Darren Motsi

[BKLFox]

@dmayne7 @honeybradger

 

Both your answer contradict your original statements of how poorly our youngsters are managed by saying” let’s put it into context..” & go on about being at PL Champions & wages.

 

Our youngsters will move to the likes of Liverpool, Man C etc not because they are not getting game time or see/being shown a career path but because it is Liverpool, Man C etc simple as & very little we can do.

 

We have some very good young players who are alerting the attention of the biggest clubs which suggests something is being done right at Seagrave despite a lot of negatives to the contrary, but at the same time let’s not kid ourselves thinking we have the next Wayne Rooney down there.

 

It’s a different world now & a lot of these kids believe they have made it after a mere suggestion of recognition & would prefer to carry the celebrity of being on the books of those clubs without kicking a 1st team ball.

Imagine what a night out would look like for 6 young lads on the books of Liverpool & 6 from Rochdale’s academy and which group would say “..do you know who I am…” the 1st.

 

Maybe I’m old school and believe SAF was correct in his management of the class of 92, keeping your head down, putting in the graft not thinking about the money etc etc and telling them if after that they make it then they will reap the rewards, today a lot of kids want to get from A to B before they are ready but good luck to them.

 

Monga currently has a higher MV than Nyoni who has spent 3yrs in with the PL Champions so it can be done by treading a lower path.

If Monga, or any of them stay, and rip up Lge 1 next season and Nyoni gets another 7 games I wonder who will be talked about more & leap ahead?

 

The long and short of it is that its those big clubs coming for them and nothing you can do to hold them, conversations different if we were talking about Nyoni playing the equivalent of 7 games in 3yrs after jumping from our academy to say West Ham’s.

 

 

[dmayne7]

13 hours ago, BKLFox said:

@dmayne7 @honeybradger

 

Both your answer contradict your original statements of how poorly our youngsters are managed by saying” let’s put it into context..” & go on about being at PL Champions & wages.

 

Our youngsters will move to the likes of Liverpool, Man C etc not because they are not getting game time or see/being shown a career path but because it is Liverpool, Man C etc simple as & very little we can do.

 

We have some very good young players who are alerting the attention of the biggest clubs which suggests something is being done right at Seagrave despite a lot of negatives to the contrary, but at the same time let’s not kid ourselves thinking we have the next Wayne Rooney down there.

 

It’s a different world now & a lot of these kids believe they have made it after a mere suggestion of recognition & would prefer to carry the celebrity of being on the books of those clubs without kicking a 1st team ball.

Imagine what a night out would look like for 6 young lads on the books of Liverpool & 6 from Rochdale’s academy and which group would say “..do you know who I am…” the 1st.

 

Maybe I’m old school and believe SAF was correct in his management of the class of 92, keeping your head down, putting in the graft not thinking about the money etc etc and telling them if after that they make it then they will reap the rewards, today a lot of kids want to get from A to B before they are ready but good luck to them.

 

Monga currently has a higher MV than Nyoni who has spent 3yrs in with the PL Champions so it can be done by treading a lower path.

If Monga, or any of them stay, and rip up Lge 1 next season and Nyoni gets another 7 games I wonder who will be talked about more & leap ahead?

 

The long and short of it is that its those big clubs coming for them and nothing you can do to hold them, conversations different if we were talking about Nyoni playing the equivalent of 7 games in 3yrs after jumping from our academy to say West Ham’s.

 

 

Eh? Not trying to be confrontational but I'm genuinely perplexed as to how I've contradicted myself. We're talking about how poorly we manage our young players and their development, so after you sarcastically replied to me, I then said you need some context to comparing Nyoni's appearances to Monga's and Page's. I gave you said context?

 

You're trying to compare Apples and Oranges, in terms of thinking that the for it to be equally good for the development of a player, they have to play the exact same minutes regardless of the size of club. That doesn't wash. Nyoni has played 13 times for the PL champions who have a world cup winner in the midfield for example, whereas Page has been overlooked for the likes of Winks and Soumare. In his case, you think he's been well treated after playing well, to be cast aside for a guy who doesn't want to be here and has shown disrespect to his club and the supporters? That's rhetorical by the way, because it's crap. This is after it was made very public that we would be relying on the young players, but we haven't. So again, failed them in that regard.

 

And you make out that we don't have great young players but Monga is a generational talent. I'm not saying he will necessarily fulfil the promise he has but he was talked about many places a good couple of years ago. Because of how badly he's been managed, his stock has absolutely fallen. So if he has an ok season in L1 (where there aren't any guarantees he'll play loads based on history), his stock will fall further. He's got to have a very good season next year to keep the hype. If he was at Man City and spent a year in their under 21's, his stock would probably be the same (guarantee he'd play at least a game or 2 there). And that's the problem with the scenario you presented, they have to tear it up 2 levels below where they want to be.

 

But the original point still comes back to how we develop players. We are dreadful at it. How many times to we play younger players in the cup? Or give cameos to youngsters? Basically never. 2 of the better academy products in recent years didn't make their breakthrough until 20+ (Barnes and KDH). KDH, was sheer luck on our part as he wasn't considered god enough. I looked at Man City this year and they've played 7 academy players, 20 or under. How many times have we ever done that? These lads are getting some exposure at the biggest clubs in the land and we're not even able to give Aluko more than a couple of mins. What about Evans when we desperately needed a wide player/striker? Hutchinson. Instead we continue to pick these crap senior pros and unfortunately they'll still be a few next year.

 

I'm basically repeating what I already said, but the gist of it is that history suggests we don't  give young players much of an opportunity. And unfortunately, you go to a big club and things don't work out, you'll still end up where you started, whereas you fail here, and you're further back.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with you that IF we would actually play these youngsters, they'd be better off here and I wish that academies across the country were protected from bigger clubs (I include ourselves when we've stolen players).

 

Interestingly, I had a quick check to see how many players had made their debut here and gone on to play for England. I counted 9 (may be more). In 142 years, that is absolutely pathetic for a club of this size. And that's got a few from over 100 years ago who had 1 cap, that may not even show up in the official England records.

[Claudio Fannieri]

For me this is the final nail in the Rudkin coffin, there is nothing to base any case of defence of him, the academy and production line of talent coming through was the only shining light of his ongoing tenure here. 
 

This season has even managed to destroy that, we hire a manager in Cifuentes who seemed happy to blood and include players like Monga, Page, Aluko etc but clearly was given the remit to include the experienced players we were trying to bin off or make use of them rather than let them rot…….. it has had catastrophic consequences, as surprise surprise they let the club down time and time again resulting in relegation and a bunch of talented academy players not utilised. Massive missed opportunity this season and could have massive repercussions on our ability to attract and retain top academy talent. 
 

Another example of our complete lack of strategy, no point having state of art facilities, top class academy talent but no clear, defined pathway to the 1st team. Just like our player and managerial recruitment our academy strategy is erratic, chaotic and a complete and utter mess. 

[DezFox]

It may have passed now. We have a real chance here to change our entire strategy and double down in seagrave.
 

You could really make it an academy club, show that there is a path for first team football. Buy the best youth from smaller teams like what happens to us and give them a chance. This means more will come and more will stay.  
 

It also makes financial sense as well as using the facilities we have got.

 

If motsi saw a clear path to first team he might think twice. If he think twice, others will.

 

It’s not always about money, it about environment. I know not in our level but take Bellingham for example. He could have gone to any prem team but chose dortmund, why? Becuase he knew there would be a clear path from how they operate and now he is at Madrid. Why couldn’t we do something like the, albeit on a much smaller scale. 

 

 

 Rowett has been a disaster for the club long term, it may be too late but it could be turned around. Just double down, make it a USP. But for every 3 youth players with potential you buy and bring to seagrave, you only need one to make it and your in profit.
 

the current PSR framework encourages selling academy products so let’s, for once make it work to our advantage. We have done the hard work by building an acedmy and training ground that others would dream of. ****ing use it. 

[Chelmofox]

4 minutes ago, DezFox said:

It may have passed now. We have a real chance here to change our entire strategy and double down in seagrave.
 

You could really make it an academy club, show that there is a path for first team football. Buy the best youth from smaller teams like what happens to us and give them a chance. This means more will come and more will stay.  
 

It also makes financial sense as well as using the facilities we have got.

 

If motsi saw a clear path to first team he might think twice. If he think twice, others will.

Why would the best want to come when their max pathway is League 1 football? At the end of the day the swimming pools and golf courses dont matter.  Top half Championship teams are a better proposition than us. As a kid you have one shot at this, and even if we only spend 3 seasons in L1 you've probably let you best opportunities go. 

 

Long term strategy of Seagrave and the academy are now up in the air. Our best option to to leverage the talent we have, in the hope that some of better ones are going to be able to stay for at least a year. With Motsi, we are going to have to cut our losses. He wont be ready for the first team, and his pathway is largely ruined. Anyone around that age will be better off somewhere else. 

 

Our hope needs to be that our current crop can step up (Braybrooke / Nelson / Evans and co), and the generation after Motsi can be convinced to stay and we sort our sh1t out.

 

Massive wasted opportunity.

[dmayne7]

2 hours ago, DezFox said:

It may have passed now. We have a real chance here to change our entire strategy and double down in seagrave.
 

You could really make it an academy club, show that there is a path for first team football. Buy the best youth from smaller teams like what happens to us and give them a chance. This means more will come and more will stay.  
 

It also makes financial sense as well as using the facilities we have got.

 

If motsi saw a clear path to first team he might think twice. If he think twice, others will.

 

It’s not always about money, it about environment. I know not in our level but take Bellingham for example. He could have gone to any prem team but chose dortmund, why? Becuase he knew there would be a clear path from how they operate and now he is at Madrid. Why couldn’t we do something like the, albeit on a much smaller scale. 

 

 

 Rowett has been a disaster for the club long term, it may be too late but it could be turned around. Just double down, make it a USP. But for every 3 youth players with potential you buy and bring to seagrave, you only need one to make it and your in profit.
 

the current PSR framework encourages selling academy products so let’s, for once make it work to our advantage. We have done the hard work by building an acedmy and training ground that others would dream of. ****ing use it. 

We had a chance to do that this summer and we didn't. There is so rarely a pathway for players unless they get lucky with loans (which we're traditionally bad at sorting). Rowett has compounded if but not like Marti was exactly great with the game time given to the younger guys. Nelson and Aluko should have been heavily involved from the start.

 

And choosing Dortmund is hardly like choosing us over a Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal. They've been to multiple champions League finals in their history (and won it)

[DezFox]

56 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

We had a chance to do that this summer and we didn't. There is so rarely a pathway for players unless they get lucky with loans (which we're traditionally bad at sorting). Rowett has compounded if but not like Marti was exactly great with the game time given to the younger guys. Nelson and Aluko should have been heavily involved from the start.

 

And choosing Dortmund is hardly like choosing us over a Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal. They've been to multiple champions League finals in their history (and won it)

Yeah I agree, it’s not just rowett, other have been equally as damaging. 
 

I was not comparing us at all if you read it. He chose a clear path to first team foootball with a club that are renowned for doing so. It doesn’t matter what level you are, you can still be known for doing it. 

[filbertway]

5 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Why would the best want to come when their max pathway is League 1 football? At the end of the day the swimming pools and golf courses dont matter.  Top half Championship teams are a better proposition than us. As a kid you have one shot at this, and even if we only spend 3 seasons in L1 you've probably let you best opportunities go. 

 

Long term strategy of Seagrave and the academy are now up in the air. Our best option to to leverage the talent we have, in the hope that some of better ones are going to be able to stay for at least a year. With Motsi, we are going to have to cut our losses. He wont be ready for the first team, and his pathway is largely ruined. Anyone around that age will be better off somewhere else. 

 

Our hope needs to be that our current crop can step up (Braybrooke / Nelson / Evans and co), and the generation after Motsi can be convinced to stay and we sort our sh1t out.

 

Massive wasted opportunity.

I think getting first team football at league one level and doing well will naturally get interest from other clubs. Obviously it'd rely on us 1) Actually giving the players consistent game time and 2) accepting that our role is basically a feeder club. If you can show that you'll give players a chance to develop and will happily sell them should the right offer come in then in theory it would be an excellent stepping stone for talented 17-19 year olds.

 

Unfortunately, regardless of the league or how we're doing in the league, there always seems to be an excuse to favour experience. Even when that experience often times let's us down anyway.

[dmayne7]

2 hours ago, DezFox said:

Yeah I agree, it’s not just rowett, other have been equally as damaging. 
 

I was not comparing us at all if you read it. He chose a clear path to first team foootball with a club that are renowned for doing so. It doesn’t matter what level you are, you can still be known for doing it. 

No I agree we should do that. It's just that we had a chance to do that (and we sort of did to some extent when we were successful) but it feels largely like it's gone now. 

[Sly]

Every player will have a different view.

 

Easier to break into a League 1 team, than say a bottom half Premier League team. 
 

Would you rather train at Seagrave, or Stoke? 
 

Do you like coaches? Coaching quality? 
 

Education quality? 
 

Does the academy have better players in the system, which block your path to the first team? 
 

Will I be loaned out? 
 

Youth turnover? 
 

Welfare support? 
 

Injury and wellbeing support? 
 

Nutrition and health support and education? 
 

Communication and growth? 
 

Travel / rest of family impact? 
 

 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Sly said:

Every player will have a different view.

 

Easier to break into a League 1 team, than say a bottom half Premier League team. 
 

Would you rather train at Seagrave, or Stoke? 
 

Do you like coaches? Coaching quality? 
 

Education quality? 
 

Does the academy have better players in the system, which block your path to the first team? 
 

Will I be loaned out? 
 

Youth turnover? 
 

Welfare support? 
 

Injury and wellbeing support? 
 

Nutrition and health support and education? 
 

Communication and growth? 
 

Travel / rest of family impact? 
 

You missed ‘money’

sadly that will be top of most lists 

 

Obvs players can’t be rewarded pre 17 y o but there are ways around this 

[wardyfox86]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

You missed ‘money’

sadly that will be top of most lists 

 

Obvs players can’t be rewarded pre 17 y o but there are ways around this 

There's alot of future contracts and deals that could be ruined by a poor choice at 17/18, but most don't have that foresight and I'd argue we could be that poor choice at the moment.

[AyewJoking]

On 25/04/2026 at 11:27, coolhandfox said:

You fail at Liverpool you still get pick up at a decent level.

[Gillies Apprentice]

 

[Tielemans63]

Liverpool nicking one of our best talents yet again.

 

[honeybradger]

I genuinely believe the lack of game time for young players last season was worse for the club than relegation itself.

 

It was the best opportunity to flush the rubbish and bring back some direction into the team and we wasted it. Now young players are looking at their prospects here and realising that older players will always be prioritised.

[Foxes96]

Oh f*ck off Liverpool. Should refuse to deal with them with how they’ve handled academy signings 

Edited Sunday at 12:37 by Foxes96
Edit to say we unlikely had any say in this however

[Benji]

Nice to see our fantastic facilities returning an investment for other clubs.

[Nalis]

There needs to be a fairer system when it comes to bigger clubs poaching academy talent

[DezFox]

There is no pathway for youth at this horrible club. Good for him. 

[lcfc_forever]

16 minutes ago, Foxes96 said:

Oh f*ck off Liverpool. Should refuse to deal with them with how they’ve handled academy signings 

I think @ramadaone said that’s what the club has done already after Nyoni left similarly. 

[Pita]

A club with no manager a useless leadership what do we expect 

[Chelmofox]

24 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

I genuinely believe the lack of game time for young players last season was worse for the club than relegation itself.

 

It was the best opportunity to flush the rubbish and bring back some direction into the team and we wasted it. Now young players are looking at their prospects here and realising that older players will always be prioritised.

Getting relegated is the bigger problem. A 15 year old who isnt ready yet is not getting first team mins in a relegation battle.  

 

Being a L1 club, there is no pathway for them anymore, as they have to break the first team to feature in L1. When he is ready, Motsi will get loans and it may be L1, and if he does well he they can bring him back.

[Brizzle Fox]

Seagrave premium.

[hejammy]

Honestly, sometimes i do think what's the point of Seagrave. We have this wonderful training centre to raise the best talent and then it just gets poached from us. It's like we're a subcontract training facility for the elite clubs.