The Summer Overhaul

[Dahnsouff]

Tend to agree ( I got lambasted previously for suggesting that our Youri replacement is already in house ) but I feel Maddison (his position) is easier to replace than Youri ( what he brings ). Agree also that Kel could be very productive in a role where he is withdrawn from a striker. 

[LFox99]

27 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....did not say he was a "perfect #10" his default position is that area!!!

Strange that a  player (Maddison) who wishes to play a certain role is lampooned for his thinking.

What's the point of shuffling some of our available players into less preferred positions when we've already got naturals in that position ready to fill in for Youri? Why should Maddison play as a #8 only to keep KDH and/ or Bouba on the bench? Or why should we sacrifice one of our strikers to play him in the #10, a role that Madders' has thrived in over the last 2 seasons.

That Maddison "I'm a number 8" interview is over 2 maybe 3 years old by now, I'm still convinced he said all of that to make himself more appeasing to Southgate for a spot in the creatively already bloated England squad.

Edited 5 February 2022 by LFox99

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Mark said:

We'd need a RB as Justin is better on the left and we also have Thomas to play there, no such options on the right if Castagne leaves with Ricardo not guaranteed to be fit.

Sell Castagne for £18-20m and spend less than half that on Calvin Ramsay. It's the no brainer move of the summer if we want to maximise our spend in other areas.

[theessexfox]

3 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...are you saying he does not wish to play the #8 role, because that is where he sees himself!!!

At a push he can play as one of two #8s with Ndidi behind, obviously not a chance he can play in a midfield two with just Ndidi

[sacreblueits442]

6 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

At a push he can play as one of two #8s with Ndidi behind, obviously not a chance he can play in a midfield two with just Ndidi

....he could with a midfield three, I feel that is where we are going (or should be going) but I know Rodgers has an agenda for Ndidi!!!

                                   Kasper

              JJ  Fofana  Soyuncu  Thomas

                              Ndidi

                   KDH               Maddison

              Berardi       Daka       Barnes

 

 Obviously there are other options in the squad but the formation is a distinct possibility.

[Grebfromgrebland]

On 04/02/2022 at 15:24, urban.spaceman said:

I hope we're looking at a 2018 style window when we brought in Maddison, Ricardo, Evans, Soyuncu and Ward. Benkovic and Ghezzal were the only two bad signings.

 

At least one major signing for defence, midfield and the wings would be great. I expect us to get a decent fee for Youri and maybe Soyuncu. Allow Perez to leave for whatever and bring through a couple more youngsters. Allow Rodgers to lay down some great foundations for whoever comes next, like Puel did.

That was a great transfer window which set us up for some of the best football I've ever seen us play

[volpeazzurro]

On 04/02/2022 at 23:23, moore_94 said:

Our recruiment prior to Rodgers still served up some absolute dross whilst also bringing in some quality players, I don't think it has changed THAT much

 

Not every signing for any team is always going to be a hit. However, after the attempt at buying big and getting it very wrong with Slimani and Silva etc, the majority of our signings have not only been good for us but have given potential sell on value as well for further investment if necessary. These have been of various initial values but largely relatively young unknowns. 

 

The departures from that policy with Perez, Vestergaard and Bertrand have and are going to be in comparison, costly mistakes. All of these were well known and exposed in terms of what talent they had in the Premiership yet we still brought them in! 

 

It's just my view personally that we should stick to the previous model of recruitment whether Rodgers likes it or not. Our future lies in our choice in players and not Rodgers who, for whatever reason, I just don't see being here that much longer. His past record in the transfer market is poor and we don't need any more of his recommendations. 

[iancognito]

The overhaul will only be fringe players. Perez, Mendy, maybe Hamza and one of Maddison or Youri. Anyone putting names like Kasper, Evans and Albrighton on there is dreaming. 3 of our most committed and experienced players won't be going unless they ask to leave. Rodgers has always praised them for the attitude so I don't see that happening.

Lose Youri and/or Maddison and he'd have to be looking at someone like Ward Prowse, Dwight McNeil etc to come in. Or Scott Sinclair if it's Congerton's playbook.

[Shane]

https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11688/12532024/21-under-21-young-stars-of-the-efl

 

21 Under 21 - Young stars of the EFL

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Shane said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11688/12532024/21-under-21-young-stars-of-the-efl

 

21 Under 21 - Young stars of the EFL

That Rudoni at Wimbledon is one to keep an eye on. 

[Collymore]

This all depends on the the Youri situation.

 

Youri must be now entering £250k a week territory so the big question is can we stretch to meet those demands? 

 

That contract will cost the club about £120m in the short/medium term (having to pay the 4 years wages at £52m and missing out on the instant transfer fee) 

 

I'm wondering, whether we like it or not, we're going to be forced to sell him even if he was open to staying. 

 

We'll probably put a £150k contract together and say take it or leave it. He'll probably leave it and Brendan's summer plan will be from this money. A proportion of it would be replacing Youri so someone somewhere needs to sit down and analyse all of this to see which is the most cost effective/risk free way to go... 

 

Pay extra to Youri now and have insurance you have a top midfielder which should hold his value and be worth maybe £75 - £100m in 3/4 years. Or cash in now, save a wedge and take a risk of getting someone in that can step up to the plate (this worked with Ndidi replacing Kante and getting Maguire out but not so well looking for a Mahrez replacement)

 

I think what makes Youri so interesting is that he's so experienced but also so young, so throwing a big wedge at him over the next 4 or so years isn't as big a risk as say doing the same with a 28 year old. Youri should be in his prime at the end of his next contact. 

 

 

Edited 6 February 2022 by Collymore

[FOXYTALK]

On 04/02/2022 at 18:20, SMX11 said:

Thought this was reasonably interesting:

 

Some of their targets were OK. But didn't agree with their overall summary and review of the current team. 

[CloudFox]

20 minutes ago, Collymore said:

This all depends on the the Youri situation.

 

Youri must be now entering £250k a week territory so the big question is can we stretch to meet those demands? 

 

That contract will cost the club about £120m in the short/medium term (having to pay the 4 years wages at £52m and missing out on the instant transfer fee) 

 

I'm wondering, whether we like it or not, we're going to be forced to sell him even if he was open to staying. 

 

We'll probably put a £150k contract together and say take it or leave it. He'll probably leave it and Brendan's summer plan will be from this money. A proportion of it would be replacing Youri so someone somewhere needs to sit down and analyse all of this to see which is the most cost effective/risk free way to go... 

 

Pay extra to Youri now and have insurance you have a top midfielder which should hold his value and be worth maybe £75 - £100m in 3/4 years. Or cash in now, save a wedge and take a risk of getting someone in that can step up to the plate (this worked with Ndidi replacing Kante and getting Maguire out but not so well looking for a Mahrez replacement)

 

I think what makes Youri so interesting is that he's so experienced but also so young, so throwing a big wedge at him over the next 4 or so years isn't as big a risk as say doing the same with a 28 year old. Youri should be in his prime at the end of his next contact. 

 

 

Excellent post. The last bit about his age and experience is such a good point. And if he's Rodgers' 'coach on the pitch' we need someone who can come in with that experience. Maybe the CB we bring in can offer that experience though.

[An Sionnach]

If we offered Youri a £10 million contract that almost certainly trigger demands from the other core players and our wage bill would spiral out of control. We are running short of time to replace him with a similarly qualified player , if we let him leave in the summer. If we received £30 million or so , any targeted player would see his price rise. The alternative is keep him to the end of his contract. Youri is a sound professional and respects his reputation and I am sure he would try to maintain his standard. With a fit squad and his presence , we would certainly challenge top six. That would make us more attractive to any replacement , if we qualified for Europe. We would lose his transfer fee but make up a lot of that with qualification. He would be able to command a signing on fee and an even better contract as a free agent.

[themightyfin]

On 04/02/2022 at 22:09, Gazza M said:

Seems like there is a strategy in place as to which way the club is going. I hope that Brendan is going to compile a squad that isn't just 1 dimensional in the way we play but I have my doubts. 

 

We need to get more physicality in the team and I think our ability to see games out would improve with a striker capable of holding the ball up. Would also work well with our runners going beyond a target man.

 

We need leaders and I would hope to get a bit more experience in the squad. 

 

Out:

Ward (Wants to be first choice. Could raise a bit of capital.)

Soyuncu (Off form for a long time.)

Castagne (Fitness problems, replaceable and could raise funds.)

Tielemans (Wants a move, cash in unfortunately.)

Mendy (Verbally said he wants to leave last year. Best for all parties.

Choudhury (Not up to scratch.)

Praet (Verbally not happy with Rodgers)

Vestergaard (No need to explain)

Bertrand (As above.)

 

GK - Iverson promoted to squad

CB - Experienced like a Tarkowski 

LB- Let Justin play at RB. 

CM x2

Target man striker. 

 

 

 

 

Ward- never said he's unhappy waiting his time to be number 1 here. In fact signed a new contact this season so nit sure where you that that information from.

Soyuncu- yes not had a great season for him and form has dipped as has on most players but it's not helped he's virtually had a different partner every week because of injuries 

Timmy- No way we would get as a good a replacement for him with the money we would get.

Mendy- Would probably have to pay most if his wages to move him on anyway so maybe worth keeping him arund as a squad player.

Youri- won't get as much as you think 1 year left on his contract and wouldn't be surprised if he runs his contract down and leaves for nothing after.

Hamza- Would only get a small fee. 

Praet- Will probably go but again could be an issue getting his wages paid.

Vestergaard and Bertrand- Nobody will take them unless we pay them off I guess we are stuck with them. 

 

It's not football manager . Your reasoning don't really add up. 

Edited 6 February 2022 by themightyfin

[blabyboy]

59 minutes ago, FOXYTALK said:

Some of their targets were OK. But didn't agree with their overall summary and review of the current team. 

I thought up until the JJ section it was pretty fair. Agree about some of the targets. I do think the GKs were interesting and a position, along with CBs I'd look to prioritise.

[Ric Flair]

21 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Ward- never said he's unhappy waiting his time to be number 1 here. In fact signed a new contact this season so nit sure where you that that information from.

Soyuncu- yes not had a great season for him and form has dipped as has on most players but it's not helped he's virtually had a different partner every week because of injuries 

Timmy- No way we would get as a good a replacement for him with the money we would get.

Mendy- Would probably have to pay most if his wages to move him on anyway so maybe worth keeping him arund as a squad player.

Youri- won't get as much as you think 1 year left on his contract and wouldn't be surprised if he runs his contract down and leaves for nothing after.

Hamza- Would only get a small fee. 

Praet- Will probably go but again could be an issue getting his wages paid.

Vestergaard and Bertrand- Nobody will take them unless we pay them off I guess we are stuck with them. 

 

It's not football manager . Your reasoning don't really add up. 

Castagne will go in the summer for £20m and Ramsay will be his replacement.

[themightyfin]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Castagne will go in the summer for £20m and Ramsay will be his replacement.

He could possibly go who knows but much rather have a proven quality full back rather than an untried youngter at this this level. He could well turn out to be a superstar / another Justin but for every youngsters who makes it and fulfilled their potential there are 5 who don't. 

But I agree he looks the part. But different level so who knows? 

[Dahnsouff]

14 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

He could possibly go who knows but much rather have a proven quality full back rather than an untried youngter at this this level. He could well turn out to be a superstar / another Justin but for every youngsters who makes it and fulfilled their potential there are 5 who don't. 

But I agree he looks the part. But different level so who knows? 

So another Bertrand then?  

[themightyfin]

Ric..Losing Timmy an experienced international for one of the best teams in the word and replacing him with an unknown entity like Ramsay is a big risk.

It's a huge ask to expect an 18 year old to come in and play week in week out in one of the best leagues in the world against world class players .

I think people also forget the value of Timmys experience he brings to the team, with Evans looking all but done because of his injuries taking Timmy out and replacing him with an 18 year old is that wise?

Timmy could well move on I'm  not disputing that. Quality proven players will always be in demand and Ramsay may well turn out to be a star but it would be a brave move. 

Edited 6 February 2022 by themightyfin

[FosseSpark]

I think the overhaul will be quite extensive.

Youri will sadly go in order that we get to channel wage funds into keeping some others.

I also think Soyuncu will go just on a Capability basis. We shouldn't take less than £25m.

From the fringe I think we will actively look to move vestergaard, Bertrand, praet, mendy and Perez - yielding about £30m

Ward I think will also go taking the total to about £60m

This should help us stave off any interest in Ndidi, JJ, Fofana or Barnes.

I DO think Castagne will go. He will be injured pretty much into April so may well struggle to be front of mind for a big transfer fee in the summer. We surely wouldn't let him go for under £25-30m or it would be better to keep him.

 

 

I think we should bring in Tarkowski to ease the Evans transition and he's out of contract. Berardi as he's been chased for so long, Lookman as he's been a good squad player and contributor on loan.

This will still leave us light at least a first choice left back, reserve centre back and two  very competitive midfielders.

 

Net position will be 9 players leaving the main squad and 7 coming in,  with circa £80m coming in and £100m going out of the door. As a circa 30% churn of the squad  I think that would constitute a 'major overhaul' and would shift the power base to Kasper, JJ, Fofana, Ndidi, Dewsbury-Hall Maddison, Barnes, Daka as the spine of the squad.

 

 

25 squad:

GK Schmeichel, Iversen, Stolarcyk

DF Justin, Ricardo, Amartey, Evans, Fofana, TARKOWSKI, CENTRE BACK, Thomas, LEFT BACK

CM Ndidi Soumare Maddison, Dewsbury-Hall, TWO MIDFIELDERS

WM Albrighton, BERARDI, LOOKMAN, Barnes

ST Vardy, Daka, Iheanacho

 

Potential youth breakthroughs: Masinwhe, Madivadua, Braybrooke, Nelson, Brunt, McAteer, Alves, Godsmark - Ford

 

 

[themightyfin]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

So another Bertrand then?  

10 years ago maybe...

[Ric Flair]

29 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

He could possibly go who knows but much rather have a proven quality full back rather than an untried youngter at this this level. He could well turn out to be a superstar / another Justin but for every youngsters who makes it and fulfilled their potential there are 5 who don't. 

But I agree he looks the part. But different level so who knows? 

It's going to be difficult to keep Ricardo and Castagne content if we don't have European football next season and they somehow both get over their injury problems. 

 

I feel we've barely seen what Castagne is truly capable of which is frustrating as his opening 6 weeks here suggested he was going to be a huge player for us. I might be way off but I also sense he's not completely settled here and as we seem close to new deals for Justin and Ricardo then I could see us and the player both happy to go their seperate ways. 

 

Still seems to have plenty of interest from Italy.

[Ric Flair]

16 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Ric..Losing Timmy an experienced international for one of the best teams in the word and replacing him with an unknown entity like Ramsay is a big risk.

It's a huge ask to expect an 18 year old to come in and play week in week out in one of the best leagues in the world against world class players .

I think people also forget the value of Timmys experience he brings to the team, with Evans looking all but done because of his injuries taking Timmy out and replacing him with an 18 year old is that wise?

Timmy could well move on I'm  not disputing that. Quality proven players will always be in demand and Ramsay may well turn out to be a star but it would be a brave move. 

It's a risk, but the sorts of risks we had to take back in 2018/19 and that we seem much better at doing than signing perceived proven players anyway. 

 

I think it's a calculated risk that then further maximises our transfer funds elsewhere. If Ricardo wasn't signing a new deal it would be less plausible.

[An Sionnach]

The optimism expressed on money received for our players isn't backed up by our recent history. We have lost money on a number of players in the last few seasons . We should recover our spend on Tielemans , but on few others. Where is the demand for our players? We cannot let our core players leave while still contracted otherwise we will slip down the table fast. This process will have to be done with great care.