released by Arsenal, Fin had a season playing men’s football at 16 as a defender. We met him, were blown away by his character. Three months later, he’s playing in the cup for our first team. And we signed him in a transfer window when our right-back was injured. We could have gone into the market, got a loan, but, no, Phil and Rasmus said, ‘He might be only 17 but he’s the next one in’.

“That’s the key. In a nutshell, that’s Brentford. At 16, Fin Stevens was ready to be a professional footballer; we’ve met 21 year-olds who aren’t ready.”

 

 

[Guest Col city fan]

54 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

We have conceded 64 goals in the last 46 league matches ,the defensive problems are not new. Is it the players or is it the tactics?

64 goals in 46 games…. There ya go…

Anyone gonna go a breakdown of who was playing in the defence when the goals were scored?

Edited 21 October 2021 by Col city fan

[mazarron fox]

We wouldn’t be foxestalk unless we had scapegoats don’t let facts ruin the narrative. Vestaguard shite Bertrand shite soumare  shite Daka shite 😂 hang on a minute

[Bluetintedspecs]

So do we have a new victim on here? 

What's the latest on Madders , Bertrand and Rodgers so I know who's being boooooooooooo'd next home game and why? 🧑‍🎓

[Babylon]

We should have got rid of Vestergaard when we conceded 4 against Newcastle and Spurs at the end of last season. 

[Babylon]

And don't give me excuses about other players, as if an almost ever changing back like for a year + would have any impact.