Who is responsible for the "mess" on and off the pitch?

[TonyN11]

11 hours ago, TheStig said:

 

I am wondering how we have ended up in such a muddle and mess in relation to the players´ contracts, salaries etc.?

 

Who is responsible and why do failures seem to have no consequences?

 

 

Long and expensive contracts - Rudkin?

 

8-10 contracts expiring simultaneously 2023 - Rudkin?

 

Abysmal defending set pieces - Touré and Stowell?

 

Prolongation of stadium expansion - ??

 

Not reaching Europe or CL - Rodgers + players (partly injury issues in 2021/22 but the 2 seasons prior to this was down to the players that now want out to get European football.......

 

Despite all the above I have seen no one being fired or any changes to the structure/organization of the club (apart from a new doc and at some point a new DF) if I´m not mistaken.

 

In other organizations failures of this magnitude would have had immediate consequences but we seem just to be ambling along.

 

I wonder if Top has taken "the eye of the ball" as we seem in a stalemate and the drive we had seems to have gone a bit.

 

Comments?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dames]

20 hours ago, Babylon said:

It’s a very weirdo notion that if we’d have been able to sign someone things would be ok and not a “mess”. As seemingly most of this is based on our current inability to buy someone, because they we’ve already spent heavily. 
 

I mean, we could have chosen not to blow £60m last summer, more than most clubs and keep a bit for this window. Would that have made much of a difference to the situation? Would people be happier because we had a new shiny toy?

Its not about a shiny new toy, there are glaring weaknesses across the whole squad that were exposed by the injuries last season. To not even be able to attempt to address it so far this summer is highly frustrating and the blame lies squarely with the DOF for sanctioning contracts and deals that have crippled the club this summer.

 

There is obviously an element of not being able to predict signings not working out but at the same time you can't cram a squad full of players on high wages and leave yourself with absolutely no wiggle room incase things go awry. Lessons should have been learned from past signings not working out, to have it consistently happen is extremely poor.

[tsintskaro]

This personal attacks on topic author shows how delusional this forum sometimes can be.

Things are far from being good and facts does not care about your feelings. 

criticism towards clubs hierarchy or even top or whatever he is called, is normal behaviour 

[smudgerfox]

22 hours ago, Col city fan said:

The ‘perspective’ will pan out over the season I guess. 
If our squad is as good as everyone says it is, the financial nonsense that seems to have enveloped the club won’t be an issue. We‘ll ‘be ok’ (whatever that means) and the ‘re-build’ (don’t forget that was the terms used by the club’s manager for THIS summer) can start next summer.

‘I’m not as convinced as many seem to be that the squad is anywhere near as good as people are making out. So, if we start to pick up injuries and to struggle (having not reinforced in anyway, shape or form this summer), the whole ‘perspective’ that you mention will QUICKLY change.

We‘ll see.

Edit… and believe you, me. If we do start to struggle this season, those now condescendingly saying ‘don’t worry’ and ‘what mess’? will be the first to start moaning.

👍

Agree - the assumption on here seems to be that no one - especially in central defence,  is going to get injured, suspended or need resting. With a new goalkeeper,  were we to need to revert to our squad centre backs we will have a very vulnerable defence as was fully illustrated in the Forest game. The uncertainty about who will be here and who will be gone come the end of the transfer window renders preseason virtually redundant as a tactical exercise. I have few worries about our goal threat and midfield but I never expected we might go into the new season with a defence weaker than last season - which it will be if we lose Kasper.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

Its not about a shiny new toy, there are glaring weaknesses across the whole squad that were exposed by the injuries last season. To not even be able to attempt to address it so far this summer is highly frustrating and the blame lies squarely with the DOF for sanctioning contracts and deals that have crippled the club this summer.

 

There is obviously an element of not being able to predict signings not working out but at the same time you can't cram a squad full of players on high wages and leave yourself with absolutely no wiggle room incase things go awry. Lessons should have been learned from past signings not working out, to have it consistently happen is extremely poor.

The new FFP only got approved in April this year and basically starts straight away. A process they accelerated because of covid and the losses clubs were facing. 
 

If you plan for one thing, and they change the rules part way through a season, it’s kinda difficult to plan for. 
 

We could sell an asset now to pay for things, just as we have done most seasons since promotion. But you probably won’t accept the sale of a Maddison or a Fofana will you? 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, tsintskaro said:

This personal attacks on topic author shows how delusional this forum sometimes can be.

Things are far from being good and facts does not care about your feelings. 

criticism towards clubs hierarchy or even top or whatever he is called, is normal behaviour 

That’s disrespectful- and totally uncalled for 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, smudgerfox said:

Agree - the assumption on here seems to be that no one - especially in central defence,  is going to get injured, suspended or need resting. With a new goalkeeper,  were we to need to revert to our squad centre backs we will have a very vulnerable defence as was fully illustrated in the Forest game. The uncertainty about who will be here and who will be gone come the end of the transfer window renders preseason virtually redundant as a tactical exercise. I have few worries about our goal threat and midfield but I never expected we might go into the new season with a defence weaker than last season - which it will be if we lose Kasper.

We finished 8th with a squad ravaged by injury, especially at the back, If you get more injuries than that, you can’t legislate for it. 
 

As for the defence being weaker if we lost Kasper than start of last season… we were without Justin and Fofana and a few others don’t forget. 

[cruzFOX]

Get your FAVOURITE lucky charms out folks we’re gonna need it. Have the Buddhist monks come back and bless the changing room and Seagrave while they are at it. As it’s stands we are in great shape to start the season with a bang -  it’s what may happen later that scares the crap out of me! If we’re not signing anyone so be it I’m done stressing. Let’s crack on. Oh and replace those clappers for rosemary beads every time we concede a corner.

[Dames]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

The new FFP only got approved in April this year and basically starts straight away. A process they accelerated because of covid and the losses clubs were facing. 
 

If you plan for one thing, and they change the rules part way through a season, it’s kinda difficult to plan for. 
 

We could sell an asset now to pay for things, just as we have done most seasons since promotion. But you probably won’t accept the sale of a Maddison or a Fofana will you? 

New FFP rules or not you run a huge risk when you bloat the squad with players on wages that are eating into 90% of revenue. I accept the rule change is a curve ball but there should have been more of an awareness to get on top of squad player wages, there have been contracts sanctioned that should never have been. 
 

I’d rather the club shifted the squad players but there will come a point that we have to sell Maddison or Fofana maybe even both. Its the way the club operates and I accept that. 
 

What I dont accept is duffers on over 60k a week. 

[Babylon]

34 minutes ago, Dames said:

New FFP rules or not you run a huge risk when you bloat the squad with players on wages that are eating into 90% of revenue. I accept the rule change is a curve ball but there should have been more of an awareness to get on top of squad player wages, there have been contracts sanctioned that should never have been. 
 

I’d rather the club shifted the squad players but there will come a point that we have to sell Maddison or Fofana maybe even both. Its the way the club operates and I accept that. 
 

What I dont accept is duffers on over 60k a week. 

Every single club had a load of duffers I’m afraid. 
 

Last season threw a curve ball due to injuries and we went into the market in a rush, when we might not have done. That Fofana injury could have eaten the contingency budget. 
 

 

[smudgerfox]

5 hours ago, Babylon said:

We finished 8th with a squad ravaged by injury, especially at the back, If you get more injuries than that, you can’t legislate for it. 
 

As for the defence being weaker if we lost Kasper than start of last season… we were without Justin and Fofana and a few others don’t forget. 

I think the problem is worse than you describe. Evans and Fofana are crucial but if we lose them we’re back to Amartey and Soyuncu. Even if we lose one of them we’re relying on one player who the manager clearly doesn’t trust. And Evans will not play 38 games. 
 

Kasper - even given his weakness with crosses - is the defensive leader and no replacement will immediately reproduce his back 4 influence. 

[Babylon]

8 hours ago, smudgerfox said:

I think the problem is worse than you describe. Evans and Fofana are crucial but if we lose them we’re back to Amartey and Soyuncu. Even if we lose one of them we’re relying on one player who the manager clearly doesn’t trust. And Evans will not play 38 games. 
 

Kasper - even given his weakness with crosses - is the defensive leader and no replacement will immediately reproduce his back 4 influence. 

We finished 8th with them missing for most of the season along with others. How can it be much worse than we had it last season?

[Claridge]

8 hours ago, smudgerfox said:

I think the problem is worse than you describe. Evans and Fofana are crucial but if we lose them we’re back to Amartey and Soyuncu. Even if we lose one of them we’re relying on one player who the manager clearly doesn’t trust. And Evans will not play 38 games. 
 

Kasper - even given his weakness with crosses - is the defensive leader and no replacement will immediately reproduce his back 4 influence. 

Obviously a new defensive leader is needed

[Bordersfox]

13 hours ago, cruzFOX said:

Get your FAVOURITE lucky charms out folks we’re gonna need it. Have the Buddhist monks come back and bless the changing room and Seagrave while they are at it. As it’s stands we are in great shape to start the season with a bang -  it’s what may happen later that scares the crap out of me! If we’re not signing anyone so be it I’m done stressing. Let’s crack on. Oh and replace those clappers for rosemary beads every time we concede a corner.

Rosemary beads?  Are they some new sort of scented sex toy, I certainly don't fancy them anyway my arse already clenches enough when we concede a corner.  

[Strokes]

On 27/07/2022 at 12:25, Adster said:

Blame culture coming in strong still I see. 

Yeah but who’s fault is that? 

[smudgerfox]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

We finished 8th with them missing for most of the season along with others. How can it be much worse than we had it last season?

Kasper missed one game and look what happened to the defence 

 

Fofana may be off to Chelsea 

 

Evans is ageing and injury prone 

 

where we finished last season is irrelevant - our defence may well be worse than last season - and let’s be clear it was abysmal for most of the season 

 

 

[goose2010]

 

7 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

Kasper missed one game and look what happened to the defence 

 

Fofana may be off to Chelsea 

 

Evans is ageing and injury prone 

 

where we finished last season is irrelevant - our defence may well be worse than last season - and let’s be clear it was abysmal for most of the season 

 

 

Is he?? or are you just panicking over blatant clickbait? 

 

The club is where it is and the situation we are in isnt ideal of course. 

 

Having the likes of JJ and Ricardo fully fit should not be sniffed at either. 

 

Also we have N'didi back which helps the defence out massively. 

 

I honestly don't get the panic. I really don't. We have a fully fit squad that is more than capable of mixing with the top 7 or 8. 

 

 

[Jonezy]

I really do not want to panic, but the narrative around the club this summer is a weird one.

 

Apparently we can't sign new players because our squad is bloated and the wage bill too big, which does sound fair and reasonable. This can't be breaking news for the club though, so it is strange, that we have seen absolutely no out-goings among the players nowhere near the starting 11. Instead rumours and media start running stories about sales of our most important players creating uncertainty about where the club really is going.

 

Then we have the Schmeichel rumours. If Schmeichel really wants a new challenge and can leave on good terms with the club, even helping the current situation by taking a huge chunk of the wage bill with him; why has that not been sorted ages ago?

 

It feels like the club has some hard decisions to make and really can't make its mind up. We do have a good squad and a pretty exciting first 11 when not ravaged by injuries, but all this uncertainty has made it hard to be proper excited about the new season.

[foxes_rule1978]

5th, 5th fa cup, 8th… what a mess

[coolhandfox]

13 minutes ago, Jonezy said:

I really do not want to panic, but the narrative around the club this summer is a weird one.

 

Apparently we can't sign new players because our squad is bloated and the wage bill too big, which does sound fair and reasonable. This can't be breaking news for the club though, so it is strange, that we have seen absolutely no out-goings among the players nowhere near the starting 11. Instead rumours and media start running stories about sales of our most important players creating uncertainty about where the club really is going.

Because the notion we need to reduce the squad size has other clubs thinking we need to sell stars when in fact we only need to sell the dead wood. We have 33 players that are over 21 to cut down into a 25 man squad.

 

I'm pretty sure we could have easily sold the likes of Praet, Soumare and Vestiguard for a combine totally of 20m and cut 150K if we we desperate.

 

The fact we are holding out for better deals tells me we are not desperate. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Jonezy said:

Then we have the Schmeichel rumours. If Schmeichel really wants a new challenge and can leave on good terms with the club, even helping the current situation by taking a huge chunk of the wage bill with him; why has that not been sorted ages ago?

Because we don't have a replacement, simple.

 

13 minutes ago, Jonezy said:

It feels like the club has some hard decisions to make and really can't make its mind up. We do have a good squad and a pretty exciting first 11 when not ravaged by injuries, but all this uncertainty has made it hard to be proper excited about the new season.

How do you know, maybe the have made them and as yet not executed them. 

 

They will know who they want to keep, who they want out and who they want in.

 

Still five weeks of the window left. 

Edited 30 July 2022 by coolhandfox

[FoxyLeon]

2 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

5th, 5th fa cup, 8th… what a mess

 

This is the type of short sighted attitude why we are in such a 'mess'. League finishes, unless taken advantage of, have zero influence over future success.

If Man City won the League for the next 5 years, then replaced their entire squad with Burnley's, would they continue to win the League? Recruitment and development is always King.

 

Rodgers has had, on the surface, three very respectable league finishes. But, when you realise that almost all of the key players responsible for those finishes where signed by Puel or developed by him (Evans, Soyuncu, Ricardo, Maddison, Tielemans, Barnes) or were here before (Vardy, Kasper etc), you soon realise, like I've been saying now for nearly two years, that Rodgers will inevitably leave us in a much worse place that when he arrived.

 

Puel left us having signed half a dozen players which allowed us to remain competitive fighting for Europe. Rodgers will leave us having signed half a dozen players which ensured financially we're in a right mess for the near future. Rodgers's league finishes, haven't set us up for success, have they? Whist Claude's football was uninspiring and he didn't come across well, his recruitment was excellent and is a large reason why we have had such a positive few years. I'd certainly rather have a 'rebuild' under Puel, than Rodgers.

[Golden Fox]

On 28/07/2022 at 17:11, tsintskaro said:

This personal attacks on topic author shows how delusional this forum sometimes can be.

Things are far from being good and facts does not care about your feelings. 

criticism towards clubs hierarchy or even top or whatever he is called, is normal behaviour 

So people doing their best at the club (who are having to navigate going from a European sized squad to a non-European sized squad and working to get the Ground extension done after getring the training ground done) are fair game for criticism but not people posting anonymously on a message board?

 

This was a venomous topic and opening post which didn't say anything that hadn't been said elsewhere, so I would have thought @TheStig knew full well what he was doing, and doesn't need your sympathy! 

[Steve Earle]

22 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Because the notion we need to reduce the squad size has other clubs thinking we need to sell stars when in fact we only need to sell the dead wood. We have 33 players that are over 21 to cut down into a 25 man squad.

 

I'm pretty sure we could have easily sold the likes of Praet, Soumare and Vestiguard for a combine totally of 20m and cut 150K if we we desperate.

 

The fact we are holding out for better deals tells me we are not desperate. 

 

 

Because we don't have a replacement, simple.

 

How do you know, maybe the have made them and as yet not executed them. 

 

They will know who they want to keep, who they want out and who they want in.

 

Still five weeks of the window left. 

Hi @coolhandfox - could you or another poster list for us the 33 players we have that are over 21? The club's website currently lists 26 first team players, a list which includes Luke Thomas who is I think under 21. Iversen would be another over-21 listed by the club as 'development squad', and Brunt, Hirst and Wright might be three more...???

[coolhandfox]

34 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Hi @coolhandfox - could you or another poster list for us the 33 players we have that are over 21? The club's website currently lists 26 first team players, a list which includes Luke Thomas who is I think under 21. Iversen would be another over-21 listed by the club as 'development squad', and Brunt, Hirst and Wright might be three more...???

Its 33 with Luke Thomas who under 21 (as born after Jan 2001), @moore_94 should be able to confirm if I've missed anyone.

 

So 31 over the 21 limit now Leshabela is out on loan. 

 

1    Kasper Schmeichel

2    Danny Ward

3    James Justin

4    Wesley Fofana

5    Caglar Soyuncu 

6    Ryan Bertrand

7    Jonny Evans

8    Daniel Amartey

9    Ricardo Pereira

10    Jannik Vestergaard

11    Timothy Castagne

12    Luke Thomas (UNDER 21)

13    Lewis Brunt

14    Harvey Barnes

15    Youri Tielemans

16    James Maddison

17    Marc Albrighton

18    Hamza Choudhury

19    Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall

20    Nampalys Mendy

21    Wilfred Ndidi

22    Dennis Praet

23    Boubakary Soumare

24    Thanawat Suengchitthawon

25    Jamie Vardy

26    Kelechi Iheanacho

27    Ayoze Perez

28    Khanya Leshabela (LOAN)

29    Callum Wright

30    Daniel Iversen

31    George Hirst

32    Josh Eppiah

33    Jakub Stolarczyk

[Steve Earle]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Its 33 with Luke Thomas who under 21 (as born after Jan 2001), @moore_94 should be able to confirm if I've missed anyone.

 

So 31 over the 21 limit now Leshabela is out on loan. 

 

1    Kasper Schmeichel

2    Danny Ward

3    James Justin

4    Wesley Fofana

5    Caglar Soyuncu 

6    Ryan Bertrand

7    Jonny Evans

8    Daniel Amartey

9    Ricardo Pereira

10    Jannik Vestergaard

11    Timothy Castagne

12    Luke Thomas (UNDER 21)

13    Lewis Brunt

14    Harvey Barnes

15    Youri Tielemans

16    James Maddison

17    Marc Albrighton

18    Hamza Choudhury

19    Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall

20    Nampalys Mendy

21    Wilfred Ndidi

22    Dennis Praet

23    Boubakary Soumare

24    Thanawat Suengchitthawon

25    Jamie Vardy

26    Kelechi Iheanacho

27    Ayoze Perez

28    Khanya Leshabela (LOAN)

29    Callum Wright

30    Daniel Iversen

31    George Hirst

32    Josh Eppiah

33    Jakub Stolarczyk

Thanks @coolhandfox. I thought I'd seen that Eppiah was off to Northampton? Another that won't make the grade (nor on high wages).

 

We can expect Wright & Hirst to find homes for the season. Assuming Eppiah has gone/goes. we're down to 28, of which Suengchitthawon won't be in the running for a place in the 25 (and won't be on high wages either), and one (at least) of the keepers will go too - so 26!

 

If I'm right so far, then from here to the end of the window we have to lose at least one more player than we sign...