VAR

[UniFox21]

16 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Still don't know how they haven't looked at other sports and made it better. Rugby a prime example. The ref makes a decision which is clearly communicated to the TMO (VAR), e.g. on field decision is offside, is there a reason I should award the goal or can you confirm if there was no offside. Communication and understanding of the on-field decision seems to have been the issue for the weekend's call.

For sure, communication needs improving. Much clearer checks built in just as Rugby do. Better match day communication, being able to listen to official communication when these checks happen.

 

Hopefully this error brings in that the communication used is more concise and includes aspects as you've mentioned. 

 

15 minutes ago, foxes1988 said:

The other issue var has is fans don't understand it. The amount of people saying that it's for clear and obvious errors when refering to a possible offside shows fans just don't do enough reading of rules and policies to appreciate when and where errors are being made in Var

Tbf fans not understanding things isn't a bench match given for a few years after he'd left, bloke behind me was still blaming Chillwell when we gave the ball away.

[Scotch]

VAR was brought in to avoid making blatant errors but they are still happening. They will always happen because regardless of how many angles you watch it from and how much you slow it down, decisions come down to the ref so they will always be inconsistent and prone to being wrong. So it's failed in that regard. 

 

Scrap it and bring in the offside technology which looks precise and accurate and let's make our other bad decisions the old fashioned way without worrying about offsides at least. 

[Babylon]

26 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Still don't know how they haven't looked at other sports and made it better. Rugby a prime example. The ref makes a decision which is clearly communicated to the TMO (VAR), e.g. on field decision is offside, is there a reason I should award the goal or can you confirm if there was no offside. Communication and understanding of the on-field decision seems to have been the issue for the weekend's call.

Reading the transcript of the VAR was baffling, it's like some weird management speak rather than clear and decisive language like in Rugby, as you point out. The dialog between the TMO and the referee is very basic in a way, no messing, no extra comment or words. 

 

"No goal, offside given, any reason to overturn that?"

"Yeah he's onside you great wallop"

[Bert]

It’s just a shambles. The people running it are incompetent. 

[turkish14]

1 hour ago, trabuch said:

People say that because football should be geared towards the enjoyment of people watching in the stadium. Without the fans in the stadium football wouldn't have the TV audiences it currently has.  VAR has tainted the match day experience. 

My enjoyment of waiting for a correct decision is more, over getting home seeing highlights having lost to a goal that shouldn’t of stood.

[KrefelderFox666]

54 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Reading the transcript of the VAR was baffling, it's like some weird management speak rather than clear and decisive language like in Rugby, as you point out. The dialog between the TMO and the referee is very basic in a way, no messing, no extra comment or words. 

 

"No goal, offside given, any reason to overturn that?"

"Yeah he's onside you great wallop"

Yh I listened to that transcript yesterday. Such weird comms between them. No wonder the ref has no idea what goes on half the time. 

[TheUltimateWinner]

No matter how much technology you bring in, there will still be errors if the quality of referee is as poor as it is.

 

Technology worked perfectly. ****ing hell, listening to the audio, the VAR operator worked perfectly, he was seemingly the only competent one in the room.

 

How is it that a individual probably on 1/3 of the wage of the referees is the only one to have the balls and knowledge of the game (which isn't in his remit) to say, hang on guys you've made a mistake.

 

"Yeah offside. Goal." -  what the **** is that?!

 

The culture of referees is rotten. Mike Dean has summed it up perfeclty by coming out saying he didn't want to dob his mate in. There needs to be an outside body come in and fire a rocket up their arses, none of this, well we'll replace the top referee with a nother referee. There needs to be reform, there's enough money in the game to make it happen.

 

Yet the annoying thing is, all this event will probably do is bring forward semi-automated offisdes, which, doesn't deal with the big problem at hand, which is the standard of reffing.

[mohammedsaqib]

As others have said, it’s essentially a personal preference for the choice between getting a few more decisions right with VAR (but not all) vs the reduced enjoyment of not being able to celebrate goals instantly. 

It’s much better without and I would accept getting some decisions against us for the greater good. 

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, turkish14 said:

My enjoyment of waiting for a correct decision is more, over getting home seeing highlights having lost to a goal that shouldn’t of stood.

But this still happens with VAR in place, so now you get to wait and STILL get an incorrect decision.

[Dan LCFC]

The automated offsides have worked and they actually provide an instant decision like goal line technology does. Those two things are as far as it should go. The current set up is absolutely appalling, utterly terrible to watch in both the ground and on TV.

[Fear Of The Fox]

3 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Still don't know how they haven't looked at other sports and made it better. Rugby a prime example. The ref makes a decision which is clearly communicated to the TMO (VAR), e.g. on field decision is offside, is there a reason I should award the goal or can you confirm if there was no offside. Communication and understanding of the on-field decision seems to have been the issue for the weekend's call.

Maybe because they want it to be like you describe? It's not a secret this sport had and has until now the bigger scandals of corruption, even at the top of the pyramid, compared to other sports. It's not only rugby which uses way better the video replay system, there's the pinnacle of nearly perfect use at NFL. What is baffling it's the fact these sports are more complex than football and have more physical battles and rules for penalties. 

There are so many ways to improve VAR use but for some reason they don't want to implement them. They don't even listen to the fans, they're on their own elitistic clouds destroying the game. 

Why they don't give the option to managers to challenge certain ref decisions during the game? For example each team can have 3-4 challenges per half for any decision on field. These challenges and the use of video replay must have also live audio communication so the fans will be able to listen. It happens in NBA, NFL, almost in every other sport. 

[turkish14]

32 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

But this still happens with VAR in place, so now you get to wait and STILL get an incorrect decision.

You make out that every decision is incorrect. Far more imo are now correct with VAR then are not 

[Les-TA-Jon]

12 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Why they don't give the option to managers to challenge certain ref decisions during the game? For example each team can have 3-4 challenges per half for any decision on field. These challenges and the use of video replay must have also live audio communication so the fans will be able to listen. It happens in NBA, NFL, almost in every other sport. 

Ensuring that every single match has at least 8 VAR reviews sounds less than ideal to me. 

 

Decisions should be left to the refs, it should be yet another thing managers/players should be responsible for. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

Reality is, it's very hard to unwind the clock - it's very unlikely we go back to zero VAR. It's here to stay, in one form or another. 

 

Obviously the current form has its problems. But also those other sports that do use VAR have been doing so for much longer. Given the increased level of subjectivities in football and the shorter lifespan of VAR implementation, is it any wonder they haven't got it right yet? 

 

Pre-VAR 'key match decisions' were correct 82% of the time. With VAR, that has risen to approx 94%. 

 

The key thing to determine is: does the benefit of that 12 percentage points increase, outweigh the costs? 

 

The only 'true' cost of VAR is the loss of fully spontaneous and joyous celebrations of goals, which to many, is the essence of the entire sport. 

 

But the problem here, is that there's a multitude of stakeholders with competing motivations and objectives, and I think that cost only really applies to one group... 

• The PGMOL wants that number as high as possible, with as much help as possible from technology, as allowed by IFAB, and without undue undermining of on-field officials. 
• The media must secretly (or not so secretly) love VAR. It drives clicks, views and controversy. It's another thing to analyse and adds to the sense of drama and theatre
• 'Non-legacy' fans, TV only viewers, tourists and neutrals probably also like it, or aren't strongly opposed to it, because for them the sport is an entertainment & media product to be consumed; it's not about specific clubs or players
• Clubs are seemingly largely in favour of VAR, as it on the whole gives them better/more correct decision and does remove the true 'howler' moments. With VAR there will never be another 'hand of god' or Henry palming it moment
• 'Legacy' fans - those in the ground or with a genuine attachment to their clubs wherever and however they watch generally do not like VAR, because of the 'cost' previously described

So I just don't see where the groundswell of influence will come from to make any significant changes to it. 

 

Personally my implementation would be:

• Goal line tech
• Automated offsides
• VAR checks for goals, possible red cards, penalty incidents - but with a very high threshold for intervention

[Fear Of The Fox]

15 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Ensuring that every single match has at least 8 VAR reviews sounds less than ideal to me. 

 

Decisions should be left to the refs, it should be yet another thing managers/players should be responsible for. 

My opinion is that video replay should be part of the sport but with more competent refs and people using the video replay. All other sports have it and it's working well the majority of times. I get it that some other sports are "turn based" but without video replay there's room for more corruption in football. 

[iancognito]

46 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Why they don't give the option to managers to challenge certain ref decisions during the game? For example each team can have 3-4 challenges per half for any decision on field. These challenges and the use of video replay must have also live audio communication so the fans will be able to listen. It happens in NBA, NFL, almost in every other sport. 

Because a lot of the decisions are still subjective. You can challenge something, the ref says no I'm keeping my decision and the respective bench(es) go wild with frustration. Liverpool would have challenged Jones's red card and the ref would have said no. Klopp would have exploded.

[Guest glasgowfox]

Klopp wants a replay due to VAR error in the spuds game...never heard him moaning about the wrong VAR decisions that have gone in his favour when playing Leicester or the handball against Big Wes when clearly not....he's a sour face twa...

[Sly]

Can we have a replay for all the crap decisions that have gone in Liverpools favour? 
 

Bloke is a clown. 

[Guest glasgowfox]

5 minutes ago, Sly said:

Can we have a replay for all the crap decisions that have gone in Liverpools favour? 
 

Bloke is a clown. 

Not sure if he would want a replay if it was the other way round 🤔 

[RonnieTodger]

“VAR isn’t the problem, it’s the people running it” is the worst argument in football.

 

Nobody doubts that cameras work, but if any decision is open to interpretation then stupid mistakes will be made.

 

If anybody enjoys football now more than pre pandemic, I’d be staggered. 

[Fear Of The Fox]

44 minutes ago, glasgowfox said:

Klopp wants a replay due to VAR error in the spuds game...never heard him moaning about the wrong VAR decisions that have gone in his favour when playing Leicester or the handball against Big Wes when clearly not....he's a sour face twa...

I don't like him or Liverpool but he said a replay would be a good solution, he acknowledged though it's unlikely to happen. Did our board or managers say anything when we were getting butchered by these corrupted clowns? No. 

[egg_fried_rice]

What a child - grow up. Klopp is such an objectional person.

 

Crap decisions have been around as long as the game itself.

 

VAR doesn't change that, so it needs binning off.

[Foxdiamond]

52 minutes ago, glasgowfox said:

Klopp wants a replay due to VAR error in the spuds game...never heard him moaning about the wrong VAR decisions that have gone in his favour when playing Leicester or the handball against Big Wes when clearly not....he's a sour face twa...

Rodgers was in charge at Liverpool in the Wes hit the face match

[Guest glasgowfox]

Just now, Foxdiamond said:

Rodgers was in charge at Liverpool in the Wes hit the face match

I still blame klopp 

[Fear Of The Fox]

5 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

“VAR isn’t the problem, it’s the people running it” is the worst argument in football.

 

Nobody doubts that cameras work, but if any decision is open to interpretation then stupid mistakes will be made.

 

If anybody enjoys football now more than pre pandemic, I’d be staggered. 

Let's bin VAR but don't come next season posting here and complaining when the refs butcher us against every single "Top 6" team. Yes the problem isn't the technology, it's the incompetence of people using plus some rules (handball) which they don't make clear to keep their corruption going on.