Cooper - OUT

[Sly]

Just now, winteriscoming said:

I’m not so sure. His win rate is very similar to Coopers. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Smith only won 2 games his second and last game. I just don’t think Smith would have got enough wins to keep us up. 

Smith had 8 games and took 9 points.

 

Lost - Man C - 3:1

Won - Wolves - 2:1

Drew - Leeds - 1:1

Drew - Everton - 2:2

Lost - Fulham - 5:3

Lost - Liverpool - 3:0

Drew - Newcastle - 0:0

Won - West Ham - 2:1

 

So Won 2, drew 3, lost 3. Bar the Fulham drumming I’d expect us to lose the other against Man City / Liverpool. The Fulham game was awful. 

 

The 4 games before these were Brentford, Palace, Villa and Bournemouth, where we only took 1 point. Even two more points to from those 4 games and we stay up on goal difference (on paper).
 

Obviously the butterfly effect means it naturally wouldn’t have played out like that but the basic maths state we would. 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

26 minutes ago, Sly said:

In fairness, as was rightly pointed out, I’d forgotten Bassett existed. His win % was nothing short of horrendous. 
 

Taylor’s time in charge was brilliant for 9 months. That Wycombe game was like a sucker punch and we never actually recovered from it. 

 

Wycombe was the big moment but there was a game against Arsenal during the festive period where we got properly slapped and Henry killed us which is where the wheels started to fall right off. Lost to Bradford at home the week after.

 

Couple of handy results right before Wycombe but it is insane Taylor stayed in a job that summer given the run post-Essandoh, absolutely brutal results against pretty piss poor opposition in the main.

[RowlattsFox]

If we are outside the bottom 3 after the next 10 games, Cooper will have done a good job. 

[winteriscoming]

19 minutes ago, Sly said:

Smith had 8 games and took 9 points.

 

Lost - Man C - 3:1

Won - Wolves - 2:1

Drew - Leeds - 1:1

Drew - Everton - 2:2

Lost - Fulham - 5:3

Lost - Liverpool - 3:0

Drew - Newcastle - 0:0

Won - West Ham - 2:1

 

So Won 2, drew 3, lost 3. Bar the Fulham drumming I’d expect us to lose the other against Man City / Liverpool. The Fulham game was awful. 

 

The 4 games before these were Brentford, Palace, Villa and Bournemouth, where we only took 1 point. Even two more points to from those 4 games and we stay up on goal difference (on paper).
 

Obviously the butterfly effect means it naturally wouldn’t have played out like that but the basic maths state we would. 

It’s obvious saying it but we needed to win 1 of the games out of Leeds and Everton. It still shocks me how bad we were at Fulham. There's 5 winnable games there and we managed 2. Easier said than done but it was achievable. 
As you say the 4 games before very winnable as well. 

[Sly]

17 minutes ago, sharpylcfc said:

I'd also forgot Bassett existed so you're not alone there. You forget after Taylor how bad the managers we had were until Pearson came along only one really any good was Adams especially under the financial difficulties at the time. Craig Levein being in charge for only 2 years it felt about 10 years at the time!

Pearson rebuilt the club. You can’t really under estimated the massive rebuild we had in League 1, then the foundations be laid for the Premier League win either.
 

In reality, the season we were relegated from the Championship, we only conceded 45 goals in the league. We just couldn’t score. We had the 2nd best defence but worst attack. To put it into perspective, Colchester who finished bottom that season, scored 20 more goals than us. 

 

Pearson had the task of trimming and transforming that squad from the craziness of Mandarics’ multiple managers that season. Morrison, Tunchev and Dyer were very good purchases for League 1. Even the load players we had in Hobbs, Cleverley, Davies and Gilbert were great. He did a similar job to basically what Maresca had last season. 
 

I’ve never want Pearson  back now as clearly he’s struggled elsewhere without Shakey and Walsh. However they were a special trio together at Leicester. The sum of them was better than the individual parts as they complimented each others weaknesses and strengths so well. 
 

You’re right on the manager front as well, that spell of Taylor, Parker, Bassett, Adams, Kelly, Worthington, Allen, Rudkin and his makes for one game, Megson, Taggart / Burrows and Holloway was a rough time. That went from 2001 to 2008? We were just in a downward spiral. 
 

Even when King Power purchased us and Pearson left as he wasn’t appreciated, it could have gone belly up with the  craziness of Sousa and then Sven. 
 

Every head coach / manager has a shelf life, especially if you don’t refresh the squad with 3 to 4 players every season. That’s football, it’s why the great coaches like Ferguson, Guardiola, Wenger etc have built several different eras / teams. I don’t drop Klopp into that category as I don’t feel he ever built more than one Liverpool team. 

 

Rodgers, Ranieri, Mourinho etc have a shelf life of around two years. The third year it goes to pot. 
 

Anyhow I link this back to Cooper as all good coaches you could say have a philosophy for how they want to play, patterns of play etc. I’m not sure we have that.

 

As an aside, I was advised at the weekend that Coopers team at Forest (back room staff) complimented his weaknesses. Apparently he doesn’t have that here, so he’s almost leaving himself to be shot at. I‘M sure others who are better placed can comment on that suggestion. 
 

 

[Sly]

13 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

It’s obvious saying it but we needed to win 1 of the games out of Leeds and Everton. It still shocks me how bad we were at Fulham. There's 5 winnable games there and we managed 2. Easier said than done but it was achievable. 
As you say the 4 games before very winnable as well. 

Yes, Smith stopped the rot but didn’t exactly set the world on fire.
 

Let’s be honest, him and Cooper are from the same fishing pond and ideally you’d have neither.

 

They might both scrape you over the line but it’s painful viewing. 

[Sly]

31 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Wycombe was the big moment but there was a game against Arsenal during the festive period where we got properly slapped and Henry killed us which is where the wheels started to fall right off. Lost to Bradford at home the week after.

 

Couple of handy results right before Wycombe but it is insane Taylor stayed in a job that summer given the run post-Essandoh, absolutely brutal results against pretty piss poor opposition in the main.

I’ve just looked back and in 2000 / 2001 we finished 13th in the Premier League under Taylor. Up to game 20 we were in the top 4. We lost 14 of the last 18 games. Crazy he was kept on for the following season. 
 

That 6-1 destruction by Arsenal was the start of the rot you’re right. 
 

Replacing Lennon with Junior Lewis in the winter transfer window was like replacing a Bugatti with a Smart Car and expecting it to win a drag race.
 

 You then look at the start of the next season and the 5-0 loss to Bolton and 4-0 to Arsenal, I’m surprised Taylor didn’t go in the summer, but we waited until the end of September to sack him. 
 

 

 

[justfoxes]

22 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Not everyone on the board is convinced by him. Let’s say he’s not going to be given the same leeway as Rodgers was….

Let’s hope so !

[Sly]

7 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

Let’s hope so !

I’d be surprised if ANYONE was convinced by him at this point 

[Groby_Blue]

12 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

It’s obvious saying it but we needed to win 1 of the games out of Leeds and Everton. It still shocks me how bad we were at Fulham. There's 5 winnable games there and we managed 2. Easier said than done but it was achievable. 
As you say the 4 games before very winnable as well. 

We were 2 1 up against Everton and then won a penalty that Maddison insisted on taking  - and missed. If that had gone in there's a good chance that would have been three points instead of one. 

 

The draw at Newcastle could easily have been a win as well but for that world class save from Castagne's shot right at the end. 

 

On such fine margins are relegations avoided or confirmed. 

[Muzzy_no7]

Pooper Out.

[Gamble92]

51 minutes ago, Groby_Blue said:

We were 2 1 up against Everton and then won a penalty that Maddison insisted on taking  - and missed. If that had gone in there's a good chance that would have been three points instead of one. 

 

The draw at Newcastle could easily have been a win as well but for that world class save from Castagne's shot right at the end. 

 

On such fine margins are relegations avoided or confirmed. 

The team shouldn't have been relying on fine margins. We had become everything we used to scoff at the rest of the Premier League for being. 

 

It's only us that feel the pain but not one person at the club that year deserved to avoid the punishment that their attitudes deserved. Petulance, arrogance, laziness, ineptitude. It sits alongside the greatest achievement in the Premier League as easily one of, if not the, worst. 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Groby_Blue said:

We were 2 1 up against Everton and then won a penalty that Maddison insisted on taking  - and missed. If that had gone in there's a good chance that would have been three points instead of one. 

 

The draw at Newcastle could easily have been a win as well but for that world class save from Castagne's shot right at the end. 

 

On such fine margins are relegations avoided or confirmed. 

the Everton comment is true - that game was proper basketball and 3-1 would have been a good lead 

 

but newcastle ?  They shagged us for 90mins and we managed a shot in added time when they decided they would try and protect the point they needed. The fact that we kept a clean sheet that night was pretty much the most astonishing thing about the season! 

[trooky]

According to the Athletic we've had the 2nd easiest start to the season so not looking good.

[Fox92]

3 minutes ago, trooky said:

According to the Athletic we've had the 2nd easiest start to the season so not looking good.

Load of rubbish. Chelsea have had the third hardest start despite the fact they've only played two of last season's top 6 (Man City, Liverpool). Forest have also only played two of last season's top 6 (Chelsea, Liverpool) but they've had the fourth easiest start? If this season's form is an influence then both teams have also played Brighton. You could argue Chelsea have played Newcastle as well but Newcastle sit on the same amount of points as Fulham who Forest have already played.

[Mickyblueeyes]

25 minutes ago, trooky said:

According to the Athletic we've had the 2nd easiest start to the season so not looking good.

i dont know how accurate these things are or whether we should give them much attention but, from my own perception as a start, it hasnt been overly daunting. I think its only been one game which we have gone into (Arsenal) where I've been really nervous in case of a trashing. Spurs perhaps on the basis that it was first game. The last four especially had me quite optimistic. 

 

I think that changes when you look at the fixtures over the next two months. Good news (or bad news) is that the "kind" start repeats itself as we enter the final stages of the season. 

[Pliskin]

It’s not been an unfriendly set of fixtures though has it? 
 

You can look at the situation half full or half empty, we’ve been fairly consistent, but I think we’ve certainly think we’ve failed to take advantage of some good situations, I don’t think Fulham were particularly great when we played then and we could have potentially taken something from them. Villa, again take away sloppy mistakes we could have taken something from them, and the same with Everton. Palace, to go 2-0 up and throw that was bitterly disappointing, Forest again, first half thought we were arguably the better side, second half we threw it away…… Ipswich, again should be beating teams like Ipswich……

 

So, we are in a weird position, because we’ve shown in every game that we can match our opponents but it’s all in small spells, there’s not been a 90 minute performance, you can’t really call it, has it been a good start? Or a bad one? I’d say it’s been acceptable, theres things to work on but there’s room for optimism…… if such a combination can exist……

 

I definitely think we are underperforming to some degree, and I don’t think it’s harsh to suggest that, but then again, that’s good, because it shows that we’re in games and are showing that we can compete……

 

It’s where we go from here……

[gurru991]

9 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Pooper Out.

I suggest you put it back in !!

[foxinsocks]

I will drive him to Coventry this afternoon

[foxfanazer]

17 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

I will drive him to Coventry this afternoon

Not sure they'd want him

[Jobyfox]

I suppose we also need to appreciate that those “easier fixtures” will be ones that our opponents are targeting. 
 

Ipswich, with no win all season, would have been looking at that home game with us almost like a cup final. They’d have been desperate for the win and that’s evidenced by their complete meltdown about the penalty incident since.

 

Our season might be defined by those fixtures where we grab points completely against any expectation. A good start would be Manchester United away 

[Les-TA-Jon]

On 06/11/2024 at 12:24, Fox92 said:

Load of rubbish. Chelsea have had the third hardest start despite the fact they've only played two of last season's top 6 (Man City, Liverpool). Forest have also only played two of last season's top 6 (Chelsea, Liverpool) but they've had the fourth easiest start? If this season's form is an influence then both teams have also played Brighton. You could argue Chelsea have played Newcastle as well but Newcastle sit on the same amount of points as Fulham who Forest have already played.

Also there's only 4.9 points of "whatever" between the most and least difficult anyhow. 

 

It's a 5.7% increase from 85 to 89.9 - whether that's 5.7% more difficult, I don't know, because not sure how "Opta Power Rankings" are calculated

Edited 7 November 2024 by Les-TA-Jon

[lcfcbluearmy]

On 05/11/2024 at 22:05, winteriscoming said:

It’s obvious saying it but we needed to win 1 of the games out of Leeds and Everton. It still shocks me how bad we were at Fulham. There's 5 winnable games there and we managed 2. Easier said than done but it was achievable. 
As you say the 4 games before very winnable as well. 

Maddisons awful penalty against Everton didn't help either

[FosseSpark]

5.7% of the time, our games are harder all of the time. 

 

[winteriscoming]

Julien Stéphan now available. 
Just been sacked by Rennes. 
Niko Kovac and Rudi Garcia rumoured to be in the running to take over at Rennes.