Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[UniFox21]

1 hour ago, Bilo said:

Reading carefully, he says that the 'initial proposed penalty could be double figures.'

 

The IPP for Forest was 8 points and was whittled down to 4, with similar negotiations over Everton once the independent panel looked at it. Also, as has already been said, there's only a 9 point deduction in place for administration/insolvency, so that would likely be seen as disproportionate. 

If it's any more than 9, the system is even more broken than we thought. That almost encourages a club to go bust rather than try to break from their standing. 

 

No doubt the league will give us a big penalty and a panel will reduce by half. I'd anticipate a -6/-8

[reynard]

2 minutes ago, Ricey said:

Logically it should be -6, regardless of what the Premier League propose. Their proposals so far have been laughable.

 

Question is, if we do breach for this season, can the EFL touch us? Previously clubs like ourselves and Fulham have broken FFP en route to promotion and agreed a settlement with the EFL.

This I think is the legal minefield we are about to enter. Also can the PL legally take into account figures for a season when a club is not part of their competition?

I've no idea what the rules are regarding this or whether or not legally binding rules to cover this situation. If not lawyers could have a field day.

[Nolucklcfc]

There’s a lot of hearings between now and the final figure to go that’s for sure 

[Ricey]

Just now, reynard said:

This I think is the legal minefield we are about to enter. Also can the PL legally take into account figures for a season when a club is not part of their competition?

I've no idea what the rules are regarding this or whether or not legally binding rules to cover this situation. If not lawyers could have a field day.

They have taken into account Forest’s EFL seasons as part of the three year period, so they can. I just don’t think they can issue points deductions for breaches that occurred in different leagues.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

9 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

We could do with 'Mr. Loop Hole' type lawyer who somehow demonstrates that Rudkin and Rodgers were at fault.

Rudkin gets a hefty fine and by some bizarre legal quirk, Celtic get the points deduction.

Exactly the type we need... 

[reynard]

Just now, Ricey said:

They have taken into account Forest’s EFL seasons as part of the three year period, so they can. I just don’t think they can issue points deductions for breaches that occurred in different leagues.

This is the key point really. Has there been a club in our exact position before or are we about to set a precedent?

[FOXSE]

1 minute ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Exactly the type we need... 

I think we need a criminal, Lawyer!

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

Need him I reckon. 

[Twitcher]

17 minutes ago, Ricey said:

Logically it should be -6, regardless of what the Premier League propose. Their proposals so far have been laughable.

 

Question is, if we do breach for this season, can the EFL touch us? Previously clubs like ourselves and Fulham have broken FFP en route to promotion and agreed a settlement with the EFL.

Do you mean could we still be deducted points for this season, i.e. we might not be up yet?

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

If it's any more than 9, the system is even more broken than we thought. That almost encourages a club to go bust rather than try to break from their standing. 

 

No doubt the league will give us a big penalty and a panel will reduce by half. I'd anticipate a -6/-8

Under its own rules, the maximum penalty the Premier League can seek to impose is a 12-point deduction - and that’s for the worst breaches. That’s what they sought for Everton. The panel initially imposed 10 on Everton then reduced it to six after admitting it had erred in its original decision. 
 

We’ll likely end up with a four or six point deduction at the beginning of next season.
 

 

[ClaphamFox]

3 minutes ago, Twitcher said:

Do you mean could we still be deducted points for this season, i.e. we might not be up yet?

No - there is no way this can happen.

[Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, Twitcher said:

Do you mean could we still be deducted points for this season, i.e. we might not be up yet?

That can't happen, but if we come straight back down I don't see why they can't retrospectively impose any points deductions like the premier league are going to do

[foxgas]

I wonder if there is any other business in the country where an owner can be penalised for investing their own money . It was like turkey's voting for Christmas. Needs testing in the courts, especially as it only seems to apply to smaller clubs.

 

[Bilo]

22 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

If it's any more than 9, the system is even more broken than we thought. That almost encourages a club to go bust rather than try to break from their standing. 

 

No doubt the league will give us a big penalty and a panel will reduce by half. I'd anticipate a -6/-8

I mean, this is it. It's 9 points for insolvency or administration, meaning that the club wouldn't even be in a position to pay its debts. Given that King Power has converted debts into equity, we are essentially not even in debt. Moreover, the club has made public statements of the continuing financial commitment of King Power that would absolutely be replicated at hearing stage.

 

Based on that and the precedents of Everton and Forest, we won't get anything like a 9 point deduction, let alone double figures. 

[Bilo]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

That can't happen, but if we come straight back down I don't see why they can't retrospectively impose any points deductions like the premier league are going to do

Sheffield United are going straight down to a 2 point deduction, so it's possible.

[The Bear]

It'll be 4. Probably 6 initially then 4 after appeal. 

[Bilo]

8 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Under its own rules, the maximum penalty the Premier League can seek to impose is a 12-point deduction - and that’s for the worst breaches. That’s what they sought for Everton. The panel initially imposed 10 on Everton then reduced it to six after admitting it had erred in its original decision. 
 

We’ll likely end up with a four or six point deduction at the beginning of next season.
 

 

I think anything less than six is survivable. We'll be coming up with two teams who are probably going to be weaker and then there's at least one of Brentford, Forest and Luton who will most likely struggle again.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

If the most you can get is 9 points over a period of time then what exactly is stopping Newcastle spending 5 billion and just taking the hit?

[kyleolly]

2 minutes ago, Bilo said:

I think anything less than six is survivable. We'll be coming up with two teams who are probably going to be weaker and then there's at least one of Brentford, Forest and Luton who will most likely struggle again.

There’s a lot of dross in the premier league it’s likely a team will survive this season on 30 points as long as we can bring a few new players in we’ll be fine.

[Bilo]

2 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

If the most you can get is 9 points over a period of time then what exactly is stopping Newcastle spending 5 billion and just taking the hit?

The same that's stopped Manchester City from doing the same thing over 15 years and racking up 115 charges, and it rhymes with Duck Ball.

 

That's why the rules don't work and need to be scrapped.

[FoxFossil]

First team with a points deduction to go on and win the league! ( still a bit drunk from last night)

[coolhandfox]

The Everton and Forest case have set the bar.

 

Everton 10 points was deemed disproportionate.

 

I expect we get 8 or 6 and then appeal them down to 6 or 4.

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, foxgas said:

I wonder if there is any other business in the country where an owner can be penalised for investing their own money . It was like turkey's voting for Christmas. Needs testing in the courts, especially as it only seems to apply to smaller clubs.

The rational is sound. If the owners are are reckless then they can asset strip the clubs and then literally disappear leaving the clubs and fans in the lurch. I think the goal was trying to achieve a point where even if that happened the clubs would be able to survice.

 

The problem is that PL ownership is on another level and there are plenty of owners who are happy to finance and support debt in todays climate. One of the issues is its not usually investment that comes in, but instead the owning businesses are able to provide the collateral for huge loans and to pay of interest on those loans.

 

The end result is that FFP/PSR is creating a bigger problem that it was trying to solve. Its putting clubs in more financial risk / danger if they don't meet certain revenues, so just missing out on Europe could be a catastrophe. If this happens, its very hard just to change the financial position of the oil tanker as you have players on 3/4/5 year contracts.

 

Football clubs are different to normal business. If a company falls massively short of revenue targets, they can lay off 30-40% of their staff and reduce costs dramatically. The vast majority of a football clubs costs are in players wages, and these are locked into contracts and P/L is all based around the timeframe of those contracts.

 

 

[jayfox26]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

This season? Who knows they seem to be making it up.

They can't do us for this season as we aren't in the Premier league. If we breach this season then we Will likely get a points deduction if/when we go back to the championship 

[jayfox26]

17 minutes ago, Bilo said:

I think anything less than six is survivable. We'll be coming up with two teams who are probably going to be weaker and then there's at least one of Brentford, Forest and Luton who will most likely struggle again.

Everton are trash as well and they could end up not being able to spend much unless they can get some money for Branthwaite and Onana.