Go on, admit you were wrong

[Crinklyfox]

A lot of us have lost faith in Enzoball.  But a bigger problem is that it looks like many of the players have lost faith in Enzoball.  The confidence, swagger, fluency and any dynamism that there was has gone and been replaced by listless displays which just go through the motions.  I'm genuinely concerned that this will prevent our promotion.

[Leicesterpool]

To be a success at Leicester, I do feel you need to build a great relationship and understanding with the supporters. Enzo acts like this is the football like it or lump it and if we're not behind him he will go. For me you can't do that you must gain the trust and support. Back me or I'll leave will never go down well. Should be more stick with me, be patient and back the lads as good things will come.

 

When you go back to when Sven was manager, Sven had the fans backing most of the time due to the exciting football we were playing and the constant big wins we had. Problem for Sven was when it wrong, it would get worse, like Enzo no plan b but Sven I feel got more backing because the supporters liked Sven and the standard of football. Even though tactically we were a mess.

Edited 11 April by Leicesterpool

[Fox92]

I've never bought into him anyway, said it before. Hopefully I'm proved wrong though.

 

When there were indications of him saying "I'll walk if fans don't like me", I said then I wasn't bothered. Any half decent manager would have this squad top three anyway. 

 

But nowadays people love this style and people like me were quickly told we were idiots for wanting "long ball" even though there a lots of different ways to play football, not just two.

Edited 11 April by Fox92

[Haywood_6]

Overall, I've enjoyed this season. Enzo has his methods, and we aren't always the most entertaining and exhilarating side to watch. But we have had some success and have a very good chance of being promoted. That was thr objective at the start of the season was to get promoted and we're still on track to do that.

 

But when I look beyond this season and in to the future - we can't continue like this. We're far too predictable as a team. We've got one way of playing and nothing else. Sometimes you've got to play with passion and fight and determination. It doesn't always have to be controlled and tactical. Let the handbrake off and ****ing give it to opposition occasionally.

[lcfc278]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

At least 20, maybe more,  managers would be absolutely staggered if they had Kels, Dennis, Hamza, JJ, Vards, Coady and Souttar and others .... but chose to leave them on the bench. 

 

 

You're argument was 23 other teams only have 14/15 senior/main players which is rubbish.

 

My point was our squad is great, but that there weren't enough options in the middle or on the wing - that means just Praet and Hamza from your list above plus Albrighton, McAteer and Marcal. Hardly the most coveted players in the league.

[Nick]

Sections of Manchester City fans also complaining about Pep / Enzo ball too. 
 

I guess it’s just the modern blueprint.

[StanSP]

42 minutes ago, Crinklyfox said:

A lot of us have lost faith in Enzoball.  But a bigger problem is that it looks like many of the players have lost faith in Enzoball.  The confidence, swagger, fluency and any dynamism that there was has gone and been replaced by listless displays which just go through the motions.  I'm genuinely concerned that this will prevent our promotion.

Issue with this is that we then put in a performance like we did against Norwich... 

[StriderHiryu]

When it works, it's brilliant. When it doesn't, it looks awful.

 

I expected by now during the title run-in for the style to be perfected. I expected it to be poor to begin with, get slightly better, start looking great and then be incredible. What is unexpected is after going on that amazing run where we did play some great stuff, we regressed.

 

The issue with this style is that when it doesn't work, it doesn't work at all, and the team looks awful. That is a big issue with system football in general and many teams have suffered from this, even Liverpool and Man City at times over the last 5 years.

 

What Enzo doesn't realise or does realise but is too stubborn is the ruthlessness of the Championship. Every team that gets out, even the very best ones, have tons of crap games where they aren't great but get over the line. How do they get over the line? Through blood and thunder, and using their man for man player advantages. When Pearson got us out last time, we had many games where the game had to be more physical and we had to win it the ugly way.

 

In the Milwall game, in the last 10 minutes we did make quite a few great chances, the Riccy P and Daka ones come to mind. Nacho had a good chance. We made those chances because we were taking risks, and Milwall could easily have scored a second themselves. But that is the Championship in a nutshell. Sometimes you have to take those risks because it's all about points on the board.

 

There is too much control. If we played like we did in those 10 minutes we would see more scorelines like 4-2. But I also think we'd have picked up more points.

One thing I will say though is that Ipswich at home and Leeds away, the players lacked the minerals to see the game out. If we had won both those games, we'd be up by now!

[Scanchez]

Yeah, we're top of the league but what else as he done for us?

[foxsake]

1 minute ago, Scanchez said:

Yeah, we're top of the league but what else as he done for us?

Straight roads, aqueducts, medicine, irrigation but apart from that..

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, lcfc278 said:

Hardly the most coveted players in the league.

But other teams have to. Playing big lump centre halves at full back. 

 

Even Leeds have been playing a midfielder at centre half. 

 

I don't think we can play 'woe is me' that our cover for Winks are Hamza, Praet and Vesty. Probs 400 top level games across Europe between them and at least 50 games each in the the PL. 

 

Sympathy would be in short supply for, say, Donald Trump when he's grizzling that his spare Jumbo Jet is 15 years old. 

[Paninistickers]

54 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

using their man for man player advantages

Hallelujah. It's so mind numbingly obvious. 

 

We are on the brink of blowing promotion when, literally, all the team talk should be is 'win your individual battles' ...more or less what Pearson did last time. Be stronger, be fitter, be faster, be more skilful. It deffo weren't coaching..it was managing. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

56 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

When it works, it's brilliant. When it doesn't, it looks awful.

 

I expected by now during the title run-in for the style to be perfected. I expected it to be poor to begin with, get slightly better, start looking great and then be incredible. What is unexpected is after going on that amazing run where we did play some great stuff, we regressed.

 

The issue with this style is that when it doesn't work, it doesn't work at all, and the team looks awful. That is a big issue with system football in general and many teams have suffered from this, even Liverpool and Man City at times over the last 5 years.

 

What Enzo doesn't realise or does realise but is too stubborn is the ruthlessness of the Championship. Every team that gets out, even the very best ones, have tons of crap games where they aren't great but get over the line. How do they get over the line? Through blood and thunder, and using their man for man player advantages. When Pearson got us out last time, we had many games where the game had to be more physical and we had to win it the ugly way.

 

In the Milwall game, in the last 10 minutes we did make quite a few great chances, the Riccy P and Daka ones come to mind. Nacho had a good chance. We made those chances because we were taking risks, and Milwall could easily have scored a second themselves. But that is the Championship in a nutshell. Sometimes you have to take those risks because it's all about points on the board.

 

There is too much control. If we played like we did in those 10 minutes we would see more scorelines like 4-2. But I also think we'd have picked up more points.

One thing I will say though is that Ipswich at home and Leeds away, the players lacked the minerals to see the game out. If we had won both those games, we'd be up by now!

Or maybe even just choose to play like that earlier than the 83rd min!? 

[Golden Fox]

I joined Foxestalk in May '18 so we are now on our third manager since I've been here:

Claude Puel - Awful manager. Boring, sideways. Not good enough for us. Didn't sack him quick enough.

Brendan Rodgers - Poison Dwarf. Fraud. Clueless. Bottlejob. Not good enough for us. Didn't sack him quick enough.

Enzo Maresca - Boring. I told you he was a shit appointment. Not good enough for us. Needs to go regardless of whether we go up.

 

There seems to regularly be a race to the bottom to see who can slag off the manager first and threads like this where everyone piles in to make sure it is recorded that they said the manager was c**p before things really go wrong and they are sacked.

 

I liked the appointment of Enzo. I like what he has tried to do. I like the fact that after 41 games, we are at well over 2 points a game, top of the league and need 4 wins from 5 to be back in the Premier League. I like that if we do go up with him, we will (hopefully) get some more players to fit the system and will have a go in the Premier League playing a modern brand of football with an identity.

 

Yes, I am disappointed we haven't seemed to kick on from where we were early in the season, and very disappointed with the results of the Bristol City and Millwall games - but these games happen in football & we should have won both on the balance of chances. He is still a rookie manager in a long and gruelling division, and will be learning a lot from this year, and dare I say it, needs support from the supporters. So no, these recent results aren't enough to change my mind that he was a good appointment. Whether he is the messiah or not? For me, its still far too early to judge his career, but I'm obviously in the minority in that!

[messerschmitt]

59 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

When it works, it's brilliant. When it doesn't, it looks awful.

 

I expected by now during the title run-in for the style to be perfected. I expected it to be poor to begin with, get slightly better, start looking great and then be incredible. What is unexpected is after going on that amazing run where we did play some great stuff, we regressed.

 

The issue with this style is that when it doesn't work, it doesn't work at all, and the team looks awful. That is a big issue with system football in general and many teams have suffered from this, even Liverpool and Man City at times over the last 5 years.

 

What Enzo doesn't realise or does realise but is too stubborn is the ruthlessness of the Championship. Every team that gets out, even the very best ones, have tons of crap games where they aren't great but get over the line. How do they get over the line? Through blood and thunder, and using their man for man player advantages. When Pearson got us out last time, we had many games where the game had to be more physical and we had to win it the ugly way.

 

In the Milwall game, in the last 10 minutes we did make quite a few great chances, the Riccy P and Daka ones come to mind. Nacho had a good chance. We made those chances because we were taking risks, and Milwall could easily have scored a second themselves. But that is the Championship in a nutshell. Sometimes you have to take those risks because it's all about points on the board.

 

There is too much control. If we played like we did in those 10 minutes we would see more scorelines like 4-2. But I also think we'd have picked up more points.

One thing I will say though is that Ipswich at home and Leeds away, the players lacked the minerals to see the game out. If we had won both those games, we'd be up by now!

I think the system we play would be far better suited with a big physical number 9. I think Vardy touched the ball 4 times in the first half of the Millwall game. The way we control the game at times is brilliant but you can't always rely on the cut-back into the box.

 

In the Birmingham game, we put so many balls into the box it was crying out for someone like Soutar playing centre forward.

This system doesn't need a fast forward. When I think back I can only think of the Cannon goal which was a quick ball through to the forward. When we've broken forward at speed a lot of the time it's been Dewsbury Hall, Mavadidi and Fatawuw, even Winks I remember scoring like that once.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we just lump the ball up. I'm saying we play almost exactly the same but with the ability to put a cross into someone with height and physicality. It means the opposition isn't just expecting the 8s or wingers to cut lowballs back all the while.

 

Even Man City play with Harland. I'd love to see us play exactly as we do, but with Soutar as a striker. Come on Enzo, just for one game to prove me wrong!

[StriderHiryu]

21 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Hallelujah. It's so mind numbingly obvious. 

 

We are on the brink of blowing promotion when, literally, all the team talk should be is 'win your individual battles' ...more or less what Pearson did last time. Be stronger, be fitter, be faster, be more skilful. It deffo weren't coaching..it was managing. 

 

20 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Or maybe even just choose to play like that earlier than the 83rd min!? 

Yep that’s my point. Setting up for the first 10 minutes to get control is smart. But then I’d favour ramping up the pressure afterwards. 
 

Against a top Premier League team the controlled approach throughout would be better. Against Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City or Millwall it’s not!

[Foxmeister]

It seems for some that being able to post "told you so" takes precedence over the success of the team. Still top with a game in hand with all the top 4 stumbling towards the line.

[StonyFox]

3 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I think the system we play would be far better suited with a big physical number 9. I think Vardy touched the ball 4 times in the first half of the Millwall game. The way we control the game at times is brilliant but you can't always rely on the cut-back into the box.

 

In the Birmingham game, we put so many balls into the box it was crying out for someone like Soutar playing centre forward.

This system doesn't need a fast forward. When I think back I can only think of the Cannon goal which was a quick ball through to the forward. When we've broken forward at speed a lot of the time it's been Dewsbury Hall, Mavadidi and Fatawuw, even Winks I remember scoring like that once.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we just lump the ball up. I'm saying we play almost exactly the same but with the ability to put a cross into someone with height and physicality. It means the opposition isn't just expecting the 8s or wingers to cut lowballs back all the while.

 

Even Man City play with Harland. I'd love to see us play exactly as we do, but with Soutar as a striker. Come on Enzo, just for one game to prove me wrong!

Totally agree with this. We have 4 strikers, but none fit the profile for the system, especially when teams park the bus. Instead of cannon, we should have brought in an Ulloa type of player. Someone who can hold the ball up, and also provide a threat if we do cross the ball. There's often comments on this forum against having this type of striker, but its what a lot of the top clubs have. Haaland, Nunez, Kane, Hojland, Isak.

 

You need different tools to deal with different opponents but we have 4 strikers, none of which offer an areal threat. So the only option is to try and pass through a congested midfield and defence. 

[dr.o.ball]

3 minutes ago, Foxmeister said:

It seems for some that being able to post "told you so" takes precedence over the success of the team. Still top with a game in hand with all the top 4 stumbling towards the line.

Still top with a game in hand is the whole point really. LCFC fans are aware of the fact but dislike our footballing style anyway. Most games are dull tense affairs which are hard to enjoy, even when you desperately want to. 

[StriderHiryu]

14 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I think the system we play would be far better suited with a big physical number 9. I think Vardy touched the ball 4 times in the first half of the Millwall game. The way we control the game at times is brilliant but you can't always rely on the cut-back into the box.

 

In the Birmingham game, we put so many balls into the box it was crying out for someone like Soutar playing centre forward.

This system doesn't need a fast forward. When I think back I can only think of the Cannon goal which was a quick ball through to the forward. When we've broken forward at speed a lot of the time it's been Dewsbury Hall, Mavadidi and Fatawuw, even Winks I remember scoring like that once.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we just lump the ball up. I'm saying we play almost exactly the same but with the ability to put a cross into someone with height and physicality. It means the opposition isn't just expecting the 8s or wingers to cut lowballs back all the while.

 

Even Man City play with Harland. I'd love to see us play exactly as we do, but with Soutar as a striker. Come on Enzo, just for one game to prove me wrong!

I don't think we even need to have a physical forward per se, we just need to go for more 50/50's. This style of play relies on making the perfect opportunity. We have Ndidi in central midfield, you can aim a cross for him to head it down to someone else, ditto Mavididi.

 

The more gung-ho you are, the more likely you are to get caught on transition, as we saw against Milwall after we started chasing the game. But if you don't take enough risks, you aren't going to score. All of our strikers are good finishers. If you attack the box enough, chances will break to them and they will finish the chances they are given.

 

In too many games after we go behind, you get the feeling we aren't capable of scoring enough goals to win the game. See QPR, Bristol City and Milwall. In the Leeds game away we did actually make tons of chances, that game was an outlier where it was not down to the system that we ended up losing the game. But in the others, given we are at the business end of the season, it's super frustrating.

[Foxmeister]

9 minutes ago, dr.o.ball said:

Still top with a game in hand is the whole point really. LCFC fans are aware of the fact but dislike our footballing style anyway. Most games are dull tense affairs which are hard to enjoy, even when you desperately want to. 

Fair point, it's frustrating to watch particularly when we're behind and time is against us but it's not the disaster some would have us believe.

[grobyfox1990]

16 minutes ago, dr.o.ball said:

Still top with a game in hand is the whole point really. LCFC fans are aware of the fact but dislike our footballing style anyway. Most games are dull tense affairs which are hard to enjoy, even when you desperately want to. 

Not true IMO, I've been loving the PL this season, never watched so much of it. There have been some all time classic games from those you wouldn't expect e.g., Wolves 3-4 Man Utd.

I back Enzo's style overall, but not in this league where the opposition are so technically poor and physically weak. You should be committing a lot of men forward, moving the ball quickly, taking risks and overwhelming them as the game goes on.

Even if we give up chances, as we have done throughout the season, teams are not good enough or fit enough to take them.

[Paninistickers]

Wish i had the courage of my convictions to go against the tide, but it was hard to argue as the results were outstanding. 

 

But, I'm sure at Christmas at the height of our form, I messaged that it 'didn't feel right' or words to that effect. 

 

Also, the amount of late goals we were conceding, even when winning, was a major red flag. Top of the table teams SCORE late goals, not concede. Sheff Weds, West Brom, Brum, Millwall twice and unbelievably even Rotherham to an extent had us hanging on over that good run over Christmas. 

 

I still believe we will probably limp over the line. However, he won't receive a single thanks from me. Players, sure. But Enzo,.nope. Seems.a.nice.fealla but his unnecessary football experiment has been an abject failure.

[Winstonthedog]

His previous taste of management didn't go well ... and the championship is like no other league on earth ... you need to have the ability to change and adapt game by game or during a game ... Enzo cannot or is not willing or able to do so ... being part of Peps backroom staff is not a guarantee of success ... but for me if we do get promoted I want the club to be able to hold their own and challenge .... at present I just can't see it if things remain the same 

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

I don't think we even need to have a physical forward per se, we just need to go for more 50/50's. This style of play relies on making the perfect opportunity. We have Ndidi in central midfield, you can aim a cross for him to head it down to someone else, ditto Mavididi.

 

The more gung-ho you are, the more likely you are to get caught on transition, as we saw against Milwall after we started chasing the game. But if you don't take enough risks, you aren't going to score. All of our strikers are good finishers. If you attack the box enough, chances will break to them and they will finish the chances they are given.

 

In too many games after we go behind, you get the feeling we aren't capable of scoring enough goals to win the game. See QPR, Bristol City and Milwall. In the Leeds game away we did actually make tons of chances, that game was an outlier where it was not down to the system that we ended up losing the game. But in the others, given we are at the business end of the season, it's super frustrating.

I think our system struggles when we go behind. Against Leeds, we took a fifteen-minute lead and that is exactly why we created chances, we were able to wait for the right times as Leeds had to try to score.

 

Once Bristol had scored I don't remember us creating anything.

 

I definitely agree with you on the fact we could go 50/50 a lot more than we do but I also think we would have had a lot more success this season if we had Ulloa type striker as @StonyFox mentioned.

 

This system also creates a lot of opportunities for the wingers to pull the ball back but most of the time there's not enough space and you can see the opposition setting up for that Fatiwu to Ndidi five-yard pass as it is the only option. Imagine how much more space we'd get to do that if the defenders also had to worry about someone who could get a head on a cross as well as the pull back.

 

I just think our system of controlling the game would work so much better with a big striker who could head it.