An Sionnach Posted 9 November 2021 Posted 9 November 2021 4 minutes ago, StevieLynex said: I can see them putting in a £100m bid for Maguire He is the captain of arguably the biggest club in the world and a first choice international. Are you sure that is enough? That is his agent speaking by the way.
leicesterseddon Posted 9 November 2021 Posted 9 November 2021 I'm reluctant to buy in the winter. It's generally a bad time to buy and unless you're in a really desperate position (we aren't - at least yet), then it's usually a better move to wait until the summer. The area we really need to strengthen is in central defence - but is there any point when hopefully Fofana will be back in Feb/March? Also I'm hoping Justin will be in and around the first team again when January comes around. Some clubs like Man Utd can afford to accumulate Vestergaard-type failed signings without too bad an impact on their finances. I'm not sure we are in that position, and if we cock up too many times with panic buys then we will struggle
ARM1968 Posted 9 November 2021 Posted 9 November 2021 A Roy Keane clone - in his prime. Someone who his own team fear and respect as much as the opposition. 4
LFox99 Posted 9 November 2021 Posted 9 November 2021 4 hours ago, whitlock said: Not sure where he’d fit in but Juve are looking to offload Ramsey according to Fabrizo. Fully fit player, he’s class. We're not this desperate
volpeazzurro Posted 9 November 2021 Posted 9 November 2021 Most of our players should be fully functioning by January with the exception of Fofana who will hopefully be about there. If Rodgers can't make a decent fist of it with what he's got I'd be very reluctant to let him spend anymore money on anything else he wants until it's established that he's going to be with us next season for whatever reason. Obviously we would still like someone for the gap left by Marhez, but I'd see that as a summer purchase
Genesis1 Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 We need a Burnley type player. Somebody who is dirty but doesn't go as far as Chowders and puts people on the shelf. Far too many times I've seen our players knocked off the ball or on their arse rolling around. Sort of like a Wasileski type player.
fuchsntf Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Genesis1 said: We need a Burnley type player. Somebody who is dirty but doesn't go as far as Chowders and puts people on the shelf. Far too many times I've seen our players knocked off the ball or on their arse rolling around. Sort of like a Wasileski type player. I don't think Choudhury is anywhere near, his falsely built dirty/hard reputation... Klopp/Bruce statements have been too easily gobbled up, & naivily swallowed, by Leicester/oppo fans clickbait brigade...Same ones/type who kept claiming totally incorrectly Wasileski was a walking red card... In fact at present there isn't one PL English/UK player, international or otherwise who could be stamped with that type of reputation... Henderson from L'pool might be the nearest...but even he is more pretence. How hardest man is Vardy, & maybe quietly Soyu.but He's just a no nonsense type of guy. Edited 10 November 2021 by fuchsntf 1
Popular Post Ric Flair Posted 10 November 2021 Popular Post Posted 10 November 2021 This is probably more a rant about what's likely to need to happen in the summer, but some of it may start to occur in January. I think it's fair to say we are on the verge of a significant transition, it's needs to be proactive rather than reactive as we've seen many a club in our situation with a largely successful core squad who've been together for several years but seem to be on the downturn either in ability or because they want a new challenge. We have to get it right, keeping players in either category and their value declining even further will be difficult to recover from for a club like ours. We've also been in the position where its felt very difficult to bring new players in that are earmarked as immediate starters and essentially demote our successful XI to the bench, we've not really done that under Rodgers and although on paper we have a bigger depth to our squad it's no surprise we might be regressing as opposed to improving the longer he's been here. So where do we start. If we accept that there's going to be several players departing and the majority of those players who are first choice then it feels like we'll still have the issue of replacing those but still not having a better overall starting XI unless the replacements are of a better calibre than those departing which won't be easy. My answer to this is that we also need to move on a few other players and take a bit of a chance that bringing in 5-6 new players to go straight in to the first team will work quite quickly and not require more changes to playing staff and potentially the managerial regime. I think Tielemans, Ricardo and Soyuncu are off. The only one I'm really devastated about given the performance levels of 2 of them in the last year is Tielemans. He will be a massive loss and its a head scratcher to work out how we replace him, let alone be of the mindset that we try and improve in the process. Soyuncu I think is under performing due to a bit of a dip in confidence but him not having signed or possibly even offered a new deal since he joined us in 2018 must be a factor. I think he's likely to be toying with moving on but the longer he under performs the less likely he is of that move being a step up. I'd still like us to keep him but I'm not so sure he will be here next season. Ricardo I think is done here, wouldn't be surprised to see him go in January if any of our main players were to depart mid season, I also don't think he'd be a huge loss any longer which is crazy to say but we've had to cope without him for the best part of a season and a half. Given their contract situation I think we'll be fortunate to get more than £50m for Tielemans, £25m for Soyuncu and £15m for Ricardo. I'd put it more like a combined fee of £75-80m. Is that enough, with possibly another £20-30m transfer budget in the summer to do the surgery to our first team and squad to give Rodgers the platform to transform this side and see him regain his effectiveness? I don't think so, not necessarily purely because of finances but because there will be a couple of players that will still be very important players in our side but whom I believe are hindering us. I can't believe I'm saying this as I've been one of his biggest fans but it's time we moved Maddison on in the summer and Perez if we could tempt someone to pay us a modest fee. With £150-160m and the best part of 400k a week in wages saved I think we could rebuild a young and dynamic squad but our recruitment model would need to be rebooted to what it was in the Puel regime rather than the Rodgers one. I'm being a bit unfair there as both periods has seen some fantastic signings and a few pieces of dross but there's been a shift as we try and cement ourselves as a European chasing club each year from young and unproven players at this level but whom are hugely promising, to youngish players who have already perhaps had that stepping stone and got good experience. I don't think it's made us any better, the sorts of signings I'm talking about are Perez, Praet, Vestergaard, maybe even Castagne. As its unlikely we'll be in Europe next season the squad size won't need to be quite as large. We possibly need 2 new CB's if Soyuncu does go and Vestergaard continues to prove he's not good enough but for now I'd be content with one. Should that be another young defender or someone like Tarkowski, in the long run we need both but we could get Tarkowski on a free in the summer with a huge signing on fee but still way less than we'd pay for someone as good. We need a left footed left back as Justin will move across to right back when Ricardo departs and that lad should be Owen Wijndal from AZ. How he is still there when all their other stars have been picked off I don't know as he's been arguably their best player and the one most recognised by the senior Dutch team, he tends to start most games for Holland. He's class, and although the same age as Luke Thomas he's a beast of a player and we've got to be serious about not just replenishing but improving. Only negative is who his agent is, its Raiola and his contract is up in 2023 so we'll be lining pickets but do it already. Overall cost £20m I reckon. How do we replace Youri Tielemans? It's so difficult, I thought Jean Pyrre at Gremio was the closest player to Tielemans in style that I could find but I doubt he's as good. The player I'm convinced will get back to his best and would be a success in England is Donny Van de Beek, Man Utd have a history of young players flopping and going on to not only regain their promise but improve significantly. He'd not be cheap but we could get him for £35m and add ons I reckon, they won't get that for him from abroad when they sell him in the summer. That would leave around £100m to go out and get a next level ACM to replace Maddison and a left footed right winger, possibly even add 1 other ACM / utility player in there if possible as we've been so light in creativity. ACM - Sofiane Diop at Monaco or Florian Wirtz from Leverkusen. Let's not fcuk about, with serious money at our disposal we should take the opportunity to snap up one of Europe's best young ACM's. Without European football it would seem unlikely but we've built up a great reputation as the club to go to as the platform to the PL and the perfect environment to work towards a mega move. Either would cost north of £40m but we'd have the money. Ludovic Blas or Fabio Carvalho would be the low cost options I'd love us to sign, but in addition to one of the above. Finally, a left footed right winger. Blas does play that role too, but he's more of an ACM and there's room for 2 anyway. Madueke was the dream in the summer, he's going to be leaving PSV for sure and the only thing that's making me consider others as well is he's hit a poor patch as well as get injured. If he doesn't return to form by the end of the season then I'd perhaps be looking elsewhere with £40-50m at our disposal. The one standout player this season in that position is Anthony at Ajax. He's a devastating player, so strong and relentless. He'd be the one for me if Madueke isn't in fine fettle, I can't see Ajax rejecting £50m either. So there you go, international break nonsense. Tarkowski on a free Owen Wijndal £20m Donny Van de Beek £35m Sofiane Diop / Florian Wirtz £45m Ludovic Blas / Fabio Carvalho £10m Madueke £30m / Anthony £45m Max total outlay £155m Tielemans/Soyuncu/Ricardo - £75m Maddison - £40m Perez - £5m Praet - £10m 22/23 funds - £25m Projected total income £155m RIC YER TEAS FCUKIN READY 7
Ric Flair Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 Just now, pmcla26 said: I can't imagine the club let 4 of our starting 11 players go in one window, although I can see Soyuncu and Tielemans going. I think Ricardo stays as no one will buy him and for say £15m, there's no point in selling. I think we need to though. If the club don't take stock and consider why are we getting worse, rather than better the longer Rodgers is here then we're signing Rodgers era off, it'll fizzle out and he'll either jump ship or be booted. We've a mix of players here who seem ready for a new challenge or some who we need to move on as it's gone stale and it's all adding to Rodgers difficulties in maintaining his midas touch. It's always a gamble to make huge changes but not doing so can have equally adverse consequences. Look at Spurs and before that Arsenal who had a core of players who they'd kept together for quite a while but were running their contracts down and then had the nightmare of having to replace top class players without the resource to really do so. Tottenham had a similar problem but also one where they flatly refused to consider selling some players who wanted a new challenge, once the malaise and disillusion sets in you're buggered. That's often a huge factor in why managers fail after a while. Rodgers can probably salvage his tenure here but we need to rebuild, just like any successful manager has to do if they're at a club several years. It's possibly seeming to come a bit quicker here but because we aren't a huge club, players want out quicker and we need to be proactive. 4
An Sionnach Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 To be honest , I can't see many coming or going. If Tielemans leaves ,he will need to be replaced but otherwise we are pretty well covered. We struggle desperately to sell players apart from our obvious best and I don't see that changing. Lookman may be bought if he has a good second half of the season.
Ric Flair Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 1 hour ago, An Sionnach said: To be honest , I can't see many coming or going. If Tielemans leaves ,he will need to be replaced but otherwise we are pretty well covered. We struggle desperately to sell players apart from our obvious best and I don't see that changing. Lookman may be bought if he has a good second half of the season. We will do, we've about 12 players out of contract in the next 18 months. Then several more the year after. I think we're in for a massive rebuild and we should embrace it.
deep blue Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 Great article, Ric. Maybe your changes are a bit more earth-churning than are needed, or that the club will wish to contemplate, but it's a good attempt to tackle head-on the staleless which might be part of the reason for our current dip. We certainly do have a few contracts uneasily close to running down, and you are correct in identifying the 3-year period of a manager's reign after which a shot in the arm is required to stop decline setting in. 2
sacreblueits442 Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 2 minutes ago, deep blue said: Great article, Ric. Maybe your changes are a bit more earth-churning than are needed, or that the club will wish to contemplate, but it's a good attempt to tackle head-on the staleless which might be part of the reason for our current dip. We certainly do have a few contracts uneasily close to running down, and you are correct in identifying the 3-year period of a manager's reign after which a shot in the arm is required to stop decline setting in. .. it just goes to show how missing out on the top 4 has impacted the mentality of the playing group!!! With top 4, more likely we would have seen the acquisition of Berardi or Trincao (perhaps) or even Goosen. We would have had an upward trajectory with the new players becoming the injection in the arm of the "team" that was needed for the players vision of going to the next step. The dynamics throughout the team would have changed, a refreshed squad and the Champions League campaign would have focused the players minds. Fofana's injury so close to the start of the season might just have undermined a squad, unsure of its ability to challenge once again, having failed to attain their goals in consecutive seasons. This malaise I believe, would not exist had we grabbed the fourth spot and our trajectory would have then been upwards. There is clearly doubt in this team and the need of something positive occurring would be greatly welcomed. 2
volpeazzurro Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 2 hours ago, Ric Flair said: This is probably more a rant about what's likely to need to happen in the summer, but some of it may start to occur in January. I think it's fair to say we are on the verge of a significant transition, it's needs to be proactive rather than reactive as we've seen many a club in our situation with a largely successful core squad who've been together for several years but seem to be on the downturn either in ability or because they want a new challenge. We have to get it right, keeping players in either category and their value declining even further will be difficult to recover from for a club like ours. We've also been in the position where its felt very difficult to bring new players in that are earmarked as immediate starters and essentially demote our successful XI to the bench, we've not really done that under Rodgers and although on paper we have a bigger depth to our squad it's no surprise we might be regressing as opposed to improving the longer he's been here. So where do we start. If we accept that there's going to be several players departing and the majority of those players who are first choice then it feels like we'll still have the issue of replacing those but still not having a better overall starting XI unless the replacements are of a better calibre than those departing which won't be easy. My answer to this is that we also need to move on a few other players and take a bit of a chance that bringing in 5-6 new players to go straight in to the first team will work quite quickly and not require more changes to playing staff and potentially the managerial regime. I think Tielemans, Ricardo and Soyuncu are off. The only one I'm really devastated about given the performance levels of 2 of them in the last year is Tielemans. He will be a massive loss and its a head scratcher to work out how we replace him, let alone be of the mindset that we try and improve in the process. Soyuncu I think is under performing due to a bit of a dip in confidence but him not having signed or possibly even offered a new deal since he joined us in 2018 must be a factor. I think he's likely to be toying with moving on but the longer he under performs the less likely he is of that move being a step up. I'd still like us to keep him but I'm not so sure he will be here next season. Ricardo I think is done here, wouldn't be surprised to see him go in January if any of our main players were to depart mid season, I also don't think he'd be a huge loss any longer which is crazy to say but we've had to cope without him for the best part of a season and a half. Given their contract situation I think we'll be fortunate to get more than £50m for Tielemans, £25m for Soyuncu and £15m for Ricardo. I'd put it more like a combined fee of £75-80m. Is that enough, with possibly another £20-30m transfer budget in the summer to do the surgery to our first team and squad to give Rodgers the platform to transform this side and see him regain his effectiveness? I don't think so, not necessarily purely because of finances but because there will be a couple of players that will still be very important players in our side but whom I believe are hindering us. I can't believe I'm saying this as I've been one of his biggest fans but it's time we moved Maddison on in the summer and Perez if we could tempt someone to pay us a modest fee. With £150-160m and the best part of 400k a week in wages saved I think we could rebuild a young and dynamic squad but our recruitment model would need to be rebooted to what it was in the Puel regime rather than the Rodgers one. I'm being a bit unfair there as both periods has seen some fantastic signings and a few pieces of dross but there's been a shift as we try and cement ourselves as a European chasing club each year from young and unproven players at this level but whom are hugely promising, to youngish players who have already perhaps had that stepping stone and got good experience. I don't think it's made us any better, the sorts of signings I'm talking about are Perez, Praet, Vestergaard, maybe even Castagne. As its unlikely we'll be in Europe next season the squad size won't need to be quite as large. We possibly need 2 new CB's if Soyuncu does go and Vestergaard continues to prove he's not good enough but for now I'd be content with one. Should that be another young defender or someone like Tarkowski, in the long run we need both but we could get Tarkowski on a free in the summer with a huge signing on fee but still way less than we'd pay for someone as good. We need a left footed left back as Justin will move across to right back when Ricardo departs and that lad should be Owen Wijndal from AZ. How he is still there when all their other stars have been picked off I don't know as he's been arguably their best player and the one most recognised by the senior Dutch team, he tends to start most games for Holland. He's class, and although the same age as Luke Thomas he's a beast of a player and we've got to be serious about not just replenishing but improving. Only negative is who his agent is, its Raiola and his contract is up in 2023 so we'll be lining pickets but do it already. Overall cost £20m I reckon. How do we replace Youri Tielemans? It's so difficult, I thought Jean Pyrre at Gremio was the closest player to Tielemans in style that I could find but I doubt he's as good. The player I'm convinced will get back to his best and would be a success in England is Donny Van de Beek, Man Utd have a history of young players flopping and going on to not only regain their promise but improve significantly. He'd not be cheap but we could get him for £35m and add ons I reckon, they won't get that for him from abroad when they sell him in the summer. That would leave around £100m to go out and get a next level ACM to replace Maddison and a left footed right winger, possibly even add 1 other ACM / utility player in there if possible as we've been so light in creativity. ACM - Sofiane Diop at Monaco or Florian Wirtz from Leverkusen. Let's not fcuk about, with serious money at our disposal we should take the opportunity to snap up one of Europe's best young ACM's. Without European football it would seem unlikely but we've built up a great reputation as the club to go to as the platform to the PL and the perfect environment to work towards a mega move. Either would cost north of £40m but we'd have the money. Ludovic Blas or Fabio Carvalho would be the low cost options I'd love us to sign, but in addition to one of the above. Finally, a left footed right winger. Blas does play that role too, but he's more of an ACM and there's room for 2 anyway. Madueke was the dream in the summer, he's going to be leaving PSV for sure and the only thing that's making me consider others as well is he's hit a poor patch as well as get injured. If he doesn't return to form by the end of the season then I'd perhaps be looking elsewhere with £40-50m at our disposal. The one standout player this season in that position is Anthony at Ajax. He's a devastating player, so strong and relentless. He'd be the one for me if Madueke isn't in fine fettle, I can't see Ajax rejecting £50m either. So there you go, international break nonsense. Tarkowski on a free Owen Wijndal £20m Donny Van de Beek £35m Sofiane Diop / Florian Wirtz £45m Ludovic Blas / Fabio Carvalho £10m Madueke £30m / Anthony £45m Max total outlay £155m Tielemans/Soyuncu/Ricardo - £75m Maddison - £40m Perez - £5m Praet - £10m 22/23 funds - £25m Projected total income £155m RIC YER TEAS FCUKIN READY There's quite a bit to take in there but I agree, there could be a lot of outage in the summer, some wanted, some not. If those mentioned have to go then so be it (I justhopethat Ndidi isn't added to that list too!). I certainly don't think in our current situation, much activity in January is likely or even wise. The summer may also be a watershed moment manager wise also, it wouldn't surprise me. However, if we work on the basis of Rodgers staying, then I forsee another problem. Are our recruitment team going to buy in the way they appear to have done in the past, very successfully or, are they going to be swayed to target players more to Rodgers liking? I usually think it makes absolute sense to back your manager but in Rodgers case I personally have grave reservations. Firstly, IF Perez and Vestergaard were, as we're led to believe, Rodgers choice of players, then one has to question his abilities to choose quality, similar accusations having been made at Liverpool and Celtic. Secondly, what is Rodgers going to try and actually try and do with those players? If it's to try and hone them into a tippy tappy possession based now obsolete style of football and philosophy then it really worries me. He's starting to look very one dimensional and such a progression could leave us with big problems for years to come as we try and later jettison players that are on decent wages that nobody else will want, like Perez and Vestergaard. 3
Chrysalis Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 If all 3 players dont sign extensions, the question is why wont they do it.
Ric Flair Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 6 minutes ago, Chrysalis said: If all 3 players dont sign extensions, the question is why wont they do it. Want a new challenge / more successful club? Some of these players will have already been here 4 years come the end of the season and it's natural they might be wanting something different, let alone a bigger move. 1
Chrysalis Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Want a new challenge / more successful club? Some of these players will have already been here 4 years come the end of the season and it's natural they might be wanting something different, let alone a bigger move. Yep hence my question, it would seem they feel they cannot move onwards with the club if thats their reasons, lack of faith in the club/manager to qualify for CL as an example. Soyuncu is good on the ball aside from his occasional brain farts, Ricardo is a quality player going forward but for whatever reason he isnt showing it every game now, I think all three if they leave and the replacements are not up to par we could be a significantly worse team after it. 2
Deeg67 Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 Something isn’t right between Ricardo and Rodgers, you can just sense it. I think the club would prefer not to sell him this soon, but he may push for a move. 1 1
fuchsntf Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 10 minutes ago, Deeg67 said: Something isn’t right between Ricardo and Rodgers, you can just sense it. I think the club would prefer not to sell him this soon, but he may push for a move. Fk me..another conspiracy theory... Rodgers tenure is rolling into Dallas, Falcon crest, with Eastenders tastes. 3 1
Dahnsouff Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 13 minutes ago, Deeg67 said: Something isn’t right between Ricardo and Rodgers, you can just sense it. I think the club would prefer not to sell him this soon, but he may push for a move. Think you are dead wrong, as I think Ricardo would have been sold last season if were not still unfit. He has been here almost 3 1/2 years, so hardly soon.
Guest Chocolate Teapot Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said: Think you are dead wrong, as I think Ricardo would have been sold last season if were not still unfit. He has been here almost 3 1/2 years, so hardly soon. No he lost it with Ricardo after he was found stealing boiled eggs from the training ground ground. There's been cracks in their relationship ever since.
Dahnsouff Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 Just now, Chocolate Teapot said: No he lost it with Ricardo after he was found stealing boiled eggs from the training ground ground. There's been cracks in their relationship ever since. Poaching, no wonder he is in trouble. 2
Guest Chocolate Teapot Posted 10 November 2021 Posted 10 November 2021 2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Poaching, no wonder he is in trouble. Yep he's been in hot water ever since.
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