Vestergaard signs

[Foxxed]

Wow. I only read the last two pages but this thread is exactly as expected. I also have the Patson Daka thread open. It's a welcome antidote.

[volpeazzurro]

8 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

When everyone is fit, Vestergaard probably doesn't even make the bench.

Perhaps the same goes for Bertrand.

 

Bertrand was the Fuchs replacement and Fuchs barely featured in recent times.

Vestergaard wouldn't have been recruited had Fofana (and Evans) been injured.

 

We needed cover but not the cost of elite level players, especially when we didn't sell anyone this summer (which is what every wanted, right?)

We paid £15m for two squad players which is nothing much in modern terms.

The level of hyperbole is ridiculous.

In fairness to Bertrand,  before his illness I thought he was doing ok and so did many on here at the start. We don't know what effect covid has had on his fitness, having had it personally, it certainly wiped me out for a while! To perform at elite Premiership levels, I  could easily see why he could be a little under par at the moment and would certainly give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he'll be fine as cover when fully up and running. 

 

Vestergaard is a different matter. I can understand his lack of pace due to size but, he doesn't seem very strong or commanding which I find quite bizarre. 

Edited 22 October 2021 by volpeazzurro

[murphy]

I had very low expectations for this transfer and yet it has somehow still managed to disappoint.

 

People asking for more time to judge have missed the point of this transfer imo.  Fofana suffered an horrific injury on the eve of the season, Evans has his own injury problems and we were down to bare bones.  I think that the recruitment team would have wanted someone that has Premier League experience who can slot in, do a job and hit the ground running and in the longer term provide cover.  That's my take on it anyway.

 

Rightly or wrongly Vestergaard was identified and fallen well short of what we had hoped for.  

 

There is a certain section among the FT brotherhood that seem to regard criticism of any player at any time as objectionable.  As if criticism is disloyal.  It always seems to be the same posters.  For those, there will never be enough time, no player will ever fail.  It seems to me disingenuous, as if to turn your back on what is in front of your face.  Nacho is a good example of the justification of this train of thought.  Look at him now!

 

I admit to being very critical of Kelechi.  After two seasons I'd seen enough.  He has become a player that I never thought he could be but was I wrong to criticise those poor performances?  I say no, it was fair at the time, just so long as you are able to give credit and praise for his resurgence.    

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, murphy said:

I had very low expectations for this transfer and yet it has somehow still managed to disappoint.

This reminds me of the Peter Ustinov story that he had been told by a colleague, where a commanding officer who was way too talented to be in the army, said of a soldier in his report that:

 

"He sets himself extremely low standards, which unfortunately he fails to live up to..."

[Duquesne Whistle]

15 hours ago, onekeithweller said:

He's ok in the bath apparently.

We should see if Brentford are willing to play in it then. Won't it be hard keeping the corner flags in place though?

[Jobyfox]

18 minutes ago, murphy said:

I had very low expectations for this transfer and yet it has somehow still managed to disappoint.

 

People asking for more time to judge have missed the point of this transfer imo.  Fofana suffered an horrific injury on the eve of the season, Evans has his own injury problems and we were down to bare bones.  I think that the recruitment team would have wanted someone that has Premier League experience who can slot in, do a job and hit the ground running and in the longer term provide cover.  That's my take on it anyway.

 

Rightly or wrongly Vestergaard was identified and fallen well short of what we had hoped for.  

 

There is a certain section among the FT brotherhood that seem to regard criticism of any player at any time as objectionable.  As if criticism is disloyal.  It always seems to be the same posters.  For those, there will never be enough time, no player will ever fail.  It seems to me disingenuous, as if to turn your back on what is in front of your face.  Nacho is a good example of the justification of this train of thought.  Look at him now!

 

I admit to being very critical of Kelechi.  After two seasons I'd seen enough.  He has become a player that I never thought he could be but was I wrong to criticise those poor performances?  I say no, it was fair at the time, just so long as you are able to give credit and praise for his resurgence.    

 

 

I think this is true to some extent.

 

Sometimes you just have to call it how you see it and Vestergaard has looked very poor.

 

It’s ok to say that he was a stop gap signing and possibly won’t be anywhere near the first team when everyone is fit. But his performances so far have suggested that we might have been better muddling through with what we already had at the club. He looks like he’ll cost us points, which isn’t a good place to be even for a back up player.  
 

The signing looked solid enough when it was made so I’m not jumping on the recruitment team. There is also still time for him to come good. 
 

But, at the moment, it frightens me when I see his name in the starting line up and (currently) he’s the one player I don’t want to play. I don’t think we should be afraid to call that out.
 

I’d be the first to praise a higher level of performance but, I’ve only seen it once, against Man City. Maybe he’s more suited to games when it’s backs to the wall type defending? 
 

 

Edited 23 October 2021 by Jobyfox

[oadby.fox]

Agree with others who are saying that, as fans, we shouldn’t be afraid to call it how it is. Being critical means you care, it doesn’t mean that you now have a vested interest (no pun intended) in a particular player doing poorly or the team overall. 
 

This might be slightly harsh on Rachid but to me he’s another Ghezzal type signing. He’s one that you could smell a mile off in the sense that he wasn’t going to be a good fit for the club and/or not be good enough at this level full stop. Not every signing can be an absolute banger but we would do well to avoid paying quite hefty sums for players that are not at it whatsoever. He’s a player that never seemed right for the club and we have and perhaps will continue to pay the price in both points and cost. 
 

During a crisis, I would’ve much rather seen us either a.) take a similar gamble on a player of comparable or unknown quality but for far less, b.) utilise other senior options e.g Amartey or other players out of position or c.) blood whoever seems most capable in the U23 side for a few games. 

[shen]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I had very low expectations for this transfer and yet it has somehow still managed to disappoint.

 

People asking for more time to judge have missed the point of this transfer imo.  Fofana suffered an horrific injury on the eve of the season, Evans has his own injury problems and we were down to bare bones.  I think that the recruitment team would have wanted someone that has Premier League experience who can slot in, do a job and hit the ground running and in the longer term provide cover.  That's my take on it anyway.

 

Rightly or wrongly Vestergaard was identified and fallen well short of what we had hoped for.  

 

There is a certain section among the FT brotherhood that seem to regard criticism of any player at any time as objectionable.  As if criticism is disloyal.  It always seems to be the same posters.  For those, there will never be enough time, no player will ever fail.  It seems to me disingenuous, as if to turn your back on what is in front of your face.  Nacho is a good example of the justification of this train of thought.  Look at him now!

 

I admit to being very critical of Kelechi.  After two seasons I'd seen enough.  He has become a player that I never thought he could be but was I wrong to criticise those poor performances?  I say no, it was fair at the time, just so long as you are able to give credit and praise for his resurgence.

I think criticism is all well and good. I don't think any 'objectioners' like myself think Vestergaard or Bertrand have done well - quite the opposite.

 

My main gripe is the bandwagon scapegoating, where every mistake gets scrutinised to the point where good things or other players' mistakes get overlooked.

It leads some to either be abusive or focus their ire on these players. 

 

The Kelechi situation should be proof that fans can be horribly wrong in their judgement of a player. He evidently had the ability, but the way he was booed and treated by fans until he hit form will not have helped the cause at all.

 

As fans, I feel we can criticise, but should also show an empathetic and supportive side and not just act like shortsighted shareholders always wanting higher dividends.

[messerschmitt]

On 22/10/2021 at 14:08, UpTheLeagueFox said:

When everyone is fit, Vestergaard probably doesn't even make the bench.

Perhaps the same goes for Bertrand.

 

Bertrand was the Fuchs replacement and Fuchs barely featured in recent times.

Vestergaard wouldn't have been recruited had Fofana (and Evans) been injured.

 

We needed cover but not the cost of elite level players, especially when we didn't sell anyone this summer (which is what every wanted, right?)

We paid £15m for two squad players which is nothing much in modern terms.

The level of hyperbole is ridiculous.

I think we were looking for another CB before Fofana got injured anyway, especially for the 3CB scenario and considering Evans age and recent injury. When did Norwich loan Kabak? I'm guessing before Fofana got injured?

[messerschmitt]

4 hours ago, Jobyfox said:

I think this is true to some extent.

 

Sometimes you just have to call it how you see it and Vestergaard has looked very poor.

 

It’s ok to say that he was a stop gap signing and possibly won’t be anywhere near the first team when everyone is fit. But his performances so far have suggested that we might have been better muddling through with what we already had at the club. He looks like he’ll cost us points, which isn’t a good place to be even for a back up player.  
 

The signing looked solid enough when it was made so I’m not jumping on the recruitment team. There is also still time for him to come good. 
 

But, at the moment, it frightens me when I see his name in the starting line up and (currently) he’s the one player I don’t want to play. I don’t think we should be afraid to call that out.
 

I’d be the first to praise a higher level of performance but, I’ve only seen it once, against Man City. Maybe he’s more suited to games when it’s backs to the wall type defending? 
 

 

We could have got Kabak on loan.

[Jimmy]

12 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I think we were looking for another CB before Fofana got injured anyway, especially for the 3CB scenario and considering Evans age and recent injury. When did Norwich loan Kabak? I'm guessing before Fofana got injured?

after we signed Vestergaard

[An Sionnach]

19 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

We could have got Kabak on loan.

I think we can say that the kid is having a hard time just now. Lost a few fans on here I would think.

[murphy]

3 hours ago, shen said:

I think criticism is all well and good. I don't think any 'objectioners' like myself think Vestergaard or Bertrand have done well - quite the opposite.

 

My main gripe is the bandwagon scapegoating, where every mistake gets scrutinised to the point where good things or other players' mistakes get overlooked.

It leads some to either be abusive or focus their ire on these players. 

 

The Kelechi situation should be proof that fans can be horribly wrong in their judgement of a player. He evidently had the ability, but the way he was booed and treated by fans until he hit form will not have helped the cause at all.

 

As fans, I feel we can criticise, but should also show an empathetic and supportive side and not just act like shortsighted shareholders always wanting higher dividends.

Ok, but what if  I use the term 'consensus' when you say 'bandwagon' or 'scapegoating'?  In other words, it is just the opinion of the majority based on what we see before us rather than posters wading in and feeding off each other.

 

As for other player's mistakes. we can use Cags as a case in point.  Firstly, I think that he has received his fair share of criticism this season for sub par performances.  The difference is that Cags has proven himself to be a good player in the past.  He has earned credit in the bank.  Because of this we can adjudge it to be a problem with form rather than ability.  

 

I mentioned Nacho in my original post.  I can't agree that criticism of him in the past is 'proof' of poor judgement.  It was entirely fair based on his performances and also for the duration of that poor form.  It is easy to forget how bad he was at times, given his stellar last year.  As long as his critics are prepared to give him the credit he deserves I don't see a problem either in terms of fairness or judgement.  

 

One thing on which I can wholeheartedly agree with you is the shameful booing of players at the ground.  Hate it!  

[An Sionnach]

I refuse to criticise individuals , in a team game mistakes are rarely the fault of one player. Leicester City do not employ bad players even though some players are more talented than others. I notice that there are far fewer criticisms when we win. To single out individuals for a poor team performance and disappointing result is a blinkered approach. Every one of our first team squad has poor games. Our substandard performances this season have been more about lack of cohesion than individual weakness.

[Guest Col city fan]

2 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

I refuse to criticise individuals , in a team game mistakes are rarely the fault of one player. Leicester City do not employ bad players even though some players are more talented than others. I notice that there are far fewer criticisms when we win. To single out individuals for a poor team performance and disappointing result is a blinkered approach. Every one of our first team squad has poor games. Our substandard performances this season have been more about lack of cohesion than individual weakness.

Yes I do agree with this. When we’ve played badly, very few of our players have stood out particularly as being much better or worse than any of the others.

Vestergaard to be fair doesn’t look as good as I thought he’d be. But I’m reserving total judgement at least for a few more games 

[messerschmitt]

17 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

I think we can say that the kid is having a hard time just now. Lost a few fans on here I would think.

I think Fofana would struggle at Norwich, I just think Kabak on loan here would have made more sense.

[FoxFossil]

I blame the long commute.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

Step forward today, well done Vesty, came on and did very well, showed a lot more composure. Hopefully onwards and upwards from here 🦊 

[egg_fried_rice]

We were much, much more composed at the back after he came on today.

[Fox42]

Soyuncu stays on the pitch and the result would’ve probably been different. Reassured cameo from Vesty, credit where it’s due.

[StanSP]

Much better next to Evans, like every defender we have

 

Put in a good foot here and there and almost settled us against their momentum. Soyuncu was a red card waiting to happen. 

[turlo]

He did v well when he came on today. V composed and thought he was stronger in challenges today against a physical Brentford side

[Lesterlad]

I thought it was his best ma5ch for us barn1 mistake. He done well 

[foxes_rule1978]

11 minutes ago, turlo said:

He did v well when he came on today. V composed and thought he was stronger in challenges today against a physical Brentford side

Nearly cost us with a misplaced header but on the whole was solid, certainly looked calmer at the back with him on than cags, who just wasn’t on it 

Edited 24 October 2021 by foxes_rule1978

[ParkerPen]

much better today  !