Kelechi Iheanacho

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, shen said:

A good spell lasting a couple of seasons? Was a key reason we won the FA Cup? Stepped up when Vards got injured and lost form? He's not a saviour by any means, but he really gets shafted by our managers and fans in general.

Couple of seasons??

 

Come on.

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, STUHILL said:

Would love to get @StriderHiryu's view on this. 

I certainly saw value and positive contribution in Nacho's play in the games so far. 

He hasn't scored yet (thanks to the post!) but he seems to be suited to the false No.9 Enzo seems to have employed.

Here are Kelechi's stats versus Piroe. Which player looks better? One of these played in a team that got relegated and struggled by the way.

 

 

 

So you might say "hold on what about just this season?" And that would be a fair question, so let's look at stats for this season:

 

 

Piroe has better xG, but Kelechi has had the same amount of shots in about 60% of the same minutes. Plus has better stats elsewhere.

 

Fans get obsessed with shiny new toys, and get bored of old ones. But I simply do not think there is any striker remotely close to being as good as Iheanacho in this division, nor would we be likely to sign one that is. He may not look that effective on the pitch, but other than goals scored, he's been one of the best so far. Of course Strikers are there to score, but the underlying data suggests it's a matter of when and not if he will start bagging plenty.

 

And this is not taking into account the slightly different role he plays to a traditional fox in the box player.

 

 

 

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, splinterdream said:

Oh, didn't know that, shame if that's the case, not sure why piroe would sign for 2 Yr extension as better clubs were showing interest and he could walk on a free next season, unless he doesn't back himself or sees a future with Swansea 

 

If he has signed a deal it will be for higher wages and a low minimum release fee.

[splinterdream]

18 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

If he has signed a deal it will be for higher wages and a low minimum release fee.

Which would be smart as any club paying the release has to pay him even higher wages 

[gurru991]

For me personally, I feel it needs to be a club policy that that all players are sold before heading into their final year.  All the lost transfer money adds up very quickly. 

I would sell Ndidi and Nacho for whatever I could get & stop the bleeding .

[Finnegan]

45 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Here are Kelechi's stats versus Piroe. Which player looks better? One of these played in a team that got relegated and struggled by the way.

 

 

 

So you might say "hold on what about just this season?" And that would be a fair question, so let's look at stats for this season:

 

 

Piroe has better xG, but Kelechi has had the same amount of shots in about 60% of the same minutes. Plus has better stats elsewhere.

 

Fans get obsessed with shiny new toys, and get bored of old ones. But I simply do not think there is any striker remotely close to being as good as Iheanacho in this division, nor would we be likely to sign one that is. He may not look that effective on the pitch, but other than goals scored, he's been one of the best so far. Of course Strikers are there to score, but the underlying data suggests it's a matter of when and not if he will start bagging plenty.

 

And this is not taking into account the slightly different role he plays to a traditional fox in the box player.

 

 

 

 

Jesus, stay in your own lane pal.

 

[Gerard]

14 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

For me personally, I feel it needs to be a club policy that that all players are sold before heading into their final year.  All the lost transfer money adds up very quickly. 

I would sell Ndidi and Nacho for whatever I could get & stop the bleeding .

 

I've always though the pivot point from when the club gives advantage to the player is two years. At two years left it's about 50/50 but once you let the player run beyond that then they start having the whip hand.

 

It's why I wasn't overly happy when Tielemans was adamant he was signing a 4 year deal instead of the usual 5 year deal for a footballer of his age and transfer fee. Ideally at two years the player should sign or new deal or be sold. It's why I was happy to see Barnes sold whilst we still had some power unlike the Maddison transfer when on another timeline Tottenham are playing hardball with one year left.

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Here are Kelechi's stats versus Piroe. Which player looks better? One of these played in a team that got relegated and struggled by the way.

 

 

 

So you might say "hold on what about just this season?" And that would be a fair question, so let's look at stats for this season:

 

 

Piroe has better xG, but Kelechi has had the same amount of shots in about 60% of the same minutes. Plus has better stats elsewhere.

 

Fans get obsessed with shiny new toys, and get bored of old ones. But I simply do not think there is any striker remotely close to being as good as Iheanacho in this division, nor would we be likely to sign one that is. He may not look that effective on the pitch, but other than goals scored, he's been one of the best so far. Of course Strikers are there to score, but the underlying data suggests it's a matter of when and not if he will start bagging plenty.

 

And this is not taking into account the slightly different role he plays to a traditional fox in the box player.

Thanks! Personally, i don't think its a case of is Piroe a better player than Nacho. Surely Nacho must be, as he has played in the PL for a number of years and been a part of a very successful Leicester side, until its downfall. Piroe is on a different trajectory.  When Nacho is on song, he is brilliant.

 

But the situation is more nuanced than the stats and history alone. Nacho is a (potentially) sellable asset (assuming someone wants him), on large wages who could very likely walk away for nothing at the end of the season. We have seen how this can (but not necessarily will) affect players performance. There seems to be an assumption for some that Nacho is critical to our promotion, and isn't the sort of player who would let winding a contract down affect his performance.

 

So the question for the club is, can that really be the case? Is Nacho critical to our promotion attempt and worth losing a fee and paying inflated wages for? Or are we just as likely to promoted without him, and if we make a shrewd purchase, end up with a sellable asset at the end of it with a player on an upward trajectory? 

 

Its difficult, and nothing is guaranteed in football. Nacho might start banging them in for fun next week for the rest of the season, he might lose faith and fall out with the management, or he might get injured. There is a risk to everything. I am just not sure I sit firmly in the camp of keeping him and making an exception for the 1 year left on his deal. I have this thinking for everyone with 1 year remaining, including Vesty (who is starting every week). If they won't sign an amended deal fitting of our current position, i think we need to offload (purchaser dependant!).

 

Right now i have to trust the club and Maresca that they have this under some sort of control. I dont know what Maresca actually wants short of medium term.

Edited 22 August 2023 by Chelmofox

[The_77]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

Here are Kelechi's stats versus Piroe. Which player looks better? One of these played in a team that got relegated and struggled by the way.

 

 

 

So you might say "hold on what about just this season?" And that would be a fair question, so let's look at stats for this season:

 

 

Piroe has better xG, but Kelechi has had the same amount of shots in about 60% of the same minutes. Plus has better stats elsewhere.

 

Fans get obsessed with shiny new toys, and get bored of old ones. But I simply do not think there is any striker remotely close to being as good as Iheanacho in this division, nor would we be likely to sign one that is. He may not look that effective on the pitch, but other than goals scored, he's been one of the best so far. Of course Strikers are there to score, but the underlying data suggests it's a matter of when and not if he will start bagging plenty.

 

And this is not taking into account the slightly different role he plays to a traditional fox in the box player.

 

 

 

 

[funkyrobot]

6 hours ago, CaliFOXnia said:

I'm not sure how that constitutes "hate", but no probs   .. For me watching him it's always far more frustration than inspiration. All subjective of course, and wouldn't say it's anywhere near a hatred of the man. 

 

I just think it's more realistic to say he isn't, and IMO will never be a consistent 20 goal a season striker, I'd argue even at this level. Maybe he will come good in the Championship? I concede he is more capable than JV and Daka in the build up but as a striker you're getting judged on your bread and butter which is sticking the ball in the back of the net. 

 

What is a problem however, as we've seen, is turning our noses up at fees for players and allowing them to walk for free. Knowingly, as well by the looks of it. He isn't signing a new deal so why on earth wouldn't we sell if the opportunity to raise a fee arises? Especially one as high as being quoted at 15m?

If that sales reduces the chance of promotion then it makes no sense. We should be selling a striker not in Enzo’s plans who doesn’t necessarily need to be replaced. That player is Patson Daka. 

[funkyrobot]

55 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Jesus, stay in your own lane pal.

 

I thought your stats were purely aimed at highlighting Daka as being an (on-paper) world class striker tho?

[Finnegan]

15 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I thought your stats were purely aimed at highlighting Daka as being an (on-paper) world class striker tho?

 

In all seriousness, I wouldn't even describe Daka as my favourite Leicester player. Partly it became a meme but more than that, he's a good example to use of a player that people criminally under rate. 

 

I'm more about championing statistics than I am any one player and I'm quite keen to disprove people's "sight tests" when they're making snap judgements about footballers that don't match up to the evidence. I actually started doing it years ago arguing the case for Vardy being actually, genuinely, legitimately world class (as in honestly one of the best strikers in the world) but less people debate that now. 

 

Daka is just a very convenient example because aesthetically he's clumsy and he seems to lose a lot of physical contests which are two things absolutely guaranteed to trigger some City fans in to calling someone shit. But the stats don't really agree with that. 

 

I could have taken the opposite stance and gone on the offensive against someone like Praet or Albrighton who people like apologising for but I think it's generally less toxic to use stats to defend one of our players as opposed to just tearing them down. 

 

Edited 22 August 2023 by Finnegan

[MPH]

1 hour ago, gurru991 said:

For me personally, I feel it needs to be a club policy that that all players are sold before heading into their final year.  All the lost transfer money adds up very quickly. 

I would sell Ndidi and Nacho for whatever I could get & stop the bleeding .

 

this is not football manager… you can’t force someone to buy a player…

[StriderHiryu]

Those who say we should cash in because he has one year left on his contract, that is a fair point given the debacles of Tielemans and Soyuncu.

 

But we simply objectively won't be able to get a player that is better than Iheanacho. The stats back that statement up. The only player in recent years that is comparable statistically was Alexsandr Mitrovic the season he scored 40 goals or something crazy like that.

 

I hope he stays but I am surprised someone in the top leagues doesn't realise what an underrated and undervalued player Kelechi is.

[funkyrobot]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

In all seriousness, I wouldn't even describe Daka as my favourite Leicester player. Partly it became a meme but more than that, he's a good example to use of a player that people criminally under rate. 

 

I'm more about championing statistics than I am any one player and I'm quite keen to disprove people's "sight tests" when they're making snap judgements about footballers that don't match up to the evidence. I actually started doing it years ago arguing the case for Vardy being actually, genuinely, legitimately world class (as in honestly one of the best strikers in the world) but less people debate that now. 

 

Daka is just a very convenient example because aesthetically he's clumsy and he seems to lose a lot of physical contests which are two things absolutely guaranteed to trigger some City fans in to calling someone shit. But the stats don't really agree with that. 

 

I could have taken the opposite stance and gone on the offensive against someone like Praet or Albrighton who people like apologising for but I think it's generally less toxic to use stats to defend one of our players as opposed to just tearing them down. 

 

Why use the word toxic? It’s an very extreme word when all we are talking about is whether a player is worthy of praise for his time at Leicester. You clearly don’t rate Albrighton or Praet, that doesn’t mean you are toxic - it just means you disagree with our current manager!
 

Patson is clearly a nice lad but I don’t see the on-paper statistical Leicester City #baller that you do. More importantly, Maresca doesn’t see it which is why Danny Ward makes the bench ahead of him. 
 

[STUHILL]

7 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

this is not football manager… you can’t force someone to buy a player…

Or force a player to be sold - Vestergaard. 
 

This idea of making players sign new contract extensions with 2 years left to run on their current ones is quite unworkable too. 

Very few players are going to accept such an ultimatum and then we either have to sell our best and most ambitious players on a regular basis OR we have to operate how most clubs do and just try to get the balance right. Something we admittedly have struggled to do recently.

 

I actually think there is a good chance Iheanacho stays with us beyond next season if he is playing each week. 
 

 

[CountesthorpeFox1]

1 hour ago, gurru991 said:

For me personally, I feel it needs to be a club policy that that all players are sold before heading into their final year.  All the lost transfer money adds up very quickly. 

I would sell Ndidi and Nacho for whatever I could get & stop the bleeding .

I couldn’t agree more with this policy….. If it was 2 years ago though. 
 

Now we have the financial insecurities of not being promoted this season (which I think we will see if we go up normality resumes and if we don’t we’re probably selling everything half decent we have and spending a decade in the football league) 

 

We are now in a position of taking low fees and taking high wages off our books to not get promoted and risk our future. Don’t get me wrong we could be gambling by not getting rid and screwing ourselves even more if we don’t get promoted by keeping the likes of Kel etc 

 

But if we go up or not, after this season your original point simply has to be put in place, it’s common practice I have no idea why we’ve not done this everybody else bloody does 

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Why use the word toxic?

 

If I posted as many posts constantly criticising one of our players as I have constantly praising Daka or Iheanacho, I'd consider that fairly toxic behaviour tbf. 

 

I've posted quite a lot haven't I at the end of the day

 

4 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

More importantly, Maresca doesn’t see it which is why Danny Ward makes the bench ahead of him. 

 

I think that's quite obviously because we don't want to injure an asset we consider to be very sellable. Maresca apparently quite liked Castagne but we know he's heading off. 

 

If Daka is still at the club come September 1st I imagine he'll be back involved. 

 

[funkyrobot]

9 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If I posted as many posts constantly criticising one of our players as I have constantly praising Daka or Iheanacho, I'd consider that fairly toxic behaviour tbf. 

 

I've posted quite a lot haven't I at the end of the day

 

 

I think that's quite obviously because we don't want to injure an asset we consider to be very sellable. Maresca apparently quite liked Castagne but we know he's heading off. 

 

If Daka is still at the club come September 1st I imagine he'll be back involved. 

 

I haven’t seen many positive posts from you about Iheanacho tbh. Just lots of praise for Daka and some toxicity for poor Sharkey and Dennis. 😂

[Foxin_Mad]

Tbh Rudkin is going to struggle to replace Nacho if he goes. He is the most incompetent ****wit in football, I have absolutely not confidence in what he is doing. If this season works out its more by luck (and Enzos skill) than judgement. They guy is blundering along, totally out of his depth. 

[Dan LCFC]

10 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

We can't keep letting players leave for free at the end of their contracts.

 

 As it stands Ndidi, Choudhury,  Vestergaard, Iheanacho and Praet all walk for free in the summer.

We can't, but the damage has already sort of been done. We're in a no win situation on this one - letting him go for nothing in a year is probably going to beat selling him for a pittance this late in the window.

[gurru991]

3 hours ago, MPH said:

 

this is not football manager… you can’t force someone to buy a player…

No I understand that but you can make them available  & listen to offers.  Tielemans as an example, he played us like a cheap violin. Sometimes you need to cut your losses and take what you can get.

Edited 23 August 2023 by gurru991

[MPH]

2 hours ago, gurru991 said:

No I understand that but you can make them available  & listen to offers.  Tielemans as an example, he played us like a cheap violin. Sometimes you need to cut your losses and take what you can get.

 

there’s definitely way more that goes on behind the scenes than we ever get to hear about…

[Sly]

5 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Tbh Rudkin is going to struggle to replace Nacho if he goes. He is the most incompetent ****wit in football, I have absolutely not confidence in what he is doing. If this season works out its more by luck (and Enzos skill) than judgement. They guy is blundering along, totally out of his depth. 

Peter Taylor 

[Sly]

From an accounting point of view, every player will have a book value when they join, which is fairly “sketchy”. 

 

5 years left - £25m

4 years left - £20m

3 years left - £15m

2 years left - £10m

1 year left - £5m 

 

Thats a rough example, however we’re not getting a great deal of money for him either way if he’s sold. At best we’ll likely get £15,00,000? 

 

Lets say he’s now on £80k per week. 40 weeks between September 1st and May 31st.  He’s going to cost us £3.2m in wages.

 

If we were to sign Piroe, he’ll be closer to £20,000,000 and maybe command wages of £70kish? So we’d save £400k in wages but pay £5,000,000 more to acquire a striker that doesn’t know the club, players and risk us not getting promoted.

 

We’d be better keeping Iheanacho and offering him an increased wage. He knows the club, knows the system and stats prove he’s a player that can play the system. 
 

Other side of the coin though.

 

 

Piroe is a 20 goal a season championship striker. Untried in the Premier League. However, 2 years younger than Iheanacho. Let’s say we sign him, get promoted but he fails to cut it in the Premier League. He would still have resale value, selling him back to the Championship in the January transfer window. 
 

Do we honestly believe Iheanacho will average a goal every other game for us? He’s inconsistent and a frustrating player. His best season for us, was when he played in a two with Vardy. He’s maybe better a false 9 or even a 10, however does he have the work rate to play the Maresca system? Additionally looking at working relationships, he’s clearly close to Ndidi, who’s own future is debatable. If he goes, how does that impact him?