Legalise cannabis?

[Webbo]

 

 

What justification can you "ban fans" provide for the State to send armed men to kick down an adult's door and send them to jail if that adult chooses, without harming or influencing anyone else, to enjoy altered states of mind? 

 

 

a) When was the last time the state sent armed men to kick down a door for someone smoking/ingesting cannabis, let alone jail them?

b) You do harm/influence others when you take drugs. The consequences extend to your friends, family, colleagues and society at large if you cause yourself mental or physical harm.

 

Normally I'd agree about govt butting out of people's lives, in this case though I think it's right that they do. I respect your view though.

Edited 10 April 2015 by Webbo

[Benguin]

You get the feeling that a lot of those who want to maintain a cannabis ban have simply not thought about the ethics of banning a substance that people want to ingest in private, harming no one else, other than (potentially and yet to be proven) the person who ingests.

 

I've never had anal sex or gone sky diving. Both could be lethal, I've heard. Many people enjoy them, I've heard, despite their occasional unfortunate consequences.

 

Should those activities be banned, too, Nanny Staters?

 

What justification can you "ban fans" provide for the State to send armed men to kick down an adult's door and send them to jail if that adult chooses, without harming or influencing anyone else, to enjoy altered states of mind? 

 

You can't, not without invoking notions of "sin". 

 

What goes on between a person's ears should be the business of that person and not the State.

 

On this issue, the law in the UK is an ass.

 

 

As Webbo said above it affects family (I know on a personal level) and also the public in general. The health risks will obviously impose costs to the NHS.

 

On a separate note your logic is that people should be allowed to do anything as long as it only harms themselves? Would you legalise all the other drugs like heroine etc? What about suicide and self harmers? Should we leave them to it?

 

 

Wat.  You can't just make a crazy outlandish claim like that without going into any detail on his condition, the timeline of symptom development, and the correlation of that with his smoking history - in short, actual facts beyond the most bizarre anecdotal claim I've heard about cannabis's negative impact on health.

 

I knew a girl who was on medication for multiple psychoses - including hearing voices - who said that cannabis could exacerbate the voice hearing issue if she smoked it at the same time as taking her meds, but never have I heard it claimed by someone of previously sound mental health that cannabis makes them hear voices, let alone it leading them to be incapable of self-ambulation.  More info please you've definitely intrigued me.

 

The guy I know did have problems already, true. That being said the extent to which cannabis exaggerated his problems was huge.

[Carl the Llama]

The guy I know did have problems already, true. That being said the extent to which cannabis exaggerated his problems was huge.

This is just it, people with mental health problems really shouldn't smoke weed.  We know this quite categorically to be the case.  Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I believe that a society with a more relaxed view on this issue, and a more open dialogue with kids in their formative years (and society in general), would see less instances of people like your friend.  I don't think we should be looking to these worst case scenarios to justify banning something entirely.

[lavrentis]

Come on Lav, you're one of my favourite posters and come over as quite clever, but this isn't true and you must know you're kidding yourself saying this. 

 

It's a stimulant at the end of the day, and just like the rest it will provide cardiovascular problems eventually for an individual. 

 

i appreciate that man but come on man you ever been stoned ?

[Vacamion]

a) When was the last time the state sent armed men to kick down a door for someone smoking/ingesting cannabis, let alone jail them?

Sorry, you are right.

But try and grow a plant for your own use and they definitely will kick your door in and arrest you.

[Fox92]

i appreciate that man but come on man you ever been stoned ?

 

Suppose it depends how much someone smokes it. Like if you become dependent on it, it's not great thing. That can apply to them all though, which is what I was referring too.

[sphericalfox]

This is just it, people with mental health problems really shouldn't smoke weed.  We know this quite categorically to be the case.  Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I believe that a society with a more relaxed view on this issue, and a more open dialogue with kids in their formative years (and society in general), would see less instances of people like your friend.  I don't think we should be looking to these worst case scenarios to justify banning something entirely.

 

In actuality everyone suffers from some mental health problem or two. But like physical health, the variance of the severity, the acute or chronic (excuse the pun) nature of these and the impact on the person's life and the treatment or management of these will vary, from personal management, to little or long term medical intervention.

 

Mental health and understanding, in my view, is a area that is vastly missing both in schools and at home, which is a side topic to this conversation, but without knowing basic coping measures for addictive nature, or identifying mental health issues or prospective patterns at early stages, then intervention sadly can't be implemented, or those who are prone or are likely prone to issues can practice avoidance that exacerbate or trigger poor mental health, or at the least if they ignore these that they have some education with some coping measures. In the States, the taxing of cannabis, in all its forms, in some states is being reinvested in mental health education and this isn't just to combat the small minority of those who are affected by the adverse effects of cannabis, but to help educate and manage the vast array of mental health issues that exist. 

 

Whilst we arguably have a funded NHS which in theory should through existing taxation cover this, it is HUGELY underfunded, and anything that could actually help support this area of health would be greatly beneficial to ALL society. Regulating the market would also help manage the strains of skunk cannabis that pervade the black market which would help reduce harmful prospective affects on the small minority.

[Rincewind]

1 in 4 suffers from clinical depression or some sort of mental health issue.

[BrokenRecord]

1 in 4 suffers from clinical depression or some sort of mental health issue.

Is that because they smoke or do they smoke to deal with their issue in their way? Not suggesting that it's the correct way, just an important question IMO.

[sphericalfox]

Is that because they smoke or do they smoke to deal with their issue in their way? Not suggesting that it's the correct way, just an important question IMO.

 

I think Ken may have been talking about the general populous.

[Christoph]

You'll find lots of people who will say smoking weed has helped them through depression. Swings and round abouts. 

 

 

Weed should be illegal though. Look at the chaos that's happened around the world in places where weed is legal (Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Amsterdam, Uruguay)...chaos everywhere.

 

There must be so much time spent by the police dealing with grow houses and weed dealing when really they should be doing more important things. 

 

Where ever weed has been made legal it has made little to no impact on the community. And in some cases such as the USA, a positive impact from the generated tax income. If weed were legal here...the extra tax from it being sold would generate more then enough for the NHS to handle any extra burdens from people smoking weed. 

Edited 11 April 2015 by Christoph

[BrokenRecord]

I think Ken may have been talking about the general populous.

My apologies

[bovril]

Vacamion for PM.

[ozleicester]

I do wonder what has happened to all those people (particualrly in the US) that have been jailed for Marijuana crimes... now that its legal.

[MooseBreath]

On the subject of hearing voices, a girl I used to go out with was, before we met, a bit of a stoner. She would smoke most days. She started hearing voices telling her that everybody was watching her, even started thinking that people on the news were talking about her. One morning she tried to escape by without warning getting on a bus to Heathrow and flying to Australia. After a few days in a hostel with no weed she started feeling better. Came back, stopped smoking, all the voices went away.

I don't know if story's like that are enough to make me want cannabis to remain illegal or not, lots of people no doubt enjoy it with no ill effects, but it seems pretty clear that it can act as a trigger for some mental health conditions and until that's properly understood, I think it should probably remain illegal albeit with no punishment or criminal record for personal use.

[Buce]

a girl I used to go out with .....

One morning she tried to escape by without warning getting on a bus to Heathrow and flying to Australia....

No connection, obviously..

[MooseBreath]

No connection, obviously..

So it's quite alright for you to actually laugh about other people's mental health problems then? That's a slight departure from your hyper-sensitive comments in other threads.

Edited 11 April 2015 by MooseBreath

[Buce]

So it's quite alright for you to actually laugh about other people's mental health problems then? That's a slight departure from your hyper-sensitive comments in other threads.

The difference being she isn't posting on here after a suicide attempt.

And I'm mocking you, not her.

[MooseBreath]

The difference being she isn't posting on here after a suicide attempt.

And I'm mocking you, not her.

That's fine Buce. I'm not offended at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nice to see you showing your true colours to be honest. There is usually a nasty streak lurking beneath the surface of a lefty Edited 11 April 2015 by MooseBreath

[Buce]

That's fine Buce. I'm not offended at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nice to see you showing your true colours to be honest. There is usually a nasty streak lurking beneath the surface of a lefty

It must be the drugs, Moose.

Fvck it, after today's result I'd even hug you! COYB!

[sphericalfox]

That's fine Buce. I'm not offended at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nice to see you showing your true colours to be honest. There is usually a nasty streak lurking beneath the surface of a lefty

 

says the colossal **** of FT. 

[Buce]

That's fine Buce. I'm not offended at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nice to see you showing your true colours to be honest. There is usually a nasty streak lurking beneath the surface of a lefty

Well, well, Moose. You didn't edit that quick enough, did you? I just checked my email notification, and it was a very different post.

Maybe I should post it for you, and let the other FT'ers see what you really said...

[Steven]

That's fine Buce. I'm not offended at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nice to see you showing your true colours to be honest. There is usually a nasty streak lurking beneath the surface of a lefty

So you are left wing.

[MooseBreath]

Well, well, Moose. You didn't edit that quick enough, did you? I just checked my email notification, and it was a very different post.

Maybe I should post it for you, and let the other FT'ers see what you really said...

That's alright, Buce. I won't deny that your mockery of mental health problems suffered by someone I know of riled me a bit, but the forum is no place for personal tit for tat.

PM me your number and I'll give you a call if you want to have a chat about it.

[BoneDog]