Cooper - OUT

[whoareyaaa]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

Remember when football used to be more "off the cuff"?

 

Not pre planned, predictable or robotic. 

 

****ing fantastic, enjoyable and exciting, wasn't it, huh, just like todays winner!

I think we would have won this 3-0 under Enzo

[Iwebema]

3 minutes ago, Hales said:

I'm trying to find it and will post when I do

 

 

This is very much in line with the other leaks, 

 

5 minutes ago, Hales said:

I'm trying to find it and will post when I do

 

 

This is extremely on point for the leaks we have been hearing about.

 

The players think they are better than just finishing 17th. They don't hate him, I think they quite like him as a person, but they are frustrated by the lack of belief and ambition he's showing in them.

 

I dont love cooper but I think even he can keep this lot up, I think we have alot of talent personally, didn't really understand so many criticising our squad, I think its good!

 

I think the problem is I agree with the player leaks we can be much better so it frustrates me, but let's just enjoy tonight, we all know cooper is not the long term future, so take the encouraging parts because when he does leave we will be a far more attractive proposition than someone like Southampton currently are.

[shailen]

After 8 games, 2 wins, 3 draws and 3 loses. A good start. 

 

We've not been battered by anyone and been in every single game we've played. We've scored in every game too.

 

It might not be pretty, we live on the edge at times but you can't deny it's effective. Cooper is doing great with the squad he has at his disposal and we can't ask for much more than what he has delivered so far. 

 

[RonnieTodger]

So conflicting.

 

I’m absolutely buzzing with that, and if you can’t enjoy those moments, then maybe just sack it off.

 

It’s so weird because Reid and Ayew were mental subs. Until Ayew’s winner, he was hideous  

 

In spite of anything, he turned it around. I had a feeling that it would all come to a head against Forest and that we’d lose badly.

 

We still probably will, but ****ing he’ll we need to get behind him and the lads on Friday. He’s not going anywhere before then and any negativity only harms us.

 

Whatever happens this season, I do not want to lose at home to those *****. 

Edited 19 October 2024 by RonnieTodger

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, shailen said:

After 8 games, 2 wins, 3 draws and 3 loses. A good start. 

 

We've not been battered by anyone and been in every single game we've played. We've scored in every game too.

 

It might not be pretty, we live on the edge at times but you can't deny it's effective. Cooper is doing great with the squad he has at his disposal and we can't ask for much more than what he has delivered so far. 

 

The unfortunate truth is that Ipswich and Southampton have played much more expansively than us and are really, really struggling. Burnley and Luton did the same last season and really, really struggled (Sheff Utd were just crap). To stay up, it’s likely that you’re going to have to play pragmatic football such is the nature of the beast. 

Edited 19 October 2024 by Lionator

[Number 6]

6 minutes ago, Lionator said:

The unfortunate truth is that Ipswich and Southampton have played much more expansively than us and are really, really struggling. Burnley and Luton did the same last season and really, really struggled (Sheff Utd were just crap). To stay up, it’s likely that you’re going to have to play pragmatic football such is the nature of the beast. 

Ipswich are a great comparison too. The team we were closest to last season and they're struggling massively. They were good against Villa but have been poor in all other games, including being very lucky against Southampton.

[BKLFox]

36 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

I hope so, and look, my opinion is based on the performances, I think we've been quite fortunate this season that we have finally come into games at times the opponents have imploded, Spurs fell apart after absolutely dominating, Southampton today, Bournemouth last week could have buried the game multiple times but blew their chances, Palace were 2 completely different teams between halves, Arsenal should have been 4-0 up at half time now, obviously results in football will often come down to a striker missing or scoring a chance, but at some point, results have to start coming from performances of our squad rather than the implosion of our opponents. 
Points are points and the table doesn't lie, however, I personally don't believe that if we play how we are across the rest of the season we will continue to keep getting away with these results. 

I think our points do not reflect our performances, you could argue that getting points when playing bad is a good thing, because when you come good you start pulling teams apart, but we are making the same mistakes every week and it's not changing. 
It will be a hell of a battle and until Arsenal I was fully behind giving Cooper time, but we've gone to an AWFUL Southampton and were lucky to be 2-0 down and not 3. 

I don't think our performances are sustainable enough to keep us up, unless the bottom 4 continue to implode every week. 
If the bottom 4 start picking up points, we could very quickly be back in trouble unless we address the issues we have. I could be optimistic or pessimistic for both sides of my own argument, my optimism unfortunately has switched to pessimism. I hope Cooper can improve his decision making and start putting in some proper performances for 90 minutes and not when desperately chasing. 

I’m frustrated also and not a huge Cooper fan either but games ebb and flow there aren’t many teams that will perform for 90mins and therefore don’t see all our games as fortunate because the opposition capitulated but more like when we had our time we took it.

 

If I’m honest I thought we have deserved something in most games, the palace game we were seconds away from all 3pts and the Arsenal game could have been drawn if not for XT & we would have deserved them not for our attacking prowess but our ability to stay in the game.

We are still only 1 of 3 teams to score in every game, we might not pepper a goal but when we get there we do put it away and our points are coming from this and the ability to stay in a game.

The only game that I honestly thought we don’t deserve anything here was the Fulham game.

[PhillippaT]

16 minutes ago, shailen said:

After 8 games, 2 wins, 3 draws and 3 loses. A good start. 

 

We've not been battered by anyone and been in every single game we've played. We've scored in every game too.

 

It might not be pretty, we live on the edge at times but you can't deny it's effective. Cooper is doing great with the squad he has at his disposal and we can't ask for much more than what he has delivered so far. 

 

Season 14/15 vibes reading this...  We'll stay up after being bottom at Christmas, then win it next year, again, then?   

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Lionator said:

The unfortunate truth is that Ipswich and Southampton have played much more expansively than us and are really, really struggling. Burnley and Luton did the same last season and really, really struggled (Sheff Utd were just crap). To stay up, it’s likely that you’re going to have to play pragmatic football such is the nature of the beast. 

That is fine and I think most sane people accept we aren't going to be swashbuckling our way to the European places but pragmatism is not necessarily synonymous with being defensive and grinding out ugly results. It means using the tools you have in the way that makes the most sense and I do not think that's what he's doing. I want us to play more expansively and give more chances to our creative attacking players like Fatawu not for entertainment's sake (or because in my subjective opinion it's the right way to play or whatever) but because we see basically every game that is when we are at our best.

Edited 19 October 2024 by Guest

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Right, when have you seen this kind of thing get called out so early in a managers reign before and with such intensity?

 

The football is better than what was served up in Rodgers last 18 months and Enzo ball as well.

the football under cooper is not even a shadow of the football we played under Enzo. The football we're playing is, to but it bluntly, hideous and shit

[hebangsthedrums]

1 hour ago, JimJams said:

I'm not entirely sold on it being JJ, though a lot of the goals shipped have come down his side. Cooper wants to play the high fullback and I think often we are getting exposed short of cover.  You'd have to look at things in more detail to see if it's the player or the system.  Perhaps that's why Riccy isn't playing?  Maybe he's questioned it and JJ just gets on with it?

That's one for the conspiracy lot.

JJ's stick together...

[JimJams]

7 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

the football under cooper is not even a shadow of the football we played under Enzo. The football we're playing is, to but it bluntly, hideous and shit

100% agree but I think Cooper might be for us what Hughton was for Brighton.  And oddly it might results in the exact same thing.

[The whole world smiles]

7 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

the football under cooper is not even a shadow of the football we played under Enzo. The football we're playing is, to but it bluntly, hideous and shit

Just the small matter that The football we played under Enzo was against a much weaker level of opponent.

 

Today's manager had that Southampton purring last season, this season not so much wonder what's changed!

[iancognito]

1 hour ago, pazzerfox said:

We've won 2 premier league games on the bounce mate, have a beer and enjoy it! The 7-0 was tongue and cheek to get people like you to bite. 🎣 Have a good evening! Come on Steve...Blue Army!!

Always do, win or lose.

 

And don't pretend you're some sort of philosopher knowing about "people like me", I've seen enough managers come and go to recognise the good ones and the imposters without blindly dancing round a maypole after a win against one of the doggo teams in the league.

[Lionator]

2 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Just the small matter that The football we played under Enzo was against a much weaker level of opponent.

 

Today's manager had that Southampton purring last season, this season not so much wonder what's changed!

We like to think that Enzo would’ve got us off to this semi decent start (and I think we would) but we would’ve also become unstuck in more games too. 
 

The one thing even compared to Enzo that Cooper deserves massive credit, our players are clearly mentally stronger this season. 

[Muzzy_no7]

27 minutes ago, shailen said:

After 8 games, 2 wins, 3 draws and 3 loses. A good start. 

 

We've not been battered by anyone and been in every single game we've played. We've scored in every game too.

 

It might not be pretty, we live on the edge at times but you can't deny it's effective. Cooper is doing great with the squad he has at his disposal and we can't ask for much more than what he has delivered so far. 

 

Sorry but I disagree with this.

 

We were pants at home to Villa and played scared at Fulham too.

 

We were EXTREMELY lucky not to lose 9-1 against Arsenal and didn’t deserve to draw against Bournemouth, let alone win.

 

Cooper is not doing ‘great’ with this squad. 
 

Points obtained it is below par for me, looking at our fixtures we should be on 10-11 pts and be putting in better performances.

 

Squad we have is better than just 17th. 
 

 

We may have ‘been in every game’ but can you honestly say that over 90(+10mins) in any of them we have been solidly better than the other team? 
 

The Winks and Fatawu situation on top of the JJ leaks point towards a quite dysfunctional dressing room. 
 

We should be asking for more, the players think the same too. 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

2 hours ago, worthosoriginals said:

Didn't hear much from you in that crap first half today

I'm at a music festival so wasn't online. Nice to see you missed me though. Ta. 😘

[Chrysalis]

14 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

the football under cooper is not even a shadow of the football we played under Enzo. The football we're playing is, to but it bluntly, hideous and shit

Enzo ball was poor.  The best games we had under him he openly admitted he didnt want us to play that way.

His way of play might have been much more enjoyable and effective if we had better quality more suited players, but with what we had overall it was quite poor, massively over playing it to get ball from A to B, and moving the ball backwards and forwards between the same few players whilst in our own half isnt exciting or efficient.

 

The crazy thing is 10 years ago, everyone would ne happy with this, we all thought Pearson was brilliant, but if that era came now it would be very different.  Claudio also wouldnt have got the support either, as he was relying heavily on fast effective counters.

 

Now after a few years of Rodgers ball, and Enzo ball, suddenly the majority are thinking its the only way to play the game and everything else isnt good football.  I thought it was just Top being delusional, but it seems he isnt alone.

 

When we get good moments in games, the posts I am reading are utter lunacy, claiming its the players taking over from the manager and going against his will.  There is so much confirmation bias going on, the human mind is a fascinating thing.

 

Russell Martin is very similar to Enzo, they have very similar philosophies, so you only have to look at Southampton to see the reality.  I dont know if its people becoming like spoilt children following a few good years, or just not accepting the reality we need to be pragmatic to survive in this division.

 

Now it doesnt mean I think Cooper is the way forward long term, but I think him or someone similar to him was the way to go after promotion and he is doing a good job.  We got pretty lucky with Chelsea coming in for Enzo, 10 million to do something that would have happened around Christmas anyway with us having to pay him off rather than getting compensation.

[phoneticerror]

3 hours ago, Wolfox said:

Yeah…. Subs were horrendous…. Zero impact

 

Give it a break…

A good manager would start Fatawu. That’s what changed the game. Imagine if he started.

 

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, phoneticerror said:

A good manager would start Fatawu. That’s what changed the game. Imagine if he started.

 

Doesnt mean we would have started better, games dont flow the same for 90 minutes.  Fatawa's energy is probably better later in games against tired defenders.

Edited 19 October 2024 by Chrysalis

[Paninistickers]

The Skipp / Winks switch was usual clown Cooper behaviour. 

 

The winks, Skipp, Wilf triumvirate has been one of our strongest points. 

 

The obvious HT switch was Bilal off and winks on and push Wilf up.

 

As for the  BdcR introduction. Words fail. 

 

And, as buzzing as I am, the decision to abandon full backs very very nearly cost us a gimme win. Saints had two big chances in Injury time and we were all over the place for 10 mins after we went 2-1. He's a lucky fella

[Jimmy]

4 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

The Skipp / Winks switch was usual clown Cooper behaviour. 

 

The winks, Skipp, Wilf triumvirate has been one of our strongest points. 

 

The obvious HT switch was Bilal off and winks on and push Wilf up.

 

As for the  BdcR introduction. Words fail. 

 

And, as buzzing as I am, the decision to abandon full backs very very nearly cost us a gimme win. Saints had two big chances in Injury time and we were all over the place for 10 mins after we went 2-1. He's a lucky fella

and people on here were using playing those 3 together as a reason he should be sacked just 2 games ago, btw we won both games, the meltdown pre Palace about that midfield 3 being picked was one for the ages now he's at fault for NOT picking it, make up your damn minds

Edited 19 October 2024 by Jimmy

[JimJams]

3 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

And, as buzzing as I am, the decision to abandon full backs very very nearly cost us a gimme win. Saints had two big chances in Injury time and we were all over the place for 10 mins after we went 2-1. He's a lucky fella

You could just as easily argue that abandoning fullbacks is the exact reason we got it back to 2-2.

[phoneticerror]

4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Doesnt mean we would have started better, games dont flow the same for 90 minutes.  Fatawa's energy is probably better later in games against tired defenders.

Valid point

[Wolfox]

4 minutes ago, phoneticerror said:

A good manager would start Fatawu. That’s what changed the game. Imagine if he started.

 

If; but, maybe…

 

He didn’t start the season well, but what a response! 
 

Anyway, the broader point is that there is a huge confirmation bias…. He make a good sub, he should have started 

 

He makes a bad sub, he shouldn’t have been on the bench, or brought him on too late/ too early

Today his sub turned the game…. Let him have that at least?