Manchester City Found Guilty Of Almost All Charges

[Pliskin]

This will end the EPL as we know it. 

[Sly]

48 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

This will end the EPL as we know it. 

That might not be a bad thing, on a domestic sporting level at least.

 

The best thing for football in this country would be a massive reset, then work toward a salary cap and “X” amount of players that are non EU based in 5 years time etc

 

However, internationally, this would be a disaster, as the likes of PSG, Madrid, Barca etc would effectively then dominate with the amounts of surplus money they’d have. It would be similar to the situation in Rugby, where everyone went abroad.

 

[Ric Flair]

34 minutes ago, Sly said:

That might not be a bad thing, on a domestic sporting level at least.

 

The best thing for football in this country would be a massive reset, then work toward a salary cap and “X” amount of players that are non EU based in 5 years time etc

 

However, internationally, this would be a disaster, as the likes of PSG, Madrid, Barca etc would effectively then dominate with the amounts of surplus money they’d have. It would be similar to the situation in Rugby, where everyone went abroad.

 

Just allow owner investment if they can prove they have the funds to cover it. All has to be front loaded. 

 

There's no perfect system for this but I don't agree with salary caps and nor do I particularly agree with a complete level playing field but the opportunity to challenge without restriction of the elite and those most powerful should not be curtailed under a cloak of pretended financial safeguarding. 

[Sly]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Just allow owner investment if they can prove they have the funds to cover it. All has to be front loaded. 

 

There's no perfect system for this but I don't agree with salary caps and nor do I particularly agree with a complete level playing field but the opportunity to challenge without restriction of the elite and those most powerful should not be curtailed under a cloak of pretended financial safeguarding. 

Yes, that’s the other option I guess. 
 

At the moment, we are basically in a situation that forces this type of behaviour. 

[Number 6]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Just allow owner investment if they can prove they have the funds to cover it. All has to be front loaded. 

 

There's no perfect system for this but I don't agree with salary caps and nor do I particularly agree with a complete level playing field but the opportunity to challenge without restriction of the elite and those most powerful should not be curtailed under a cloak of pretended financial safeguarding. 

Yeh the framing never made sense. If Newcastle owners input the fee and total wage value of a contract into the club, then how could any signings under that structure put the club in financial trouble.

[The Year Of The Fox]

12 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

Fvck off Burnham. 

Careful 

 

You’ll upset the clique in here 

[foxfanazer]

28 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Just allow owner investment if they can prove they have the funds to cover it. All has to be front loaded. 

 

There's no perfect system for this but I don't agree with salary caps and nor do I particularly agree with a complete level playing field but the opportunity to challenge without restriction of the elite and those most powerful should not be curtailed under a cloak of pretended financial safeguarding. 

Agreed. Owners should have to put some money into a protected account that ensures the clubs future is safe even if their ownership fails for whatever reason. Whether they do that at the start of their ownership or they pay a percentage of any money spent in a window or whatever 

 

But framing this PSR bollocks as "protecting the clubs" is clearly bullshit and I think most people see through it now

[The Doctor]

14 hours ago, em9999 said:

Burnham can keep out of ut too who cares what a unelected priminister thinks 

he's as elected as every other prime minister - we don't vote for the prime minister, parties vote for their leaders, and constituencies vote for their MPs...

 

ike he's wrong and this is the problem with de facto state ownership of clubs, disciplinary actions become diplomatic incidents, but we can make that criticism without resorting to the yankification of politics

[FosseSpark]

Fine to same value as the prize money achieved creating a pot for the Premier League to pay damages to clubs impacted by the cheating ie lost revenue from champs league qualification (ahem).

Forced sale

Bans for the owners / execs from involvement in football

Any relevant criminal proceedings. Surely fraudulent obtaining income is criminal at some level?

Expulsion from EPL/EFL into National League for 2027/28 season.

 

Premier League fans should boycott Man City games for remainder of season or protest in the strongest possible way so that Abu Dhabi owners want rid of the terrible PR

 

 

[Ric Flair]

45 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Agreed. Owners should have to put some money into a protected account that ensures the clubs future is safe even if their ownership fails for whatever reason. Whether they do that at the start of their ownership or they pay a percentage of any money spent in a window or whatever 

 

But framing this PSR bollocks as "protecting the clubs" is clearly bullshit and I think most people see through it now

Especially as all football debt has to be paid back 100% and so a club that fails to do so will in essence be liquidated if they cannot find a buyer that will honour that. However, the footballing leagues will hand down punishments that lead to this very possibility so they cannot claim these rules are there to protect the very thing. But further reinforces the proof of funds being the kicker and would be far more authentic than what the current rules create.

[Rubbersoul]

Is this a good time to say I never found what Pep did there impressive 

Edited 8 hours ago by Rubbersoul

[shen]

Obviously there are multiple discussions to be had after all of this. 

Firstly, what are the appropriate sanctions? I think the number, severity and malice of these transgressions needs heavy sanctioning to make it proportional to sanctions handed out to other clubs. If they have been found to criminal transgressions, then it's another matter on top. I don't even know what the most severe sanctions available to the PL are (expulsion probably?) and if they are sufficient. Obviously it feels like the owners should bear the punishment, but I cannot see the club escaping collateral damage either way. 

Secondly, that leads on to the discussion on FFP/PSR/SCR and whether these measures are fit for purpose. I think we can all agree they are often missing their intended target and they are essentially putting a glass ceiling on owners/clubs that have genuine ambitions and means to fund them. It's not in PL's or the EFL's interest to reduce investment in their membership clubs - there is absolutely a case to be made that the PL profited from Man City's actions (can the PL be punished for this by UEFA?) - but there should be an intention to keep things competitive in their leagues. Other measures like spending and salary caps will also have downsides (i.e. limiting growth of the sport/league, weakening the PL as star players seek better salaries elsewhere), so I don't think that there is a golden solution that will please all parties. And whose interests are most important? The owners, the fans, the players, the staff, the 'middle-men' etc?

Thirdly, how does the PL move forward from this and how is credibility restored? I imagine trust from it's members has eroded a lot from all the transgressions made by Chelsea, Everton, Forest, Man City, even us. That's not even to mention the fans' trust. Can and will football implode at some point or fans so hooked on their addictions that they will turn a blind eye to the corruption? The way football in general has ballooned globally tells me that the average football consumer doesn't really mind or care about these things and will continue to pay to watch it at the stadium or via streaming.

[Manwell Pablo]

10 hours ago, Corky said:

It has barely done us any good since so not the greatest sacrifice.

Not the point is it.

[shen]

7 minutes ago, Rubbersoul said:

Is this a good time to say I never found what Pep did there impressive 

Besides Liverpool, no-one in the PL came close to his teams. He made many managers shift their tactical approach, so while you may not have been impressed, his influence has been profound.

[Wortho]

16 minutes ago, shen said:

Besides Liverpool, no-one in the PL came close to his teams. He made many managers shift their tactical approach, so while you may not have been impressed, his influence has been profound.

Pep is the most successful manager and coach probably ever.

[Trav Le Bleu]

44 minutes ago, Rubbersoul said:

Is this a good time to say I never found what Pep did there impressive 

Not especially no.

 

If you've got enough money, everyone knows who the best players are. Can't think of any Man city signing in recent years who was a rough diamond that got polished - they get them already polished.

[Clogger_]

I find it hard to do anything other than shrug my shoulders. Nothing here we didn't all know already: English football is riddled with dodgy money. PL football barely feels like sport to me

 

Doubly numbed by the sense that *we've* been culpable in our own pathetic and small-time way. Why get worked up about others when we can't get our own house in order

Edited 7 hours ago by Clogger_

[Chelmofox]

2 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Not especially no.

 

If you've got enough money, everyone knows who the best players are. Can't think of any Man city signing in recent years who was a rough diamond that got polished - they get them already polished.

And then ironically Man City usually had to give them a year to get up to speed with Pep ball.

 

Although, what would you call Jack Grealish? Over 100m, a huge Salary,  and never hit the ground running.

[Aus Fox]

30 minutes ago, Wortho said:

Pep is the most successful manager and coach probably ever.

All whilst cheating?? I think this puts a huge astrix next to his claim to be the most successful ever? 

[Finnegan]

4 hours ago, Pliskin said:

This will end the EPL as we know it. 

 

It won't though will it. 

 

The punishment will be benign, something else will distract everybody in the global news cycle and we'll all move on. 

 

[shen]

17 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

To an extent.

 

There was no rule against it back then though, had this conversation in the office as I have the pleasure of working in Manc and there's a City Fan and a Blackburn fan and the Jack Walker era got bought up. If there's a rule you need to stick to it, no such rule for Blackburn so it's not a fair yard stick (read Man U).

 

It is, for that reason though, I am personally an endorser of them losing their trophies. They were won in terms of Sport fairly on a field even if that was by a squad of players who wouldn't have played together had FFP been hit, the advantage is purely structural, it is therefore not comparable to the Calcipoli incident. 

 

The biggest problem for the sport is these rulings have in the long term proven to be the death of football and it's now a circus. There's no going back now as City will have the book thrown at them and you can't reverse the rules after you've crippled a club over them so we are stuck this FFP nonsense and now all of the private legal damages cases that come with it, and these rules don't even do what they were supposed to do, stop clubs making a mess of themeselves, as we've proven.

I think an issue is that we deem 'sporting', 'on the field' or in other words a fair contest, to be cut off from all other things, but it's intrinsically tied to so many factors and thus hardly ever fair.
Everything from weather, surface, support, finances and all that it entails, ball boys, referees, drugs/science etc., even the rules themselves, can and will offer 'sporting' advantages to teams. 
What we consider cheating and what we consider fair game is just highly subjective and frankly quite arbitrary. 

Finnegan feels that it's hypocritical that Keane talks about Man City's achievements being worthless, just because they broke rules in order to spend as much as Man Utd. Utd have benefited from a head start which they've maintained, in part, by these financial rules being put in place. In that sense, no 'sporting' advantage was gained over these established, rich clubs. I completely understand his argument. 

Now, rules are rules you argue, regardless of how obtuse they are. The clubs knew about them and broke them anyway. What good are rules if they're not adhered to? Any rule break is thus deemed a 'sporting' advantage. I completely understand this too. 

I personally feel this is too black or white in a world which is anything but. 'Bending' the rules (i.e. finding loopholes) is deemed acceptable, if morally/ethically reprehensible, which I don't agree with. Along with VAR, these financial rules are making the game more and more a 'legal' matter rather than a sporting one. The sport seems to strive to make things more fair and correct by creating all these frameworks, but instead it just exposes how wholly inadequate they and probably how impossible it is to do.

 

[Finnegan]

8 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

All whilst cheating?? I think this puts a huge astrix next to his claim to be the most successful ever? 

 

He didn't cheat though did he? His club broke a bunch of accountancy rules imposed by the league. He just went out and coached a squad he was given. It might be a squad his club wasn't allowed to afford and it might be a squad the other clubs couldn't compete much with but eh. 

 

Roman Abramovic spent eye watering amounts at Chelsea, out spent every on during their peak and broke various rules numerous times, getting transfer bans and being accused of tapping up and all sorts. 

 

Nobody's ever questioned that Jose Mourinho and his team were worthy league winners though? 

 

I don't really have much patience for people determined to try and downplay Pep's ability as a coach. They seem like flat earthers or vaxine deniers to me. His talent is just objective fact, there's nothing to argue about. 

 

People that don't like his style and think it's ruined modern football I can completely understand. But there's not really an asterisk next to his name is there, I'm sorry, that's daft. 

 

Are you next going to suggest that Erling Haaland or Kevin De Bruyne aren't or weren't generational talents because they're playing for a team whose lawyers and accountants fudged the books? Come on. 

 

[Samilktray]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

He didn't cheat though did he? His club broke a bunch of accountancy rules imposed by the league. He just went out and coached a squad he was given. It might be a squad his club wasn't allowed to afford and it might be a squad the other clubs couldn't compete much with but eh. 

 

Roman Abramovic spent eye watering amounts at Chelsea, out spent every on during their peak and broke various rules numerous times, getting transfer bans and being accused of tapping up and all sorts. 

 

Nobody's ever questioned that Jose Mourinho and his team were worthy league winners though? 

 

I don't really have much patience for people determined to try and downplay Pep's ability as a coach. They seem like flat earthers or vaxine deniers to me. His talent is just objective fact, there's nothing to argue about. 

 

People that don't like his style and think it's ruined modern football I can completely understand. But there's not really an asterisk next to his name is there, I'm sorry, that's daft. 

 

Are you next going to suggest that Erling Haaland or Kevin De Bruyne aren't or weren't generational talents because they're playing for a team whose lawyers and accountants fudged the books? Come on. 

 

Does make you question whether KDB could actually pass the ball like that if they weren't cooking the books 

Edited 7 hours ago by Samilktray

[The Year Of The Fox]

3 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Careful 

 

You’ll upset the clique in here 

End up reported and banned 

[Samilktray]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

End up reported and banned 

Generally speaking if you don't post like an idiot you won't end up reported or banned pal, very simple imo