Go on, admit you were wrong

[Big Blue Maff]

29 minutes ago, LFEFox23 said:

I’m so torn when it comes to Enzo.

 

His style of football, No plan B and stubbornness rage me at times but then I sit back and question myself because we’re top of the league!? He’s doing what we all asked for at the start of the season!

IF we get promoted I believe we will yo-yo up & down for a few seasons, there’s so much uncertainty right now surrounding everything about our club , player’s futures , deduction of points next season , money to spend etc and to top it all off is Enzo  going to be manager next season. He definitely cannot play his style if we get promoted so why play it now ? I’m still angry from last season’s relegation & this past 3 months watching is torture, fuming last night. I’ve only been 2 games this season because I’m pissed off & we’ve lost both games ( Leeds / Middlesboro) 

Do we stick with him ? I’m on the fence, who ever we have the next 12 months at Leicester city ain’t gonna be easy ( when is it ever ) 

[weller54]

I must admit when he first arrived it looked kind of aging.

But as the months have passed its better but think he's slightly overdone it.

A few grey strands would have made it more natural looking.

Really needed a plan B..

eard

[StanSP]

Would love it if he at least attempted to try something different. 

 

Even Rodgers wasn't this stubborn. Part of being a good manager (at the very least) is to be adaptable but still maintain any core principles. Right now he's just making us suffer to prevent his own pride diminishing. 

 

You can still play possession based football but mix it up a bit either in the game or from game to game. We're just doing the same thing over and over again now expecting a different result but not getting them. And that's what leads to results like last night. It was clear from parts of the first half and definitely soon after second half started that our tactic was being nullified and just wasn't working. He made the triple change eventually but he needed to be bolder. 

 

I fear Maresca is so risk-averse he won't ever gamble on something mildly different. For a side that had such a good defensive record for majority of the season, we've now conceded 9 in 11 games. Even if he wanted to stick with the formation, there's a time to perhaps go back to basics and keep things simple, for example don't allow your CBs to go bombing forward and leave a big gaping hole in a defence which isn't blessed with pace. Don't be so perfectionist and hope for the exquisite goal after X amount of passes - develop a more 'shoot on sight' policy. We have the players that are capable, but we don't use them. At least mix it up a bit and make things less predicable for the opposition. 

 

[adejo92]

Called it 5 games in when we lost to Hull.

 

I also got 15  'laughing emoji's'  in January from people trying to belittle me when I dared suggest a lot of managers would have us where Enzo had us.

 

Let's not pretend everyone has suddenly had a change of opinion. Plenty called out their concerns early on but were heckled, ganged up on and made to feel like idiots.

 

Was easier for some to just not speak out, which, ironically,  a lot of those who were doing the belittling are now choosing to do.

Edited 10 April by adejo92

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

Called it 5 games in when we lost to Hull.

But we went on a good run after that. 14 out of 15 games won? So something was working back then...

[adejo92]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

But we went on a good run after that. 14 out of 15 games won? So something was working back then...

We were, but the football was still sh1t.

 

Champagne football with lemonade players.

 

All the wins prior to Hull were narrow wins to sh1t teams who, now nearing the end of the season, are mostly near the foot of the table.

 

I don't think our football has got any better or worse, teams just know how to play us.

Edited 10 April by adejo92

[Beachyboy]

As others have said we can't play against the low block, Plymouth will play that way Whittaker is 3rd top scorer in the league, if we don't approach this game differently having played this exact game against Birmingham and Millwall within the last week, it's beyond stubborn, its stupid. i'd go

 

                                       Mads

 

Albrighton        Coady Souttar Vestegaard     Justin

 

                           Praet     Winks

 

                                 KDH

 

                        Daka       Nacho

 

                      

[Gevans_97]

Don't really think there's a 'right' or 'wrong'.
 

There are plenty of positives the club have experienced since Enzo came in. He managed to convince players with one foot out of the door to stay, started the season the most successfully of any championship manager in 100+ years, and still, with the frustrations of the last couple of months, has us in the driving seat with 5 games to go. It's still completely in our hands. If we win the league, will people be 'right' about him? 
 

plenty of disappointing factors with him too. Playing style, it seems, is the main one. We are often way too slow, one dimensional and don't play with purpose. Some think he's arrogant. If we don't go up, will people be 'wrong' about him? 
 

We've all got our frustrations at the moment, and rightly so, but I'm going to hold judgement until the end of the season. And I don't think anyone is in a position to 'admit they were right or wrong'. Think these conversations are fairly pointless at the moment and confuse the issue.
 

For now, just try and back the lads. The next 5 games are massive for the future of the club and we need to be together.
 

 

[Guest]

I was very wrong because we're doing quite a lot better than I thought we would

[Noahfence]

Just now, adejo92 said:

We were, but the football was still sh1t.

 

Champagne football with lemonade players.

 

I don't think our football has got any better or worse, teams just know how to play us.

I remember thinking this at the time. We were winning but just got zero enjoyment out of the games.

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, adejo92 said:

We were, but the football was still sh1t.

 

Champagne football with lemonade players.

 

I don't think our football has got any better or worse, teams just know how to play us.

Agree with the last point. We've been sussed out for ages which should have been the time to change things. 

 

As for shit football, it wasn't always the case. We played some really good dynamic football that led to goals and chances. We just see much less of it because of the point you make about being sussed out. 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

But we went on a good run after that. 14 out of 15 games won? So something was working back then...

Everyone was happy then...the players....the fans due to the change of manager after the last 2 years of Brendan.

Now the players look frustrated and nervous. Enzo doesn't look as energetic on the touchline as he was last year 🤔

[Fear Of The Fox]

His behaviour is very suspicious, I'm struggling to find any other word to describe it. Even in the well known football management videogame if something isn't working "managers" from age 7 to 80yrs old make changes, they have a plan B or just trying on the fly a plan B, C, D or Z.

I know the above example is excessive but what on earth is Enzo doing? He couldn't see in HT against Millwall that nothing was going by his plan for 45mins? Did he expect everything to change magically at the 46min onwards? This is a very strange behaviour/approach from a professional. 

[don_danbury]

i called it first 10 mins against cov on the first game. 

[Guppys Love Child]

12 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

We were, but the football was still sh1t.

 

Champagne football with lemonade players.

 

All the wins prior to Hull were narrow wins to sh1t teams who, now nearing the end of the season, are mostly near the foot of the table.

 

I don't think our football has got any better or worse, teams just know how to play us.

I agree, and posted something similar on several occasions a while back, but was basically told I was talking 'BS' and given multiple excuses about tired players, missing / injured players,  coming up against " THE LOW BLOCK", Blah blah.

All things that any half decent manager would try to improvise, adapt, and  attempt to overcome.

 

Some EnzoBall lovers have posted, in their opinions, that the No 8's and some other players in other positions are lacking the skillset and talent for EnzoBall to truly work and be effective during the matches.

Quite possibly that is true, (or not)  so, if fans have identified this possible flaw,

also Identity and accept the fact Enzo, stop doing it, and look for an alternative .

 

By some posters own admissions / observations, that we don't physically have the "required" players available at this point in time, or any realistic ability to obtain them, so common sense dictates if you don't have the tools or the tools are substandard to perform EnzoBall to is most effectiveness. Again Stop doing it, it's counterproductive, and instead of trying to shoehorn EnzoBall on the team "because this is how we play now"  and 'woe betied anyone questioning it' or I'll chuck my toys out of the pram,  instead show some flexibility and look for options to utilise the players we actually do have access to analyse their different and individual strengths and get the best out of them,  whilst also trying to minimise the collective weakness' as well..... just an idea Enzo

[Claudio Fannieri]

17 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Up to the end of January I felt he could do little or no wrong, we had obviously had mini blips and off days but overall we were flying, we were scoring goals and on the whole looked to be getting better and stronger each and every game. 
 

Since the Middlesbrough defeat at home the drop off in performances, results and most concerning the mentality has been unbelieveable. 
 

The football has become slow and predictable and if we go a goal down it’s very rare we show any signs or capability of recovering. We rarely throw the kitchen sink at teams and it does feel like our attacking intent is too regimented and is therefore stifling our creativity.

 

His stubborness with tactics, selections and use or lack of use of subs and some squad members is causing concern and I have to say he has gone from being a breath of fresh air to becoming a clone of Rodgers, the style of football and use of squad is now very reminiscent to Brendan and dare I say the weak mentality is also very similar. 
 

I really hope he can turn it around and maybe add some flexibility but I fear he will die on the hill for his footballing principles. However for what it’s worth, whichever way the season concludes I think he will leave. 

Been thinking a lot more about all of this, and whilst all my above points stand, I think there is further context to add to this discussion. 
 

When Enzo joined in June there was still 2/3 months of the transfer window left and I am fairly sure the club at the time were confidently telling Enzo that players such as  Ward, Iversen, Souttar, Wilf, Praet, Iheanacho and Daka etc  would be moved on and create further opportunities and budget to bring in players that fitted the philosophy and style of play the club and Enzo wanted to introduce. 
 

Fast forward to now and with the exception of Iversen who ended up joining Stoke on loan in January, the rest are still here. 
 

So in the summer Enzo and his team crack on coaching the style they want to play fully expecting the majority of the above to leave and for new players to come in, better suited to play the required roles, however risk never materialised and Enzo ends up having to utilise players who are not necessarily fit for purpose. 
 

Of course he should adapt but at the same time he can’t just bin off the whole summer’s work, I think what we saw was a genuine lift at the beginning, but now the technical limitations of some has meant they have now reached their peak and as a result performances and results have levelled off and their limitations prevent them kicking on again. As an example in this type of system in an ideal world would you really want Ndidi as an attacking midfielder, no you wouldn’t but he has had to play square pegs in round holes due to the clubs inability to move players on. 
 

If he does stay I would be interested to see how different we would look next season with a number of players off in the summer and the opportunity to bring in players who fit the profile for the system and whose skill

sets are more suited to the style of play. 
 

However for the remainder of this season he needs to find a way to get the best out of the squad he has and secure 4 wins and then look to refresh again in the summer, if he stays. 

[jamfox]

There seems to be two separate points here. 

 

1) Results 

2) Entertainment /style 

 

1) It's been a very frustrating.period so negatively Is understandable,  but to be honest, if you were given the table as it is now ( top of the league with a game in hand with five games to play) at the start of the season, you would have snapped somebody's hand off and defined this as a great success. In a notoriously difficult League 

 

2) sometimes it's a difficult watch ,  slow ponderous and lacking that quick dynamic attack that teams like Leeds have , but it's not all bad when it clicks It's a intricate stylish system it's just all that playing it around at the back can get a bit boring ,

 

 

Also, the signings have been good, he has passion and after Rodgers Mr calm and controlled this has been refreshing!

90 ,% of us accepted this style when we were winning ? IV seen some exciting football with shit results , it's a results business. Leeds are frustrated , Ipswich fans think they've run out of steam.  ill reserve judgement until the end of the season on the basis that if we get promoted Enzo bashing Will be both entitled and a bit ridiculous

 

I know one thing though..anybody wanting to sack Enzo with five games left to go after the team has been almost religiously. Indoctrinated to playing a particular style is the most stupid idea I have ever heard of in my life because this transition would take time and clearly now at the business end. This is something we don't have 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 April by jamfox

[shock0ng]

I get the pep style of play but it requires expensive technically gifted players to fully work. No teams really have that spending power. 

 

The klopp style is the one. Look at what he has done with smaller teams with next to no budgets. That's the style everyone should be aiming to replicate .

[HarryDee8]

Both Leeds and Ipswich are struggling also with nerves

 

Yes Enzo ball leaves us caught with our pants down for a counter attack

 

However I think it's just nerves now all the way to the end. We just need to somehow fight and get those boring 1-0 wins.  Leeds and Ipswich will be thinking the same thing 

Edited 11 April by HarryDee8

[Chelmofox]

13 minutes ago, shock0ng said:

I get the pep style of play but it requires expensive technically gifted players to fully work. No teams really have that spending power. 

 

The klopp style is the one. Look at what he has done with smaller teams with next to no budgets. That's the style everyone should be aiming to replicate .

I might have misread you. Are you saying that Klopp has had next to no budget?

[RumbleFox]

Liked him when he arrived, he was a breath of fresh air and I think he did a great job stabilising/reinvigorating a tired, depressed squad. He also did a good job getting the fans onside.

 

I like the ideas behind his football and it started off well. We were winning comfortably and I think most of us thought that when things finally “clicked” we’d be a force. In all honesty I don’t quite know what happened and even as a “happy clapper” I am happy to admit our football and form has been poor recently. 
 

Injuries to Ndidi and Ricardo were massive I think but obviously we can’t blame everything on those.

 

It’s a weird position to be in. We are top of the league with a game in hand and not many games to go. Any single team in the league would swap places with us. We should be happy. I think we’d all have taken this position at the start of the season. But there does seem to be a disconnect.

 

Personally I like him and I’m always a “patient” fan more likely to “given a manager time”. Especially a manager in only his second proper job/season and who has us top of the league. However I’m also aware that many of us were saying the same during Rodger’s tenure and look how that ended.

 

I’d still rather stick with him but I do understand the growing frustrations of some fans. 

Edited 11 April by RumbleFox

[Daggers]

None of the things he’s lacking this season will be fixed next season regardless of league. Players won’t flock in, key players will go - imagine this week in week out with worse players under Captain Dypso, god it’ll be awful 😂

[trooky]

Yes we should be happy, top of the league but human nature is to find the negatives in everything particularly this forum.

 

I like Enzo, but it all went wrong when some supporters booed the team off after a 3-1 home win against Swansea.

 

It's not been the same since and I think he'll walk at the end of the season whatever happens.

 

[StonyFox]

He's still very new to management. In comparison McKenna has managed twice as many matches, and Farke has about 5 times as many. But he does seem very stubborn in his ideas, and when it doesn't work it looks really bad. But we are right at the end of the season, top of the league with a game in hand so we have been more effective than any other team in the league. If we don't go up, then he has to go, if we do go up I'd give him the chance to carry on.

 

One thing about his stubbornness is that he doesn't have the players for the system, but still persists with it. The centre-backs are too slow, he admitted that (why buy coady!?), I don't think KDH is technical enough as an 8 although he has got great numbers in this league. Ndidi certainly isn't technical enough, and I wonder what would have happened if we signed Sensi. And we really should have signed a different profile of striker or a winger instead of Cannon. The issue will be the finances this summer, will he be able to bring in players that are more suited to the system and operate at a premier league level? We'll have to wait and see. 

 

It's very much squeaky bum time, and we just need the 3-4 wins to get us over the line. 

[Jon the Hat]

29 minutes ago, Daggers said:

None of the things he’s lacking this season will be fixed next season regardless of league. Players won’t flock in, key players will go - imagine this week in week out with worse players under Captain Dypso, god it’ll be awful 😂

If it wasn't for the money and PSR crap it would almost be more fun staying in this league and rebuilding with youth.