Callum Doyle

[fkas]

23 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

Some people might also remember how we got promoted last time (scouting young players at all levels, and signing them for modest fees), and how we failed the time before that (lots of loanees and experience). They might also remember what happened next (mid-table survival, then title winners), as opposed to what's happened next when most sides packed with loanees and veterans go up. But they don't usually go up anyway, so perhaps that'll never be an issue.

 

Basically, I have no idea what you're on about here!

 

I mean we did invest in experience when we got promoted last time it wasn't all youngsters. Morgan, Wasil, Nugent, Oakley, Phillips and Gary Taylor-Fletcher. We had experience as well as youth. 

 

Got to get the balance right.

[Molson Canadian]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

We can take 4 on loan from them pal.

How many loans can we have in the match day squad?

[Sambiasso]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

We can take 4 on loan from them pal.

Cheers fella, Can all 4 be involved in the match day without restrictions? 

[Bluearmyfox28]

2 hours ago, STEVIE B said:

The main objective is to get promoted this coming season.

If the Doyle deal is a loan & we achieve our goal, I'm sure him going back to Man City will soon be forgotten. 

We have to accept what his parent club offer. We obviously want him, so we have to compromise. 

I also think some of the loans will be due to the club feeling they can upgrade further at that position should they manage an immediate return. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm only going on what we were told and that they are more than happy to sell their young players if the price is nice. They don't tend to agree to options to buy, what's really in it for them? They like to get a decent fee with add ons and possible sell on clauses and buy back clauses.

 

We've either not been willing to pay the inflated fee they'd want for a player of his experience and potential or they've had a change of heart. The fact they're willing to sell James Trafford suggests its more likely to be the former.

I think the interest in Harwood-Bellis could have swayed their decision as well. Harwood-Bellis is being value at £15m with only a year left on his contract after a great year in the championship.

 

Figure was around £7m for Doyle from what I seen, should he have a great season this year for us, it could drive his value up another £8m. From Man City’s perspective it makes sense to take that chance rather than selling him now.

[sacreblueits442]

36 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

We can take 4 on loan from them pal.

...I would hope that Borges is one of them, it would be the biggest letdown if he isn't part of the starting eleven!!!

[Bluearmyfox28]

42 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

We can take 4 on loan from them pal.

2 have to be under the age of 21 right? Obviously with Doyle being one and leaving another slot for someone like Mebude.

[Ric Flair]

47 minutes ago, Sambiasso said:

Cheers fella, Can all 4 be involved in the match day without restrictions? 

Yes, we can have a maximum of 5 loans in any matchday squad but can loan more bit obviously have to leave some out of any game day.

[Bert]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm only going on what we were told and that they are more than happy to sell their young players if the price is nice. They don't tend to agree to options to buy, what's really in it for them? They like to get a decent fee with add ons and possible sell on clauses and buy back clauses.

 

We've either not been willing to pay the inflated fee they'd want for a player of his experience and potential or they've had a change of heart. The fact they're willing to sell James Trafford suggests its more likely to be the former.

The supposed fee was around £10m. Which when you consider his previous two seasons which have earned rave reviews, the potential everyone knows he has, would be madness. Especially when we’ve paid near that for Coady. This lad is only going to get better. He fits perfectly into the mould of how Man City play. I agree regarding the option to buy. Say he has another stormer and we’ve got the option to buy for 10/15m when they could potentially sell him for a lot more would be silly. I’d be very much hedging my bets that they’ve got plans for him. 
 

Regarding Trafford, he’s just had the summer of his life and they’re not going to replace Ederson anytime soon, which as you know, there’s only one place for a keeper. 

[FrankieADZ]

22 minutes ago, Bert said:

The supposed fee was around £10m. Which when you consider his previous two seasons which have earned rave reviews, the potential everyone knows he has, would be madness. Especially when we’ve paid near that for Coady. This lad is only going to get better. He fits perfectly into the mould of how Man City play. I agree regarding the option to buy. Say he has another stormer and we’ve got the option to buy for 10/15m when they could potentially sell him for a lot more would be silly. I’d be very much hedging my bets that they’ve got plans for him. 
 

Regarding Trafford, he’s just had the summer of his life and they’re not going to replace Ederson anytime soon, which as you know, there’s only one place for a keeper. 

plus on many if not all of the young players they sell on, they have buy back and sell on clauses, plus in regards keepers, City are pretty safe in that area, Trafford would be what, 4/5 choice

while Doyle as you said fits more the city mould

[Bluearmyfox28]

Just now, FrankieADZ said:

plus on many if not all of the young players they sell on, they have buy back and sell on clauses, plus in regards keepers, City are pretty safe in that area, Trafford would be what, 4/5 choice

while Doyle as you said fits more the city mould

Also left footed which is valued highly now days in centre backs.

[FrankieADZ]

6 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Also left footed which is valued highly now days in centre backs.

very true, its one of them where i think City was open to it at one stage but now have had second thoughts and are waiting to see how he gets on this season, then potentially sell or keep after that

[DerbyshireFox]

Man City aren’t daft. Look at the sales they’ve had from their academy in the past 18months. Trafford is going to Burnley for shy of £20m without any championship football at all. If Doyle has a good season with a high profile championship side, they will get more then £10m for him next summer. If he helps us to get back up and in a stronger position going forward, it’s worth a loan. If we’d laid out £10m on him, that’s almost £30m spent without bringing in any creative attackers, which at this level is a lot of money. Happy with a loan and see where we can strengthen in the middle. Still plenty of deadwood that needs chopping off the wage bill 

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, DerbyshireFox said:

Man City aren’t daft. Look at the sales they’ve had from their academy in the past 18months. Trafford is going to Burnley for shy of £20m without any championship football at all. If Doyle has a good season with a high profile championship side, they will get more then £10m for him next summer. If he helps us to get back up and in a stronger position going forward, it’s worth a loan. If we’d laid out £10m on him, that’s almost £30m spent without bringing in any creative attackers, which at this level is a lot of money. Happy with a loan and see where we can strengthen in the middle. Still plenty of deadwood that needs chopping off the wage bill 

Goes back even further than that in the 21/22 season they sold the likes of Jack Harrison and  Lukas Nmecha. 
 

Last year after signing the likes of Haaland, Gomez, Phillips and Akanji on player turnover alone they managed a profit of around £12m.

 

This season they are selling players like Harwood-Bellis £15m, Trafford £18m, Borges £15m, Charles £10m, Muric £7m… that’s a total income of £65m on players that won’t make the squad. 
 

The fact selling Trafford and Charles has paid for Kovacic alone is very impressive. I pray we significantly oversee our academy it can be so beneficial.

[Ted Maul]

The 'no option to buy' would suggest that those are Man City's terms rather than ours- can't think why we wouldn't at least include the option next summer if it was on the table.

[Mark_w]

10 hours ago, fkas said:

 

I mean we did invest in experience when we got promoted last time it wasn't all youngsters. Morgan, Wasil, Nugent, Oakley, Phillips and Gary Taylor-Fletcher. We had experience as well as youth. 

 

Got to get the balance right.

Oakley?! I think your memory might be playing tricks on you 

[Ric Flair]

52 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

The 'no option to buy' would suggest that those are Man City's terms rather than ours- can't think why we wouldn't at least include the option next summer if it was on the table.

Man City seldom do options to buy, there were discussions over a permanent transfer but either we aren't willing to pay what they want / agree to the stipulations that come with signing Man City academy players or Man City had a change of heart on him.

 

As some have said Harwood-Bellis is now looking very likely to leave permanently with only a year left on his deal and maybe they want to keep at least 1 for a possible 1st team place there in the future.

[ALC Fox]

Quite smart from Man City, this. If he excels at Championship level again, he proves he's ready for a step up. If we're promoted, it could well be with us and, as a Premier League club, we may be willing part with more cash, e.g. £15-20m rather than £9m. And, if not with us, another Premier League club may have noticed his talent.

 

Obviously Man City don't need the money but anything extra in the Income column will help to offset any spending they want to make.

[Fox seen in Norwich]

14 hours ago, LeePhilpottsBaldSpot said:

I think it'll be more Faes wanting out than us wanting to sell him.

 

But if we don't sell, Doyle will join Coady, Souttar, Faes, Vestegaard & Nelson as CBs and Justin & Castagne can play in a back 3 too. Ndidi and Hamza can do a job there too, if needed.

 

I wouldn't be against more CBs, but until we move some of those on I'd prioritise attacking midfielders and maybe a keeper. Which makes me think adding a defender is pre-empting some of the above leaving - probably the two Belgians.

 

I forgot we got Coady 🤦🏼‍♂️

[indierich06]

8 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Goes back even further than that in the 21/22 season they sold the likes of Jack Harrison and  Lukas Nmecha. 
 

Last year after signing the likes of Haaland, Gomez, Phillips and Akanji on player turnover alone they managed a profit of around £12m.

 

This season they are selling players like Harwood-Bellis £15m, Trafford £18m, Borges £15m, Charles £10m, Muric £7m… that’s a total income of £65m on players that won’t make the squad. 
 

The fact selling Trafford and Charles has paid for Kovacic alone is very impressive. I pray we significantly oversee our academy it can be so beneficial.

You have to admire how well run Man City is as a club - it can't just be down to money, because no other academy is getting this kind of money for their graduates. You can see them doing this for years to come. I do think there should be tighter restrictions on players you can recruit to your academy though, doesn't seem fair that City can just hoover up all the top talents.

[indierich06]

55 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

Quite smart from Man City, this. If he excels at Championship level again, he proves he's ready for a step up. If we're promoted, it could well be with us and, as a Premier League club, we may be willing part with more cash, e.g. £15-20m rather than £9m. And, if not with us, another Premier League club may have noticed his talent.

 

Obviously Man City don't need the money but anything extra in the Income column will help to offset any spending they want to make.

It's an insanely good model. See also - buy-back clauses for all of the players they sell on, so if they ever get to the kind of level where Man City would want to bring them back, they can do it for a relatively low fee.

[Stadt]

7 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

You have to admire how well run Man City is as a club - it can't just be down to money, because no other academy is getting this kind of money for their graduates. You can see them doing this for years to come. I do think there should be tighter restrictions on players you can recruit to your academy though, doesn't seem fair that City can just hoover up all the top talents.

They're excellent behind the scenes. If you appoint the right people you don't need a knowledgeable owner. We don't have either in place.

[indierich06]

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

They're excellent behind the scenes. If you appoint the right people you don't need a knowledgeable owner. We don't have either in place.

The thing is, for a club with such a low commercial revenue ceiling, you'd think we'd be trying to replicate this model as much as possible. It's bonkers that we're leaving the running of the club to people like Rudkin, who just don't have a clue what they're doing. There's no vision or long term planning.

 

[lcfcbluearmy]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We can take 4 on loan from them pal.

Do 2 have to be under 21 though? I know Doyle is U21

[lcfcbluearmy]

13 hours ago, Sambiasso said:

Cheers fella, Can all 4 be involved in the match day without restrictions? 

Can have up to 5 loan players in match day squad dosent matter where from