Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[Jon the Hat]

I think we will probably spent nothing in the summer unless we sell, and even then probably very little.  

[Motty]

52 minutes ago, reynard said:

This I think is the legal minefield we are about to enter. Also can the PL legally take into account figures for a season when a club is not part of their competition?

I've no idea what the rules are regarding this or whether or not legally binding rules to cover this situation. If not lawyers could have a field day.

They did with forest 2 seasons @Efl allowance and 1@Epl allowance.

[Product of 84]

40 minutes ago, reynard said:

This I think is the legal minefield we are about to enter. Also can the PL legally take into account figures for a season when a club is not part of their competition?

I've no idea what the rules are regarding this or whether or not legally binding rules to cover this situation. If not lawyers could have a field day.

I don't think the leagues know either! 

 

My additional arguments would be:

You can't deduct points from teams in  different seasons for the same accounting period. Forest and Everton have had their deductions. 

 

The damage the league has done to our finances by allowing us to be relegated by a point to a team in breach of the rules. 

 

Also our reputational damage needs to be taken into account. Check out what Leeds fans are saying about us. Although in a years time they may well come round if they to are stuck with players they can't shift and then falling foul of financial rules themselves. 

 

Whatever happens it's another blow to football in this country. Most people only see what's happening in simple terms which is Man City (winning titles), Everton, Forest (staying up) and now us with our promotion are profiting from cheating. 

 

My thinking is the Prem will ask for a sizable points deduction and the panel will whittle it down to a nominal 3 points due to a multitude of reasons as to why we have breeched. The crazy thing is we still don't know how much we have actually breeched by, if at all.

 

It's all grey!

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think we will probably spent nothing in the summer unless we sell, and even then probably very little.  

I'm not sure about that as we are likely losing Ndidi, Praet, Vesty, Nacho, Albrighton and maybe Vardy whos contracts expire. I think it's likely Akgun isn't signed either and remember we never replaced Casadei.

 

You can't lose 5/6/7 members of the squad and recruit no one.  Midfield will be very, very light if we don't recruit as we will literally have Winks / KDH / Braybrooke, and KDH is likely going anyway.

 

Midfield recruitment will be key.

[Bilo]

For me, the only effective punishment going forward is for domestic leagues to work with UEFA and ban clubs breaching the rules from European competition. Let's say Manchester City get a 6 point deduction for their breaches. Yes, it may cost them the league most seasons but they'll be nowhere near dropping out of the CL spots, let alone Europe altogether. They'll therefore still be able to qualify and achieve their true aim of securing CL revenue, compete in the CL and attract world-class players for whom they can pay whatever they like knowing that the worst that'll happen is that they may either lose a title or two or wait until the final day to win it.

 

Let's say that two year suspension had stood; Leicester would have qualified for the Champions League and we'd probably not be in breach of PSR today, Hartland may never have signed for them, the league would have become more competitive and the Saudis may never have seen Newcastle as a great vehicle for sportswashing. All the current regulations are doing is to make midtable and lower clubs think twice about signing the players they need to kick on and sell players to the richer clubs to keep in line with the regulations.

[FoxesWalk]

The punishments aren’t exactly a disincentive  to spending now are they? We are getting punished regardless by both EFL and PL, so we might as well spend money to try and offset the inevitable points deductions. 
 

It’s pretty likely we face a large points deduction this season and go straight back down, and then face an EFL promotion battle on a further points deduction and a transfer embargo. We should be looking to rebuild the squad with that in mind. 

[Chelmofox]

Just now, FoxesWalk said:

The punishments aren’t exactly a disincentive  to spending now are they? We are getting punished regardless by both EFL and PL, so we might as well spend money to try and offset the inevitable points deductions. 
 

It’s pretty likely we face a large points deduction this season and go straight back down, and then face an EFL promotion battle on a further points deduction and a transfer embargo. We should be looking to rebuild the squad with that in mind. 

My issue with this is the points reductions are clearly being reduced because clubs are cooperating. Presumably part of that cooperation is highlighting how you plan to get inside the rule thresholds. 

 

If you just say **** it and spend spend spend, presumably you are just going to get maximum deductions for each offence all the time. 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Bilo said:

What would the second one be for? If there was one, based on Everton, it would be lenient as one had already been applied in the season. 

 

Everton 'could' have got 20 points in total but ended up with 8.

The first one is for our relegation season, the second one will be for this season. 

[martyn]

36 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think we will probably spent nothing in the summer unless we sell, and even then probably very little.  

We will have to do some business. 

 

I'd expect we'll sell KDH as a minimum + a load of high earners leaving on frees with possibly 1 or 2 staying on reduced wages.

 

Then I imagine we look at loans, frees and young players with resale value in the £10-£15m range whose fees we can amortise into reasonable chunks over a contract.

Edited 27 April by martyn

[ClaphamFox]

17 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The first one is for our relegation season, the second one will be for this season. 

We may not breach for this season. And even if we do, it’s highly unlikely we’ll get a points deduction for it while we’re in the PL.

[kenny]

11 minutes ago, martyn said:

We will have to do some business. 

 

I'd expect we'll sell KDH as a minimum + a load of high earners leaving on frees with possibly 1 or 2 staying on reduced wages.

 

Then I imagine we look at loans, frees and young players with resale value in the £10-£15m range whose fees we can amortise into reasonable chunks over a contract.

Nelson, braybrooke and alves will be squad players next year. There is talk of loans but unless it's a good loan fee then we will need them to fill the squad.

 

I'm sure akgun and fatawu are already agreed due to the number of appearances. KDH is getting sold to satisfy PSR this year if the club think it's worth it.

[martyn]

1 minute ago, kenny said:

Nelson, braybrooke and alves will be squad players next year. There is talk of loans but unless it's a good loan fee then we will need them to fill the squad.

 

I'm sure akgun and fatawu are already agreed due to the number of appearances. KDH is getting sold to satisfy PSR this year if the club think it's worth it.

I can quite feasibly see Nelson starting for us at the start of next season.

Edited 27 April by martyn

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

If it's any more than 9, the system is even more broken than we thought. That almost encourages a club to go bust rather than try to break from their standing. 

 

No doubt the league will give us a big penalty and a panel will reduce by half. I'd anticipate a -6/-8

It won’t go more than 9. That would encourage clubs to effectively go into administration rather than comply to FFP. 
 

Equally it will be more than -3 because achieving one win over say 20th and/or the playoff winners isnt that much of punishment 

[Levi Port]

We are absolutely going to spend this summer. I’m not saying mega money, but we’ll spend.
 

The club would much rather risk FPP than risk going down again. That is backed up by our attitude this summer just gone. 
 

If you go through our high earners, next season we do not have many left. An absolute fraction compared to 22-23. Our wage to revenue will have come down considerably, allowing us room to spend. Those that came in last summer, will be on good money now, but not what the boys in 22/23 were on. 
 

Guillem Balagué interestingly mentioned on the BSLB podcast that Burnley stayed loyal to a lot of the players that got them promoted and that’s what they got wrong. He said that Leicester will not do that.
 

I expect high player turnover again, and another busy window like last summer.  

 

[CosbehFox]

32 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The first one is for our relegation season, the second one will be for this season. 

Second one would surely have the same limitations as this season - ie. rules broke in the EFL rather than the PL? 

Edited 27 April by CosbehFox

[foxgas]

1 hour ago, Motty said:

They did with forest 2 seasons @Efl allowance and 1@Epl allowance.

I think Forest put their hands up to it, hoping for a lesser points reduction. I think they may be regretting it now. The premier league and EFL seems to be making it up on the hoof, lawyers would have a field day.

[foxgas]

1 hour ago, Product of 84 said:

I don't think the leagues know either! 

 

My additional arguments would be:

You can't deduct points from teams in  different seasons for the same accounting period. Forest and Everton have had their deductions. 

 

The damage the league has done to our finances by allowing us to be relegated by a point to a team in breach of the rules. 

 

Also our reputational damage needs to be taken into account. Check out what Leeds fans are saying about us. Although in a years time they may well come round if they to are stuck with players they can't shift and then falling foul of financial rules themselves. 

 

Whatever happens it's another blow to football in this country. Most people only see what's happening in simple terms which is Man City (winning titles), Everton, Forest (staying up) and now us with our promotion are profiting from cheating. 

 

My thinking is the Prem will ask for a sizable points deduction and the panel will whittle it down to a nominal 3 points due to a multitude of reasons as to why we have breeched. The crazy thing is we still don't know how much we have actually breeched by, if at all.

 

It's all grey!

My mitigation would be that if Everton had lost points last season we would have stayed in the premier league and had our deductions, if applicable, this season. 

[Corky]

We should try and comply with this season's requirements. We cannot keep having these things hanging over. Lessons have to be learnt.

[urban.spaceman]

On 08/04/2024 at 16:42, urban.spaceman said:

Further to this.

 

An excerpt from today's report:

 

 

The Premier League has already been caught acting outside of their own jurisdiction and rules, as have the EFL, in their pursuit of us.

 

I have no faith in their ability to enact their own rules fairly.

Found it. 
 

here’s the quote from the Everton report early April, I think it was paragraph 256:

 

In this case, we have read and considered with care the parties’ submissions in this respect, set out above at paragraph 159 above and not repeated here. In our view, many if not most of the criticisms levelled against the Club in this respect by the PL are unwarranted, overstated, or both. In our view, the Club has indeed cooperated with the PL in the presentation of these proceedings according to the Standard Directions (to which the Club consented from the outset) albeit in a manner that protected (quite properly) the interests of the Club.

 

Add that to the two judgements that say they've explicitly tried to break their own rules. 
 

they have consistently acted in bad faith. 

[ClaphamFox]

8 minutes ago, Corky said:

We should try and comply with this season's requirements. We cannot keep having these things hanging over. Lessons have to be learnt.

That’s certainly one way of looking at it - and it may be what the club decides to do. But it’s also possible that the club will weigh up the likely cost (in terms of player departures) of complying this season against the likely cost (in terms of punishment) if we breach again, and decide that flogging our best assets for less than they’re worth will hurt us more than breaching. 
 

I have no idea which choice we’ll make, but I think either are possible.

Edited 27 April by ClaphamFox

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

We may not breach for this season. And even if we do, it’s highly unlikely we’ll get a points deduction for it while we’re in the PL.

It’s the total over the three years that counts, doesn’t matter what league you are in. We submitted the finances already that showed we were likely to break it this season. Hence the league going for us long before our accounts come out, they don’t wait for that 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Second one would surely have the same limitations as this season - ie. rules broke in the EFL rather than the PL? 

It was a bit more complicated than that.

Edited 27 April by Babylon

[coolhandfox]

People need to put this to bed for a while and enjoy the moment.

 

It's very complicated and probably not going to be sorted before we KO the PL season as we are under the old rules not the new fast track.

 

We have just completed the first leg of a massive rebuild.

 

When we do are summer business we need to remember its not how much you spend but how you spend it.

[FoxOnWheels]

Absolute scenes if we find a loophole and they can’t touch us

[ClaphamFox]

21 minutes ago, Babylon said:

It’s the total over the three years that counts, doesn’t matter what league you are in. We submitted the finances already that showed we were likely to break it this season. Hence the league going for us long before our accounts come out, they don’t wait for that 

I think it does matter. Certainly, the view among the majority of journalists reporting on this seems to be that if we breach for 2021-24 too, our punishment for this second breach will be either a fine imposed while we’re in the PL or a suspended points penalty to be enacted if/when we get relegated again. 

Edited 27 April by ClaphamFox