General News Thread

[st albans fox]

Just saw the video of Henry Novak’s last moments.  What a tragic incident. 
his murderer will not serve less than 21 years.  That means he could be free before his mid forties.  Given that he accused his victim of racism to try and avoid responsibility for the attack, I’m not sure why he should be allowed to re enter society before his mid sixties.  We simply have no need for people of his character to be free and walking amongst us. 
 

whilst the weapon was not actually a Kirpan, are we reaching a point where the carrying of such a weapon will have to be curtailed ?

[adejo92]

30 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Just saw the video of Henry Novak’s last moments.  What a tragic incident. 
his murderer will not serve less than 21 years.  That means he could be free before his mid forties.  Given that he accused his victim of racism to try and avoid responsibility for the attack, I’m not sure why he should be allowed to re enter society before his mid sixties.  We simply have no need for people of his character to be free and walking amongst us. 
 

whilst the weapon was not actually a Kirpan, are we reaching a point where the carrying of such a weapon will have to be curtailed ?

Saw the same video.

 

I am usually a massive defender of the Police, but that was dealt with absolutely horrendously at scene.

 

Poor lad.

[StanSP]

34 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

whilst the weapon was not actually a Kirpan, are we reaching a point where the carrying of such a weapon will have to be curtailed ?

I hope not. 

 

How many attacks with kirpans have there actually been? 

 

It's chasing a problem that isn't actually there (in terms of kirpans). 

 

Knife crime is obviously a thing and crackdown needs to continue in reducing it. 

 

But Sikhs have been allowed to carry kirpans for decades now on the streets. Why is it an issue now? Because it was misquoted from the trial that he used it, which was incorrect? 

 

Any responsible Sikh person knows they only use it in self defence or as protection if they are attacked. And for the most part, you'd probably find an overwhelming majority of Sikhs a) condemn what this vile man did to Henry and b) use their kirpan as it is intended. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I hope not. 

 

How many attacks with kirpans have there actually been? 

 

It's chasing a problem that isn't actually there (in terms of kirpans). 

 

Knife crime is obviously a thing and crackdown needs to continue in reducing it. 

 

But Sikhs have been allowed to carry kirpans for decades now on the streets. Why is it an issue now? Because it was misquoted from the trial that he used it, which was incorrect? 

 

Any responsible Sikh person knows they only use it in self defence or as protection if they are attacked. And for the most part, you'd probably find an overwhelming majority of Sikhs a) condemn what this vile man did to Henry and b) use their kirpan as it is intended. 

In the UK, claiming an object of any kind in your possession is for 'self defence', will get you arrested.

A copper was telling me he arrested a fella he stopped and searched for having a baseball bat in his car because when asked why, he said it was for, 'Protection'.

 

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, adejo92 said:

Saw the same video.

 

I am usually a massive defender of the Police, but that was dealt with absolutely horrendously at scene.

 

Poor lad.

It does seem the Police had made up their minds that Henry was the bad guy and too prepared to accept the word of the actual murderer and his family who obviously were not independent witnesses. You would think in the officers training they would be made aware that internal injuries are not obvious. Why they needed to handcuff the poor chap when he was not offering any sort of resistance is baffling 

[Wymsey]

5 hours ago, Raj said:

Really Sad to hear about kevin Keegan's cancer diagnosis.

People of my age will know what a legend he is when he went to newcastle as a player ( See Auf weidershen oet!) and then " I'll love it if we beat them" when he managed them.

All out attack football and a joy to watch at the time

Never really heard him talk apart from that famous "I'd love it.." comment - but he seemed to be admired by nearly everyone who knew him on and off the pitch.

 

On the cancer matter, what are the chances of 'survival' (with such a high-stage diagnosis nowadays)?

[lcfcell]

After seeing that video as far as I’m concerned the police are accomplices. Lock them up. 
 

Utter scum. 

[StanSP]

7 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

In the UK, claiming an object of any kind in your possession is for 'self defence', will get you arrested.

A copper was telling me he arrested a fella he stopped and searched for having a baseball bat in his car because when asked why, he said it was for, 'Protection'.

 

Under the criminal justice act Sikhs are allowed to carry it though? And one of the reasons they do so, is to protect themselves. If they use it as a form of aggression or violence without being attacked they they'd rightly be arrested. 

[Raj]

Horrible video of the poor lad.

I always try and stick up for the Cops as an ex Special but feck sake that was disgraceful.

At the least they should be investigated and retrained if not suspended.

Hopefully they have given themselves up to the IPC.

 

As a punjabi guy, like stan has said hope this doesnt trigger any backlash to wards sikhs as on the whole they are a massive positive to society and not often anything like this happens, although the murderer seems to be hiding behind this rather than the root cause that he was a ****.

[Super_horns]

52 minutes ago, lcfcell said:

After seeing that video as far as I’m concerned the police are accomplices. Lock them up. 
 

Utter scum. 

Not a good look at all .

 

Did they think the poor lad was suddenly going to leap up and escape or something?

 

Very callous behaviour from people Roy expect to be better and more mindful of the situation.

 

 

[lcfcell]

5 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Not a good look at all .

 

Did they think the poor lad was suddenly going to leap up and escape or something?

 

Very callous behaviour from people Roy expect to be better and more mindful of the situation.

 

 

Terrified of being called racist so they let a young lad die. Let’s call it for what it is. 

 

[foxfanazer]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Under the criminal justice act Sikhs are allowed to carry it though? And one of the reasons they do so, is to protect themselves. If they use it as a form of aggression or violence without being attacked they they'd rightly be arrested. 

I apologise for my ignorance as I never knew about this but why do Sikhs in particular have special dispensation to carry a weapon for self defense? Or are there other ethnic groups that also are allowed this?

 

Again I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I've always been of the impression that Sikhs in this country are largely accepted even by some bigots. Their contributions to the cause in the world wars probably contributes to this. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Under the criminal justice act Sikhs are allowed to carry it though? And one of the reasons they do so, is to protect themselves. If they use it as a form of aggression or violence without being attacked they they'd rightly be arrested. 

 

10 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

I apologise for my ignorance as I never knew about this but why do Sikhs in particular have special dispensation to carry a weapon for self defense? Or are there other ethnic groups that also are allowed this?

 

Again I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I've always been of the impression that Sikhs in this country are largely accepted even by some bigots. Their contributions to the cause in the world wars probably contributes to this. 

If they can show they are for traditional religious services, NOT for 'self defence'.

[st albans fox]

9 hours ago, StanSP said:

I hope not. 

 

How many attacks with kirpans have there actually been? 

 

It's chasing a problem that isn't actually there (in terms of kirpans). 

 

Knife crime is obviously a thing and crackdown needs to continue in reducing it. 

 

But Sikhs have been allowed to carry kirpans for decades now on the streets. Why is it an issue now? Because it was misquoted from the trial that he used it, which was incorrect? 

 

Any responsible Sikh person knows they only use it in self defence or as protection if they are attacked. And for the most part, you'd probably find an overwhelming majority of Sikhs a) condemn what this vile man did to Henry and b) use their kirpan as it is intended. 

I think it will become an issue now because there is another video of this person carrying a weapon of some kind (I assume a kirpan but I’m no expert) whilst dressed in ceremonial garb and threatening the public. Obviously he totally lets down his religion. Up until this point, Sikhs have been carried their Kirpans here with pride and without an incident where they have been used to attack (unless in self defence).  however, some people will wonder if carrying a bladed weapon for self defence is acceptable for one group when it isn’t for others. 

I see above that self defence is not a reason for carrying 

so it’s purely ceremonial religious reasons. is there any way that the Kirpan can be secured so it couldn’t be taken from someone wearing it and used by someone else ???
 

Edited Tuesday at 07:33 by st albans fox

[Stevosevic]

52 minutes ago, lcfcell said:

Terrified of being called racist so they let a young lad die. Let’s call it for what it is. 

 

That’s precisely it. It’s something that has creeped in to society and become a norm.

 

Everyone is petrified of being called racist and in this case it led police officers to automatically assume a side before investigating or act impartially. 
 

 

[fox_up_north]

Don't see why those coppers shouldn't face charges on negligence. The fear of being called racist should not overrule your duty. 

 

People of all skin types commit crime. Your duty is to prevent loss of life, in the moment. Even IF Harry was the attacker, how does leaving him visibly bleeding help your case against him? I'm sure a defence solicitor would have had a field day with that. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Don't see why those coppers shouldn't face charges on negligence. The fear of being called racist should not overrule your duty. 

 

People of all skin types commit crime. Your duty is to prevent loss of life, in the moment. Even IF Harry was the attacker, how does leaving him visibly bleeding help your case against him? I'm sure a defence solicitor would have had a field day with that. 

Key two sentences, there.

[bovril]

22 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Don't see why those coppers shouldn't face charges on negligence. The fear of being called racist should not overrule your duty. 

 

People of all skin types commit crime. Your duty is to prevent loss of life, in the moment. Even IF Harry was the attacker, how does leaving him visibly bleeding help your case against him? I'm sure a defence solicitor would have had a field day with that. 

I was going to say. Haven't read much about the case outside of the main BBC report and I'm not going to watch the video so maybe I'm missing something, but even if he had attacked the other guy how the **** did they neglect to help him in that moment? 

[Durnerz]

It’s disgusting and knife crime continues to flow rampantly. When are the police and government going to implement stop and search procedures and properly crack down on this? 
 

It seems that only when it happens abroad that KS is keen to show he’s doing something proactive (see George Floyd). 

Edited Tuesday at 08:29 by Durnerz

[fox_up_north]

8 minutes ago, bovril said:

I was going to say. Haven't read much about the case outside of the main BBC report and I'm not going to watch the video so maybe I'm missing something, but even if he had attacked the other guy how the **** did they neglect to help him in that moment? 

I've seen the transcript. He literally tells the police he's been stabbed and the male officer says he hasn't. 

[Jon the Hat]

As an Atheist I don't see any religion justifying any kind of special treatment or carrying any kind of weapon under the law.  If it is required by their belief, I am sure they could carry a blunt non pointy blade.  Generally speaking we do not allow people to carry weapons in self-defence, so Sikhs should be no exception.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, fox_up_north said:

I've seen the transcript. He literally tells the police he's been stabbed and the male officer says he hasn't. 

They showed more concern for the murderer's accusation of racist behaviour than of the victim staying he had been stabbed.  Now I am no expert in these things, but I do think that of the two assertions the one about being stabbed might be a slightly higher priority for investigation in the moment by a trained officer of the law.

[StanSP]

The guy didn't even use his kirpan for this offence. 

 

Staggering now everyone is bothered about Sikhs carrying one even though it wasn't even used. 

 

[Stevosevic]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

They showed more concern for the murderer's accusation of racist behaviour than of the victim staying he had been stabbed.  Now I am no expert in these things, but I do think that of the two assertions the one about being stabbed might be a slightly higher priority for investigation in the moment by a trained officer of the law.

Yep. It’s outrageous. And we all know why it happened. 

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

is there any way that the Kirpan can be secured so it couldn’t be taken from someone wearing it and used by someone else ???

They usually are in a sheath and strapped around/over the shoulder if one is being carried. 

 

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

Again I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I've always been of the impression that Sikhs in this country are largely accepted even by some bigots. Their contributions to the cause in the world wars probably contributes to this. 

They are. But generally this offence and incident (as obviously tragic as it is) feeds into the undertones and narrative that people are now believing in (around skin colour). 

Sikhs generally are and have been accepted. 

 

The WW point is interesting as millions of British Indians, Muslims and Sikhs helped the UK. That point is relied on less and less these days with how divisive society has become. Contributions don't really seem to matter any more.