Go on, admit you were wrong

[ealingfox]

BTW the shortcomings of Maresca and Enzoball becoming increasingly exposed over time doesn't automatically mean the Gerritforward merchants were right all along.

 

As with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Up to the end of January I felt he could do little or no wrong, we had obviously had mini blips and off days but overall we were flying, we were scoring goals and on the whole looked to be getting better and stronger each and every game. 
 

Since the Middlesbrough defeat at home the drop off in performances, results and most concerning the mentality has been unbelieveable. 
 

The football has become slow and predictable and if we go a goal down it’s very rare we show any signs or capability of recovering. We rarely throw the kitchen sink at teams and it does feel like our attacking intent is too regimented and is therefore stifling our creativity.

 

His stubborness with tactics, selections and use or lack of use of subs and some squad members is causing concern and I have to say he has gone from being a breath of fresh air to becoming a clone of Rodgers, the style of football and use of squad is now very reminiscent to Brendan and dare I say the weak mentality is also very similar. 
 

I really hope he can turn it around and maybe add some flexibility but I fear he will die on the hill for his footballing principles. However for what it’s worth, whichever way the season concludes I think he will leave. 

[grobyfox1990]

Wrong.

Thought we'd be champions by now, the standard in this league is shockingly, disgustingly appalling. It's low grad tosh played by weak journeymen. Teams have very little physical and athletic ability, and no football skills. We are the clear best team in this league based on all factors.

Whilst all that is right, I did not counter on us not being arsed to go up, so am completely wrong.

Still think we will be top two but what has happened in recent weeks is unacceptable. 

[MalletFox]

I think it’s still a little early to judge tbh… if Enzo gets us promoted then it’s mission accomplished, and with the huge turnover in players, embedding a completely new style, picking up the morale of the squad (which was on the floor), then he’s done pretty well!

 

The football itself is pretty turgid at times, but in the earlier part of the season you could see what we were trying and it was working more often than not. It does feel like we’re stuck in a bit of a rut now though, confidence and form is varying from player to player, the fluidity and pace of the play has now seemingly slowed (possibly as teams have now figured out our patterns of play), and I should think a good portion attributed to a bit of pressure getting to the team and management.

 

Last night (& QPR at home) were really bad ones, but in the main it’s missed chances that have cost us where we haven’t won recently, especially Bristol City (A) Vards could have scored a hatrick quite comfortably and Boro (H) we had 4 x great chances (Daka, Vards & Vesty x 2).

 

Enzo needs to recognise when things are stale in the game (not to be misinterpreted for being patient), and when changes are needed. He’s still learning himself, so he will have errors in judgement himself.

[kingcarr21]

10 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I know one of them  

[The Quick Brown Fox]

My kids used to enjoy going to the football, now not so much. Results are one thing, entertainment is another. To get the young ones interested and involved you need excitement. And Enzo ball is anything but exciting. 

[filbertway]

6 minutes ago, Trev3939 said:

I still hold the view that his football will work, I know it’s not fully yet. If we had won yesterday no one would have been suggesting this, so so reactionary 

This is true, majority of people would have ignored the awful performance, much like has happened when we have snatched a late goal on many occasions this season.

[foxestalkisfullofidiots]

I’m not defending the football, it is boring, he has been very unlucky in the sense both Leeds and Ipswich are not letting up, the points we have now would of been good enough for automatic promotion most seasons, it’s been a freak season in that sense. He lets himself down with his stubborn tactics and team selection, if he had already had 3 or 4 transfer windows I get sticking with it because you have gone out to get the players to fit into that system but when you inherit a team you’ve got to be able to compromise and adapt, the reality is the championship is boring most of the time and teams just know not to press us, he got out mastered by Neil Harris, there is a fine line between being stubborn and sticking to your beliefs.

Edited 10 April by foxestalkisfullofidiots

[grobyfox1990]

3 minutes ago, MalletFox said:

I think it’s still a little early to judge tbh… if Enzo gets us promoted then it’s mission accomplished, and with the huge turnover in players, embedding a completely new style, picking up the morale of the squad (which was on the floor), then he’s done pretty well!

 

The football itself is pretty turgid at times, but in the earlier part of the season you could see what we were trying and it was working more often than not. It does feel like we’re stuck in a bit of a rut now though, confidence and form is varying from player to player, the fluidity and pace of the play has now seemingly slowed (possibly as teams have now figured out our patterns of play), and I should think a good portion attributed to a bit of pressure getting to the team and management.

 

Last night (& QPR at home) were really bad ones, but in the main it’s missed chances that have cost us where we haven’t won recently, especially Bristol City (A) Vards could have scored a hatrick quite comfortably and Boro (H) we had 4 x great chances (Daka, Vards & Vesty x 2).

 

Enzo needs to recognise when things are stale in the game (not to be misinterpreted for being patient), and when changes are needed. He’s still learning himself, so he will have errors in judgement himself.

Still think we will go up but even if we do, absolutely should be judging the whole playing staff. We were 20 odd points clear at the start of year? The standard of football in this league is dreadful, it's basically amateur. We are surrounded by woefully inadequate teams. We should be confirmed as promoted by now

[Foxy DK]

33 minutes ago, Otis said:

Hated this style of play from day one.

 

I too wonder if those who called others too thick to appreciate Enzoball still feel the same way.

The assignment from OP was to admit you were wrong about something, not to “admit” you were right 😂

[Sir Shep]

I thought it was a decent appointment going for someone new and fresh. Results went our way despite performances that would sometimes be outstanding but mostly frustrating to watch. Then I started to realise that he only had one way of playing and seemed to be winging it. I see a positive result now as us being lucky rather than deserving. He’s a coach not a manager. 

[SuperMike]

I also notice that the best moment from the last dozen games or so (winner vvs Brum) was absolutely NOT enzo ball: a super cross from a winger on the wing (not inverted, converted or contorted) to the far post, where it was met by a brilliant header (yes, header!!!), resulting in a goal (yes - an actual goal!).

Oh, the good old days of proper footy!!

[RoboFox]

1 minute ago, Foxy DK said:

The assignment from OP was to admit you were wrong about something, not to “admit” you were right 😂

There's always people who want to turn this discussion into a pissing contest. 

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, Claudio Fannieri said:

Up to the end of January I felt he could do little or no wrong, we had obviously had mini blips and off days but overall we were flying, we were scoring goals and on the whole looked to be getting better and stronger each and every game. 
 

Since the Middlesbrough defeat at home the drop off in performances, results and most concerning the mentality has been unbelieveable. 
 

The football has become slow and predictable and if we go a goal down it’s very rare we show any signs or capability of recovering. We rarely throw the kitchen sink at teams and it does feel like our attacking intent is too regimented and is therefore stifling our creativity.

 

His stubborness with tactics, selections and use or lack of use of subs and some squad members is causing concern and I have to say he has gone from being a breath of fresh air to becoming a clone of Rodgers, the style of football and use of squad is now very reminiscent to Brendan and dare I say the weak mentality is also very similar. 
 

I really hope he can turn it around and maybe add some flexibility but I fear he will die on the hill for his footballing principles. However for what it’s worth, whichever way the season concludes I think he will leave. 

The frustrating thing is that Maresca very likely does have the brains to be a very good coach if he wants to be. He is by all accounts a very smart guy who spends a great deal of his spare time studying tactics and playing styles, etc. His major flaw is that he is so ideologically committed to his preferred way of playing that he refuses to change things when it is obvious to literally everybody that change is required. His unwavering adherence to one way of playing makes it easy for our opponents to make it very difficult for us, as Millwall did last night. It's so hard to fathom - his mentor Guardiola also has a preferred way of playing, but if things aren't going as planned he will change things. Why is Enzo so inflexible? He must surely know that the best coaches adapt when they need to - why can't he?

[Pliskin]

I’ve always had some quiet reservations about him, but I must admit I did think he was initially doing an amazing job by turning what was a sour situation into a positive one. 
 

However, I think it’s now clear that his lack of experience, and ridiculous need to stick to his philosophy is going to undo us. 
 

Enzo needed a harsh lesson to learn about himself as a manager, but we can’t afford it to be us…. It’s now looking like another horrendous mistake by the owners, that is likely to land us in further turmoil. 
 

We all turned our noses up at Scott Parker, but the reality is, he probably would have got us up. 

Edited 10 April by Pliskin

[kingcarr21]

Its bizarre to think we have 5 games left, we sit top of the league on 88 points, we have won more games than anyone else in the division and yet we are largely calling for Enzo to be put to pasture. 

 

I do agree with alot of what people are saying, the style of football is incredibly boring and equally frustrating. So far in 2024 we haven't hit the numbers we were producing earlier in the season, which then means people start to question the style and approach.

 

Im now just waiting for the season to end and hopefully that is with promotion, however it comes.

 

If we are a prem team again i feel like Enzoball would be our best chance of survival, i just hope he expands on what he is doing, he is learning and hopefully evolving. Its like at the moment he would rather choose to stick to his style and lose a game over doing something different and winning it.

 

I am well and truly on the fence with him. I just dont know anymore  

[Col city fan]

There’s an awful lot of this ‘you were right and I was wrong’ on here. I’m guilty of this myself though I’ve tried to tone it down somewhat.

The reality is that no-one was wrong about Enzo. He had us playing sublimely. Yes it was methodical (boring) at times but there were also games where we absolutely coasted.

Only the most astute of us would have predicted what was to come. I guess it’s well-versed now, but other teams have ‘found us out’ and know how to play against us.

So NOW we look at Enzo and think he’s a one-trick pony.

Times change, teams change, squads change. No-one was wrong to think Enzo knew what he was doing. Before Christmas, he DID know and we were all talking about record points tally’s in the Championship. Now we think he doesn’t know what he’s doing because we aren’t adapting particularly to the fact that the opposition has adapted to us.

Tis football.. I’m more worried about what’s going on at club level. Cos a lot of it looks pretty bleak to me 

[Tommy G]

11 minutes ago, kingcarr21 said:

I know one of them  

Green puffer jacket appears to either own the paintbrush or the bedsheet 

[Trev3939]

8 minutes ago, filbertway said:

This is true, majority of people would have ignored the awful performance, much like has happened when we have snatched a late goal on many occasions this season.

I’m not saying performances are how they should be, but Enzo is an inexperienced coach and his tactical vision is brilliant. If we hold out and allow him to gain that experience I still believe it could become something special 

[Livid]

It feels very strange to be sitting top of the table and feeling so frustrated with a manager, but i'm going to find this very therapeutic.

 

I never went totally  overboard on him. it was wait and see for me He was fresh and ambitious but with absolutely no experience at this level and had been in a position coaching players in a totally different realm of the universe to anything we have.

 

I've not enjoyed the style of football, It's been attritional and we rode our luck at times. I've looked back over the results this season and despite the good result here and there (against 10 men at Southampton, late goals at Blackburn) I'm struggling to say I actually enjoyed the game. The result yes, but not the performance. We were winning and I was accepting that. 

 

There have been flashes of promise but it was immediately put back in the box, Plymouth at home being the prime example three quick goals and then nothing. Too often we got one or two goals up and then we just sit back for the next 30 minutes and do absolutely nothing by way of seeking to actually score another goal and run up a comprehensive score. I had no issue with people walking out early 10 minutes early as so often the team had no intention of doing anything and there was little point in being there other than to show your appreciation for the lads .

 

It's looking like every player has regressed somewhat under him this season, Fatawa, Mavididi and Yunus look a imitation of the player's they were at the start of the season.

 

I hope we stumble over the line, for the clubs finances alone,  but the cracks that have been papered over all season are now beginning to show.

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

Being so easily polarised is not healthy, but I am with @kingcarr21 on this. If I am wrong so be it, but I could not give a toss about that (What am I, 12?)

 

Its the wellbeing of the club and its progressions I am most interested in, so others who have yet not seen their 15/16 can.

 

[VG Fox]

26 minutes ago, Tielemans63 said:

Happy to admit I was wrong. I was so impressed at first, but it's become pretty apparent that, while Plan A is pretty solid, there is no Plan B. Games feel like they've gone once we go behind which is horrible. We had more than half an hour left when we conceded yesterday, but the game already felt like it had gone. 

 

There's a big difference between leading the best U21 team in the country to a PL2 title and managing in a proper league. Other managers have had Enzo sussed since around December time and he doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

This...sussed by december by the majority of oppo managers .absolutely no plan b, c, d,  utterly turgid to watch, early doors many thought when we finally click into 5th gear we would smash teams, well that has never happened(maybe stoke away was as close as we got), we have barely got out of 3rd gear..I am so disappointed I actually like Enzo, I wanted him to do well, but I can't stand tip tap football, probably cos I'm an old git. I fear for the club that I have supported for 50yrs. 

[bmt]

5 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

The frustrating thing is that Maresca very likely does have the brains to be a very good coach if he wants to be. He is by all accounts a very smart guy who spends a great deal of his spare time studying tactics and playing styles, etc. His major flaw is that he is so ideologically committed to his preferred way of playing that he refuses to change things when it is obvious to literally everybody that change is required. His unwavering adherence to one way of playing makes it easy for our opponents to make it very difficult for us, as Millwall did last night. It's so hard to fathom - his mentor Guardiola also has a preferred way of playing, but if things aren't going as planned he will change things. Why is Enzo so inflexible? He must surely know that the best coaches adapt when they need to - why can't he?

I agree. Think he committed so much time to teaching the players to play this way it is hard to admit it isn't ALWAYS the way to play, and give the players other instructions.

 

If he has another summer I think we will see more variation in how we play. But if we don't go up that realistically isn't good enough.

[foxile5]

Where's the clown that said the football was 'genuinely breathtaking' in response to the suggestion that it was one dimensional and need a plan B in spite of winning.

 

It was October after the Blackburn game.

[SixtiesFox]

I was wearing the 'anything is better than Rodgers' blue tinted specs for the first part of the season. And, when we were coasting with a 17 point gap by Christmas, it was hard to criticise despite having serious reservations about most performances, (with a few exceptions - Soton away), being deadly dull. In the second half of the season the rigidity of Enzo's system has been our downfall. Other teams have adapted and our aura of invincibilty has evaporated. To gain promotion from the Championship you have to adapt and we haven't. In my opinion this is partly down to Enzo's ego but also his lack of experience as a coach. It is hard not to draw the conclusion that with the most talented squad in the division, failure to gain promotion would be an underachievement of seizmic proportions and Enzo will have been the main cause. Anyone still drinking the Enzo cool aid after the last 10 games are likely those who supported Rodgers' failures to finish 5th and our shocking relegation until it was too late. 

Edited 10 April by SixtiesFox