Terry Robinson Officially Appointed Director of Football

[cc_star]

Where do you not understand "there is no money". Dickov22 will back me up.

You can't tell him, there is no grasp on FT to the lengths we have to goto, to move players on

[Dickov22]

Where do you not understand "there is no money". Dickov22 will back me up.

There is no money until we offload several high earners. It's been the same story for a while- Pearson had several targets in Jan but wasn't able to bid for them as there was NO MONEY. It's still the same.

Of course Sven didn't personally hand out contracts, but as manager of the club he had a lot of influence, just as Pearson does.

[indierich06]

He manages THE FOOTBALL, He doesn't manager THE FINANCES. THAT IS WHAT ANDREW NEVILLE'S JOB WAS. Football is unlike any other business. Hence why I said football people manage the football and business people manage the business. You think ex footballers (which many managers are) understand business and are involved in financial dealings? They have agents to negotiate their own contracts for god's sake. Why all of a sudden do you expect them to be financial experts as well as being good football managers?

 

He's not saying that Pearson negotiates contracts or that he handles the finances, he's simply saying that as the manager - the person who handles 'THE FOOTBALL' as you put it - he and his staff have got a much better idea of what a player is worth in terms of value and wages and it would be absolutely ridiculous to not consult a manager on what kind of fee or wages the club should be offering the player, how much would be too much - especially when the man handling the finances has got no experience in football at all.

 

To expect a money man with no experience in football to judge the value of a player and judge what kind of money he should be paid to just pluck these figures out of the air is a complete nonsense. It involves a collaborative effort all round from people at the club. No-one thinks the club just says to the manager 'here's a wage budget, here's a transfer budget - get on with it'.

 

It was clear when Sven was here that Neville had no idea how much was too much in terms of wages or transfer fees, and obviously Sven didn't have a clue either. If it was solely Neville's fault that these players were awarded these ridiculous contracts, due you honestly think he'd still be in a job? He'd have been sacked not long after Sven was.

[GingerrrFox]

He's not saying that Pearson negotiates contracts or that he handles the finances, he's simply saying that as the manager - the person who handles 'THE FOOTBALL' as you put it - he and his staff have got a much better idea of what a player is worth in terms of value and wages and it would be absolutely ridiculous to not consult a manager on what kind of fee or wages the club should be offering the player, how much would be too much - especially when the man handling the finances has got no experience in football at all.

 

To expect a money man with no experience in football to judge the value of a player and judge what kind of money he should be paid to just pluck these figures out of the air is a complete nonsense. It involves a collaborative effort all round from people at the club. No-one thinks the club just says to the manager 'here's a wage budget, here's a transfer budget - get on with it'.

 

It was clear when Sven was here that Neville had no idea how much was too much in terms of wages or transfer fees, and obviously Sven didn't have a clue either. If it was solely Neville's fault that these players were awarded these ridiculous contracts, due you honestly think he'd still be in a job? He'd have been sacked not long after Sven was.

 

My point was never that though my point was that people always place the blame on Sven as this money spending ogre and Nigel as the defender of the people. I like Nigel Pearson a lot more than Sven don't get me wrong but they were given two completely different briefs by the people in control of the finances. I said all along that Sven wasn't to blame for the money being dished out he just wanted the players he had chosen and the club did that.

[Bert]

My point was never that though my point was that people always place the blame on Sven as this money spending ogre and Nigel as the defender of the people. I like Nigel Pearson a lot more than Sven don't get me wrong but they were given two completely different briefs by the people in control of the finances. I said all along that Sven wasn't to blame for the money being dished out he just wanted the players he had chosen and the club did that.

But why was that? Because of the situation Sven got us into! Nigel's brief is sorting out Svens mess whilst trying to get us up.

Do you honestly believe Sven wouldn't know the type of wages his players would want?

[GingerrrFox]

But why was that? Because of the situation Sven got us into! Nigel's brief is sorting out Svens mess whilst trying to get us up.

 

Literally going round in circles now. The owners, the board and the ones negotiating deals are more to blame than Sven. Your telling me they couldn't have got the majority of the players we signed cheaper if they hadn't thrown the money about so ridiculously? Fact is everyone blames Sven but not people still at the club who were more involved in those dealings for the mess. The club was on a spending spree to get to the Premiership, Sven just gets the whole blame for picking the players.

[Raw Dykes]

So Neville and the people behind the scenes have been told to do nothing whilst Pearson has come back. Pearson and Sven had two different briefs. Sven was we have the money get us to the Premiership, that failed and the club have to recover for FFP and Pearson's brief is different. He has to make sacrifices in the playing squad and move players he may necessarily want but can't keep because of their cost and he is now restricted in the transfer market. You think if Pearson was in charge of the financials and the say over the signing of players we wouldn't already have made signings? You know better than that. 

 

NP: I've got my eye on a player who I really think will add to the team. Can you give me some idea of the budget available?

 

AN: Sorry, Nige. I can't divulge such information.

 

NP: Alright. It's just.. it would be good to know whether signing him will mean I won't have any more cash to strengthen other areas of the team or not.

 

AN: Listen, mate. I do the financial side of things, you stick to telling the players to keep running around and kicking the ball.

 

NP: FFS, Andy. How the fvck am I meant to know how many players I can buy if you don't tell me roughly how much each one is going to cost?

 

AN: Keep your beak out of my business.

 

NP: Fvcking hell. So, I'm just meant to take a gamble that every new player in could be the last?

 

AN: Yup. Deal with it.

 

NP: Fine. I'll trust that this is just a wind up and you won't let this next signing fvck the whole season up, then.

 

(NP gets the player he wants)

 

NP: Right, so how many more players can I get now?

 

AN: Zero.

 

NP: Very funny. How many really?

 

AN: Nadda. Capiche?

 

NP: You're serious?

 

AN: Looks like it.

 

NP: You cvnt.

[Greatness_Since_1884]

Literally going round in circles now. The owners, the board and the ones negotiating deals are more to blame than Sven. Your telling me they couldn't have got the majority of the players we signed cheaper if they hadn't thrown the money about so ridiculously? Fact is everyone blames Sven but not people still at the club who were more involved in those dealings for the mess. The club was on a spending spree to get to the Premiership, Sven just gets the whole blame for picking the players.

In trying to defend Sven you've actually made him sound worse. If what you're saying is true and he didn't care what players were earning and whether it would hamper his ability to improve other, perhaps more pressing, areas of the squad then I'd think even less of him as a football manager than I'd already do.

[Babylon]

You're coming across as an idiot. You have no idea how modern football works. Football is a business, a huge business worth a lot of money. Manager's in the modern era are not involved in financial discussions.

They are solely responsible for managing and making the club better on the football pitch. Not in the boardroom, not in contract discussions, not in negotiating favourable fees for the club. All they care about is results and team performance because that is what they are judged on by the fans, the club's board and the owners.

Sven wants a player, he says go get me the player, he doesn't care what money is spent that isn't his job, all he cares about is getting the player to improve his squad. Now he knows he has a budget so he can't write "Dear Andrew Neville, go get me Ronaldinho". However he compiles a list of targets, its then Andrew Neville's job to secure these targets and get the best deal for the club. You want to blame someone for picking shit players, blame Sven. You want to blame someone for how much they are paid look at who negotiated the deals.....Andrew Neville.

Here we go again.

You think managers aren't interested in what players earn when it can alter squad moral and performances if wages are huge for shit players and low for good ones.

The fact is if they aren't interested, they should be.

Managers can give an idea of what they think a player is worth in seconds. They do not have to get involved in the detail, it will take little time from their day. But doing so lets then keep control of matters than can and will have an impact on how the squad fit together.

[Babylon]

So Neville and the people behind the scenes have been told to do nothing whilst Pearson has come back. Pearson and Sven had two different briefs. Sven was we have the money get us to the Premiership, that failed and the club have to recover for FFP and Pearson's brief is different. He has to make sacrifices in the playing squad and move players he may necessarily want but can't keep because of their cost and he is now restricted in the transfer market. You think if Pearson was in charge of the financials and the say over the signing of players we wouldn't already have made signings? You know better than that.

You don't seem to grasp the concept of managers being able to have input on what is spent without actually being involved in all the details. It's either all or nothing.

How long do you think it takes for the manager to say "I value x player at between x and x, and they shouldn't be earning more than x players in the squad".

[ramadaone]

Can he also be our backup LB

It would be a long way round him that's for sure...

[Tielemans63]

Never ever trust anyone called Terry. This will end badly - trust me.

[ozleicester]

Sven'a phone rang all day every day with agents trying to sell him players. The club had never seen anything like it. He just couldn't say no. That's EXACLTY what happened

 

 

If only this comment had "FACT" at the end of it, we couldve put the whole saga behind us

[Grewks]

A managers is given a budget.

 

 

 

You can try to take the blame off of Sven all you like, but he gave existing players new 'improved' contracts which were not expiring, and therefore must of become aware of the situation

[Strokes]

Arse kissing can only keep you in a job for so long.

If you slip in a tongue to spice it up, you could last a bit longer.

[Dan LCFC]

Anyone who genuinely believes Sven wasn't at all responsible is simply too gullible to hold a serious discussion with. If he's overlooked it and allowed what happened to happen - that's awful management. If he's not overlooked it and allowed Neville to do whatever, that is equally awful management.

 

There's not a single decent argument that can absolve Sven of the blame. Whatever happened, we got into a mess under HIS management, and he HAS to take some responsibility at the absolute least.

[MPH]

Maybe we needed to get rid of Beckford so that we can afford Terry Robinsons' wages?

 

 

 

 

[GingerrrFox]

A Director of Football isn't needed. Pearson is the mastermind turning round our financial situation getting rid of the dross so we could really have done without taking on Robinson's salary. 

[Kitchandro]

GingerrrFox you're living in fantasy land mate.

 

It's hilarious that you would think Sven made a long list of players he wanted, having no knowledge of how much money we were willing to spend, how much these players might cost or what wages they were on - and then was happy to turn up at pre-season training with whatever players Neville had sorted out for him.

 

Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

[GingerrrFox]

GingerrrFox you're living in fantasy land mate.

It's hilarious that you would think Sven made a long list of players he wanted, having no knowledge of how much money we were willing to spend, how much these players might cost or what wages they were on - and then was happy to turn up at pre-season training with whatever players Neville had sorted out for him.

Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

That isn't what I said ever. What I said was Sven gave targets and Neville was the man responsible bringing in these targets. There were times where he was told he can't sign X because they cost too much so they had to go for a different option. Sven was always in charge of who came into the club but he was told plenty of times he couldnt sign certain players because of money. Sven never got bogged down in financials it wasn't his area. So people chucking about the accusations of Sven waving the cheque book, it didn't happen. He wanted Nicky Maynard but the deal couldn't be done partly because of financials and that's just one example. It's the same story for Pearson, now he's in charge of who comes into the club but if he's told no, he's ****ing told no. Managers don't run clubs no matter what dim fans want to believe.

[Babylon]

That isn't what I said ever. What I said was Sven gave targets and Neville was the man responsible bringing in these targets. There were times where he was told he can't sign X because they cost too much so they had to go for a different option. Sven was always in charge of who came into the club but he was told plenty of times he couldnt sign certain players because of money. Sven never got bogged down in financials it wasn't his area. So people chucking about the accusations of Sven waving the cheque book, it didn't happen. He wanted Nicky Maynard but the deal couldn't be done partly because of financials and that's just one example. It's the same story for Pearson, now he's in charge of who comes into the club but if he's told no, he's ****ing told no. Managers don't run clubs no matter what dim fans want to believe.

Good lord you just don't get it do you! And you have the nerve to call others dim.

Nobody is saying Pearson or Sven were or are fully in charge of financials and had / have carte blanche to spend what they want. Nobody believes that, nobody has said that.

Nobody thinks they sit there with a spread sheet knowing every minor detail of what the financials are.

But what they will do is have input into what a player is worth in fees and wages, he after all is supposed to be the football expert, not the man with the computer and Microsoft excel. And he is the man who deals with players who can get pissed off about others earning more etc.

There is ongoing dialogue about budgets between the two sides, about if we buy x we can't afford y. If we buy w though we can afford z. Or if we sell / get p off the books we can buy x, y and z.

To suggest a list is provided and they have no other input on that list other than names is just incomprehensible. And if Sven worked like that or was happy to then he is a fool.

If that's how it did work, then Sven and the owners are to blame. Neville will not have done anything without instruction. If Sven said he wanted Mills, and the owners said get him who he wants no matter what. Then he is just doing his job.

It should have been up to Sven to say we can get better for that money, or the owners to say you cannot spend that amount. Maybe AN could have got better deals, that's why the blame is and should be spread across all three, to to try and absolve anyone completely is nonsensical.

[GingerrrFox]

Good lord you just don't get it do you! And you have the nerve to call others dim.

Nobody is saying Pearson or Sven were or are fully in charge of financials and had / have carte blanche to spend what they want. Nobody believes that, nobody has said that.

Nobody thinks they sit there with a spread sheet knowing every minor detail of what the financials are.

But what they will do is have input into what a player is worth in fees and wages, he after all is supposed to be the football expert, not the man with the computer and Microsoft excel. And he is the man who deals with players who can get pissed off about others earning more etc.

There is ongoing dialogue about budgets between the two sides, about if we buy x we can't afford y. If we buy w though we can afford z. Or if we sell / get p off the books we can buy x, y and z.

To suggest a list is provided and they have no other input on that list other than names is just incomprehensible. And if Sven worked like that or was happy to then he is a fool.

If that's how it did work, then Sven and the owners are to blame. Neville will not have done anything without instruction. If Sven said he wanted Mills, and the owners said get him who he wants no matter what. Then he is just doing his job.

It should have been up to Sven to say we can get better for that money, or the owners to say you cannot spend that amount. Maybe AN could have got better deals, that's why the blame is and should be spread across all three, to to try and absolve anyone completely is nonsensical.

 

I've always said he has portion to the blame (countless times in this thread) but people lump it all on Sven when in actual fact the whole hierarchy in the club got themselves into the situation that they are in now. 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

The manager picks the players, but the veto,  and negotiation of fees and salaries are not down to the manager.

[Babylon]

The manager picks the players, but the veto, and negotiation of fees and salaries are not down to the manager.

Nobody has said they are, but they will have some input on the basics.

[GingerrrFox]

Nobody has said they are, but they will have some input on the basics.

You think? How do you think players like Jordan Henderson, Andy Carroll and Fernando Torres went for such ridiculous amounts of money in comparison to their ability? Value has no impact in the transfer market and Managers want players and it depends on how much the money men are willing to agree on. Nothing else.