England v Uruguay

[LCFC FOX]

Thought Henderson did a tidy job to be honest. What he and Gerrard do is never going to be spectacular, but they do a workmanlike job and leave the flash stuff to the winger, the strikers and the Number 10.

If people are expecting Gerrard or Henderson to be marauding attacking midfielders, they're mistaken.

i agree Henderson never played bad but wasn't that good. I just think Lampard and his experience could offer more and create more

[AKCJ]

Yeah, I love The Ox. 

Do you think he could play that role where I have said Wilshire or Lallana mate? Know Arsenal have played him as a central midfielder a few times. We need two workers in there with quality so we free Gerrard. 

 

Johnson is dog shit, I hope Rodgers is watching these England games and seeing what we are seeing from Johnson, must be a different view when you're his manager.

I think Ox has to come in if he's 100% fit. Can't see that being the case though.

Do you think Rodgers will play Flanagan on the right next season? I knew you were after a left back (can't remember who he was or if you'd got him).

[Legend_in_blue]

Hodgson acting the wind up merchant with regards to Suarez.

Concentrate on your own Hodgson, otherwise you'll end up with pie in your face.

[GingerrrFox]

Well I can tell you now GingerFox, Gerrard won't be dropped.

Like I have said, I can't remember a great amount from Saturday so I won't defend or praise Gerrard, sounds like he didn't get control of the game like he has all season for Liverpool (who were second in the Premier League, the most intense League in Europe) so I have no idea where you have created this myth that he hasn't got the legs anymore.

England and Liverpool are playing two different systems, Gerrard for Liverpool has two workers in front of him in Henderson and Lucas/Allen, he doesn't for England, he has Henderson by his side, clearly not working. The way Liverpool play is to have the two dog workers in front of Gerrard to free him, a bit like De Rossi and Marchisio to free Piro, it isn't rocket science mate.

This is why I have said all along we need to play a diamond in midfield, I can't see Roy doing that, far too adventurous for him, yet it is the most logical formation and system to use. You would have Gerrard free, Henderson and Wilshire/Lallana as the dogs in front of him breaking play up and winning the second ball, Sterling in the hole where he played Saturday, allows your full backs to play as wing backs and importantly Wayne Rooney plays in his best position as an out and out striker along side Daniel Sturridge.

Henderson and Wilshire/Lallana are deployed as percentage footballers, they block spaces, they close gaps, they allow their full backs to push on and be your wingers, yeah you'll say I am only saying this because of Liverpool, well it worked for us didn't it? There's currently 5 Liverpool players in the starting eleven for England so why not set up in the system where they have been playing for the last 6 months? Wilshire can do what Lucas or Joe Allen do for Liverpool, don't usually give him credit on here but Wilshire could probably do it better than either of them.

Too much negativity in our play, what we got out of playing two strikers as wingers on Saturday I will never know.

The diamond works for Liverpool for one reason. You have Luis Suarez. England do not have a striker anywhere close to him, he's a special player up there with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Ronaldo etc. Also Liverpool have no wingers - Sterling excluded but clearly he's talented enough to play behind the striker, which also suits Coutinho. You also have 2 exceptional strikers, hence the diamond. There is no point England playing 2 strikers when our strengths are pacey attacking midfielders (Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Barkley) that's why the 4-2-3-1 suits England but doesn't suit Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney.

Steven Gerrard as you have pointed out above doesn't have the legs to play in a 2 man central midfield. He needs people to do the work for him which works in the Premier League against sides that have an inferior talent level but in International football you cannot carry anyone if you want to win. You keep saying that Pirlo had all the time and space he needs because he has De Rossi and Verratti to do the work for him but it's not true. The reason that midfield 3 works for Italy is because all 3 of them are supremely intelligent footballers with the skill to match that intelligence, they don't waste energy and they don't waste possession. They are Italy's biggest threat and the team is created around them for that very reason. Everybody in that Italian team revolves around those 3 and run in behind and make space for them to play. They passed it around Gerrard and Henderson at times like they weren't even there. Steven Gerrard is no longer England's biggest threat, those days are gone and he isn't the player he was hence why he should be replaced with a player like Milner/Wilshere who have the ability to work for the team and get the ball into our young attacking players (Sterling/Ox/Barkley) who are the biggest threat England can pose teams.

Wayne Rooney is a good player but not anywhere near the level of Suarez etc he alongside Gerrard doesn't suit the system England are playing. He's not the striker to play for England over Sturridge because his game is not about running in behind the defence, stretching the field for the attacking midfielders behind him and is not a lethal finisher like Sturridge. Sturridge is a more natural goal scoring "predator". Also he's not creative enough to play as a number 10 in the system, you only have to look at Saturday where Barkley was making a run from the left into the centre, he was looking to slip a pass to his right to a man wide looking to run in behind, Rooney took the ball off him and took a stupid pop shot with his left foot. Martinez claims Barkley is an English Ballack, that is what the 4-2-3-1 needs in the middle behind the striker.

Roy won't drop either Rooney or Gerrard because he doesn't have the bottle and he set his stall out when he selected Gerrard as his captain, he is holding back the youth which on form should be given the opportunity to perform. England will fail in this World Cup, not because they don't have the players available but because they aren't being played.

[The Year Of The Fox]

It's nice to hear so many calling for Rooney to be dropped. He's proving what I've said for years. He's overrated and just isn't world class.

He's basically a waste of space. Get Lallana in there instead.

I think we'll on Thursday.

At least I've got Estonia to look forward to til 2026

It's nice to hear so many calling for Rooney to be dropped. He's proving what I've said for years. He's overrated and just isn't world class.

He's basically a waste of space. Get Lallana in there instead.

I think we'll on Thursday.

At least I've got Estonia to look forward to til 2026

It's nice to hear so many calling for Rooney to be dropped. He's proving what I've said for years. He's overrated and just isn't world class.

He's basically a waste of space. Get Lallana in there instead.

I think we'll on Thursday.

At least I've got Estonia to look forward to til 2016

[Haydos]

It's nice to hear so many calling for Rooney to be dropped. He's proving what I've said for years. He's overrated and just isn't world class.

He's basically a waste of space. Get Lallana in there instead.

I think we'll on Thursday.

At least I've got Estonia to look forward to til 2026

It's nice to hear so many calling for Rooney to be dropped. He's proving what I've said for years. He's overrated and just isn't world class.

He's basically a waste of space. Get Lallana in there instead.

I think we'll on Thursday.

At least I've got Estonia to look forward to til 2026

It's nice to hear so many calling for Rooney to be dropped. He's proving what I've said for years. He's overrated and just isn't world class.

He's basically a waste of space. Get Lallana in there instead.

I think we'll on Thursday.

At least I've got Estonia to look forward to til 2016

Sorry mate, I didn't quite catch any of that...

[MooseBreath]

I reckon rooney's gonna cause a fair few people to have egg on their faces on Thursday. Can see him bagging a brace and being an all round terrorist in a comfortable win.

[CPW22]

I'd give Rooney 45 minutes at the very least, drop Welbeck for Lalana and Henderson for Wiltshire.

[foxes_rule1978]

I reckon rooney's gonna cause a fair few people to have egg on their faces on Thursday. Can see him bagging a brace and being an all round terrorist in a comfortable win.

Would be good, he has been our best player in the qualifying campaign so just needs to be played in the hole and then get a goal. He looks uncomfortable and I think he hates it when played on the left, happened with Scholes and when he retired because of it everyone was craving for him to come out of retirement.

Just play the guy in his natural position before he decides to do what Scholes did...

[Strokes]

I reckon rooney's gonna cause a fair few people to have egg on their faces on Thursday. Can see him bagging a brace and being an all round terrorist in a comfortable win.

I really hope you are right, id happily walk around with egg on my face all day. Rooney isnt the best option to start for me.

[Fosse93]

I reckon rooney's gonna cause a fair few people to have egg on their faces on Thursday. Can see him bagging a brace and being an all round terrorist in a comfortable win.

Same here. Once he gets a goal he will look a completely different player.

[Unabomber]

Sources saying he won't be playing so I doubt that will happen.

[Ric Flair]

They were on about this on talksport this morning, there is no way that Hodgson would have made Rooney do extra training with the players who didn't play vs Italy as punishment and as a statement. This was an open training session and that is not Hodgson's style. He may not play him on Thursday but I doubt Roy would be as harsh as to chastice him like that in front of everyone. It's just the papers spying a great opportunity to stir it some more, they are desperate to do so. Everything is fairly positive elsewhere, with the bright horizon of a new dawn England so they must latch on to anything they can spin negatively to keep their eye in.

 

I have grave concerns about Rooney long term for England but I hope to god he plays on Thursday and shuts every single two bob coont up with a masterclass. He can still do it and it'd be typical of the hyperbole that follows England for this to happen.

 

Luis Suarez can bollocks as well, i'm sick of players with a past or present future in England that destroys us, Balotelli on Saturday. It's getting boring, get sent off or something and let us piss on your parade for once. We might have slack immigration and lost our identity but it's not fair you take advantage of our footballing team as well. Repay your debt to Liverpool and this country for standing by you when you racially abused Patrice Evra and thought Branislav Ivanovic was a battered sausage. It's the least you can do Luis. An own goal, a penalty and a straight red please.

[StanSP]

They were on about this on talksport this morning, there is no way that Hodgson would have made Rooney do extra training with the players who didn't play vs Italy as punishment and as a statement. This was an open training session and that is not Hodgson's style. He may not play him on Thursday but I doubt Roy would be as harsh as to chastice him like that in front of everyone. It's just the papers spying a great opportunity to stir it some more, they are desperate to do so. Everything is fairly positive elsewhere, with the bright horizon of a new dawn England so they must latch on to anything they can spin negatively to keep their eye in.

 

I have grave concerns about Rooney long term for England but I hope to god he plays on Thursday and shuts every single two bob coont up with a masterclass. He can still do it and it'd be typical of the hyperbole that follows England for this to happen.

 

Luis Suarez can bollocks as well, i'm sick of players with a past or present future in England that destroys us, Balotelli on Saturday. It's getting boring, get sent off or something and let us piss on your parade for once. We might have slack immigration and lost our identity but it's not fair you take advantage of our footballing team as well. Repay your debt to Liverpool and this country for standing by you when you racially abused Patrice Evra and thought Branislav Ivanovic was a battered sausage. It's the least you can do Luis. An own goal, a penalty and a straight red please.

 

 

I think I said this in the Italy match thread for Balotelli but for the very latter to come to fruition the tactics are simple - get him rattled to fvck. As Dan likes to say, 'get his Jimmy's rustled'.

 

Players like Balotelli/Suarez hate it when little niggly things are put upon them. A little kick from behind, a slightly late stud to the ankle. Not saying go all out to injure him badly or get yourself sent off, but it's simple tactics like this which some managers for a fact tell their players to do. Make him lash out while you would only get a booking at the most.

 

And of course don't let him play his football!

[Ric Flair]

I think I said this in the Italy match thread for Balotelli but for the very latter to come to fruition the tactics are simple - get him rattled to fvck. As Dan likes to say, 'get his Jimmy's rustled'.

 

Players like Balotelli/Suarez hate it when little niggly things are put upon them. A little kick from behind, a slightly late stud to the ankle. Not saying go all out to injure him badly or get yourself sent off, but it's simple tactics like this which some managers for a fact tell their players to do. Make him lash out while you would only get a booking at the most.

 

And of course don't let him play his football!

 

You're absolutely right Stan, we did nothing of the sort with Mario and I fear we won't with Suarez either. He's got too many buddies from Liverpool who'll keep themselves to theirselves and I look through the rest of the team and don't really see any characters who use gamesmanship, the likes of Ince, Batty, Ian Wright, Wise would have done. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but we've seen that Suarez becomes almost a hinderance rather than a danger when things don't go his way. Mourinho knew what his team needed to do at Anfield and he almost lost his head on several occasions. Could it be Rooney who does a number on him? The problem there is Rooney's reputation as having a poor temperament goes before him and he'd be just as likely to see red as Suarez. You can bet your bottom dollar that Suarez wouldn't think twice about screwing over his Liverpool counterparts and he'll use every trick in the book to do so. I would love it if we tucked the cretin up.

[StanSP]

You're absolutely right Stan, we did nothing of the sort with Mario and I fear we won't with Suarez either. He's got too many buddies from Liverpool who'll keep themselves to theirselves and I look through the rest of the team and don't really see any characters who use gamesmanship, the likes of Ince, Batty, Ian Wright, Wise would have done. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but we've seen that Suarez becomes almost a hinderance rather than a danger when things don't go his way. Mourinho knew what his team needed to do at Anfield and he almost lost his head on several occasions. Could it be Rooney who does a number on him? The problem there is Rooney's reputation as having a poor temperament goes before him and he'd be just as likely to see red as Suarez. You can bet your bottom dollar that Suarez wouldn't think twice about screwing over his Liverpool counterparts and he'll use every trick in the book to do so. I would love it if we tucked the cretin up.

 

Correct. Suarez would do to us/Liverpool mates what they wouldn't do to him.

 

He has more authority over most of them and the one person who has more authority than Suarez - Gerrard - I don't think would have the guts to place one on Suarez.

 

Right about Rooney, too. Could be someone like Glen Johnson who would do it by accident when he tries to get the ball legitimately but he's so bad he ends up getting Suarez.

 

On the other hand, I hope we don't pay too much attention to Suarez and disregard players like Cavani or their other attacking midfielders. Yeah they had a poor game vs Costa Rica but it's rare players of their quality have consistent bad days at the office.

[Ric Flair]

Correct. Suarez would do to us/Liverpool mates what they wouldn't do to him.

 

He has more authority over most of them and the one person who has more authority than Suarez - Gerrard - I don't think would have the guts to place one on Suarez.

 

Right about Rooney, too. Could be someone like Glen Johnson who would do it by accident when he tries to get the ball legitimately but he's so bad he ends up getting Suarez.

 

On the other hand, I hope we don't pay too much attention to Suarez and disregard players like Cavani or their other attacking midfielders. Yeah they had a poor game vs Costa Rica but it's rare players of their quality have consistent bad days at the office.

 

Well that's another worry, it's rare we play well two games on the spin and we supposedly did on Saturday and still lost! Frank Lampard would be more than happy to stick one on him, could you imagine it. We start him to do over Luis, he suceeds and then we take him straight off for Barkley. Hahahahaaa

[StanSP]

Well that's another worry, it's rare we play well two games on the spin and we supposedly did on Saturday and still lost! Frank Lampard would be more than happy to stick one on him, could you imagine it. We start him to do over Luis, he suceeds and then we take him straight off for Barkley. Hahahahaaa

 

I would LOVE that.

 

May just be the sheer anticipation and excitement of the upcoming match, but I don't think I'd mind too much if it happens to be that we go down to 10-men if it means Suarez sees red too.

[Bert]

Rooney covered 7 miles on Saturday. More than anyone else. He'll be starting Thursday I'm sure.

[Captain...]

Rooney will probably start if he is fit, just hopefully in his natural position, but then you play Sterling out of position.

 

I presume we will stick with 4231 as that is what we have been working with throughout the preparation for the WC.

 

So how do you fit the players in?

 

Hart, Cahil, Jags are all certain to start, full backs, could play Jones at right back, but that is a negative change that I don't think Hodgson will make, Shaw could come in at left back but that is a massive risk, so we will probably start with 2 attacking full backs but suspect defensively, so we need more cover to help out.

 

Gerrard will start, so who will partner him in midfield, Hendo played OK and probably doesn't deserve to be dropped, but bringing in Jones or Milner in the centre would give us a bit more bite and control in the middle. Uruguay seem to play a 442, so we also won't get overrun so much in midfield, but with 2 attacking wide players, we need to cover our full backs.

 

So looking at our attacking options, if we want to go all out attack, we go with Ox, Sterling, Sturridge and Rooney, but that will leave us with little protection for the midfield, if we want players to help out in the middle, we go with Lallana and/or Milner, but who to drop?

 

The Rooney conundrum is a toughie, I reckon Hodgson is hoping he isn't fit, because you can't leave out a fit Rooney, but we have players that deserve to start ahead of him in Sterling and Sturridge and playing him out of position will be a disaster. Tough call Roy this could make or break your reign.

 

Hart

Johnson Cahill Jags Baines

Gerrard Jones

Lallana Sterling Milner

Sturridge

 

Then unleash Ox and Barkley late on.

[Grandad.]

Luis Suarez is nowhere near fit, you can't go from being unable to get minutes v Costa Rica when you're losing to 100% fully fit in five days. 

 

Be very surprised if he starts and if he does then I won't be expecting much of him, don't want us to resort to kicking him and what not, but that's because he is a Liverpool player. Don't think for one minute though Gerrard or Hendo wouldn't go in strongly on him! 

 

Rooney should only play for England if we are playing two upfront, if we are playing 4-2-3-1 then he should be nowhere near the starting eleven. 

[Grandad.]

How would playing Jones or Milner who aren't natural central midfielders give us more control in the middle of the park over Jordan Henderson? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. Henderson has restarted his career in being a midfielder who has bite and can take control of games by winning the ball back and giving it simple. 

[Ric Flair]

Luis Suarez is nowhere near fit, you can't go from being unable to get minutes v Costa Rica when you're losing to 100% fully fit in five days. 

 

Be very surprised if he starts and if he does then I won't be expecting much of him, don't want us to resort to kicking him and what not, but that's because he is a Liverpool player. Don't think for one minute though Gerrard or Hendo wouldn't go in strongly on him! 

 

Rooney should only play for England if we are playing two upfront, if we are playing 4-2-3-1 then he should be nowhere near the starting eleven. 

 

It's sods law though that even if he isn't fit he'll still manage to score/win a dubious penalty/get one of our men sent off

[AKCJ]

Luis Suarez is nowhere near fit, you can't go from being unable to get minutes v Costa Rica when you're losing to 100% fully fit in five days. 

 

Be very surprised if he starts and if he does then I won't be expecting much of him, don't want us to resort to kicking him and what not, but that's because he is a Liverpool player. Don't think for one minute though Gerrard or Hendo wouldn't go in strongly on him! 

 

Rooney should only play for England if we are playing two upfront, if we are playing 4-2-3-1 then he should be nowhere near the starting eleven.

I don't think we should play 4231 full stop. Neither of Rooney or Sturridge can play on their own.

[Grandad.]

I don't think we should play 4231 full stop. Neither of Rooney or Sturridge can play on their own.

 

I agree completely, Sturridge plays better in a two and predominantly on the right of a two. Hence the diamond working so well.