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The OH Leuven Thread

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3 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Out of interest, what is OHL's "natural" position.

 

Like it or not, LCFC was a mid to lower table side in the past and our expectations were slightly ahead of that.

 

What are the "real" expectations for OHL?

They don't have real expectations. They expect TOP to buy the league and then win the first division and the CL. They don't reralise that transformation of a poor team from the grass roots level takes time and patience.

 

The supporters just need to trust in the owners or concentrate on over throwing him and returning to being a Belgain team with no hope.

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6 hours ago, Lizhang said:

He's also clearly overestimating himself, and underestimating our league. I've said this multiple times in the past. Pearson and King Power have clearly understimated our league. The fact that he not only brought Hirst in, but is still starting him week after week, one dreadful game after another is proof of that. The boy is helpless, i'm starting to pity the kid. Starting to think Pearson might be ****ing him up permanently if this keeps up. Unless he starts scoring lots and fast in Belgiums tiny league, his confidence is going to take a serious blow. "Couldn't even cut it in a near amateur league in Belgium".

You see this is exactly what people said about Vardy at the time he arrived. 

An article came out last week with Pearson talking about his time in management, you should give it a read. There's a saying in cricket where you let the batsman bat himself into form, he's a big believer of giving people opportunities to get in form and boost confidence.

 

And side point; what if KP underestimated the state of the club they were getting into? You've said they're underestimating the league etc, but what if its the situation of the club they walked into that they're trying to fix?

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2 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

 

There's a saying in cricket where you let the batsman bat himself into form, he's a big believer of giving people opportunities to get in form and boost confidence.

 

I seem to recall peter Taylor had a similar view on the Ade Akinbiyi situation...!   That ended well...!   :)

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Just now, The whole world smiles said:

Unless your trolling. Surely their supporters are in a better position than you to tell us what their expectation is.

Or maybe I read every post in the thread and extrapolate.

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43 minutes ago, FIF said:

Or maybe I read every post in the thread and extrapolate.

If that's what you're doing, you're doing a rather lousy job.

 

8 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Out of interest, what is OHL's "natural" position.

Before some nitwit starts about our history of 40 years back (which he knows nothing about), i will talk about the history of OHL, which was founded in 2002, out of the ashes of 3 local teams and was really a new start in most every way. The new team promoted to the second division basically instantly, and has been an outsider for promotion every year in the second division except two. In 2011 we got promoted to first division. We stayed there for 3 seasons, got relegated even though we weren't the weakest team (the board just stood by and watched it happen, just as it is doing now), so we relegated to second division again, but won the league right after and promoted immediately after. We then relegated immediately after that again, this time we had a great team though (incl John Bostock) and played some great football, but this time i'm quite sure the corruption in our first division was what did us in. Belgiums best football journalist was asked if it were possible that we would get relegated. His answer was "no way". But we did.
So to answer your question, i would say, after all the years we have been battling for promotion in 2nd division, and all the years we have been fighting relegation in first division, that that would be our natural position, prior to King Power's involvement.

Edited by Lizhang
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4 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

You see this is exactly what people said about Vardy at the time he arrived. 

An article came out last week with Pearson talking about his time in management, you should give it a read. There's a saying in cricket where you let the batsman bat himself into form, he's a big believer of giving people opportunities to get in form and boost confidence.

 

And side point; what if KP underestimated the state of the club they were getting into? You've said they're underestimating the league etc, but what if its the situation of the club they walked into that they're trying to fix?

Eh, the comparison with Vardy is a but funny, but i get what you are saying. There is no improvement for Hirst though. Yesterday we saw his first really good moment, it ended against the post. Unfortunately an isolated incident. This was truely the best we've seen of him all season. But this experiment with Hirst really isn't worth getting relegated for. I have talked about the difficulty of our league two months ago. It's a bad idea to try this in our league. There are only 8 teams, and the bottom 4 fight relegation in playdowns. These 8 teams face each other 4 times, so defenders already know Hirst's weaknesses, and they are taking advantage. We are 18 games into the season, (out of 28 games) of which he played most and he has scored 1 and assisted 3 and has been useless for the most part. Please tell me if you would be pleased with a trainer that keeps backing a player like that, just because it's the son of a friend.

 

It's very possible they also underestimated the club. But that would be their own fault. Litterally months went by before they closed the deal, they had all the time to figure out the books, talk to people outside the board, listen to supporters... they did none of those things. If they had, they would have known why/how the supporters were turning their backs towards the former board and CEO.

Edited by Lizhang
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4 minutes ago, Lizhang said:

Eh, the comparison with Vardy is a but funny, but i get what you are saying. There is no improvement for Hirst though. Yesterday we saw his first really good moment, it ended against the post. This was truely the best we've seen of him all season. But this experiment with Hirst really isn't worth getting relegated for.

 

It's very possible they also underestimated the club. But that would be their own fault. Litterally months went by before they closed the deal, they had all the time to figure out the books, talk to people outside the board, listen to supporters... they did none of those things. If they had, they would have known why/how the supporters were turning their backs towards the former board and CEO.

They are similar however, Vardy going from non-league (5th tier) to the 2nd tier of English and was cr4p on some occasions, hopefully th experience will do both you and Hirst well. But I agree with your last point, club always takes priority.

 

In many cases, there is only so much you can find out about a situation until you're actually in the hot seat. Fingers crossed the situation improves for you! Do enjoy keeping an eye out for your results 

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40 minutes ago, Lizhang said:

If that's what you're doing, you're doing a rather lousy job.

 

Before some nitwit starts about our history of 40 years back (which he knows nothing about), i will talk about the history of OHL, which was founded in 2002, out of the ashes of 3 local teams and was really a new start in most every way. The new team promoted to the second division basically instantly, and has been an outsider for promotion every year in the second division except two. In 2011 we got promoted to first division. We stayed there for 3 seasons, got relegated even though we weren't the weakest team (the board just stood by and watched it happen, just as it is doing now), so we relegated to second division again, but won the league right after and promoted immediately after. We then relegated immediately after that again, this time we had a great team though (incl John Bostock) and played some great football, but this time i'm quite sure the corruption in our first division was what did us in. Belgiums best football journalist was asked if it were possible that we would get relegated. His answer was "no way". But we did.
So to answer your question, i would say, after all the years we have been battling for promotion in 2nd division, and all the years we have been fighting relegation in first division, that that would be our natural position, prior to King Power's involvement.

Not everything you say is correct.

 

The second time we relegated to second division, we did not win the league, but got promoted after ending 5th and after winning against the other period winners in an after season competition.

 

Second of all, in the majority of seasons we did not end in the top 3 (only twice). An outsider for promotion? I think not.

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1 hour ago, Lizhang said:

after all the years we have been battling for promotion in 2nd division, and all the years we have been fighting relegation in first division, that that would be our natural position, prior to King Power's involvement.

 

I think I've seen this movie.  It has a good ending

 

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14 hours ago, Bonanza said:

 

That's some abysmal, shocking defending :(  I feel for you guys. Surely the board won't get rid of Pearson before the current phase is over, so let's hope a miracle happens, OHL has to go on a streak of consecutive wins right about now to have a chance for winning that play off place and the other teams have to start dropping points... I know it's difficult to be optimistic after a string of recent performances but It's not over until the fat lady sings. Fingers crossed! :fc:

 

PS: it's probably too early to tell but I think I'm starting to get a grasp on the rules of Belgian league system... ha, it makes me feel almost like a rocket scientist

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Ouch. Pearson is not good at correcting bad runs. We witnessed that many times. Depending on whether you are a realist who sees things for what they are or a dyed in the wool Pearson apologist, this is respectively either pig-headed arrogance and inflexibility or impressive resilience and consistency. 

 

The flip side I think we would all acknowledge is that with a good side, he can get teams playing like flat track bullies, which he did benefit from at times. 

 

I feel for the OHL fans. 

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3 hours ago, OHL said:

Not everything you say is correct.

 

The second time we relegated to second division, we did not win the league, but got promoted after ending 5th and after winning against the other period winners in an after season competition.

 

Second of all, in the majority of seasons we did not end in the top 3 (only twice). An outsider for promotion? I think not.

True, we didn't win the league the second time, we won the play-offs.

 

We may only have ended top 3 twice, but we were always an outsider. We were standout favorites to win the league, in the same year you just mentioned when we finished 5th. There can be more than one favorite, and more than three outsiders. Not every favorite wins it, not every outsider makes the top 3. Or are you saying Anderlecht isn't a favorite, or an outsider? :whistle:

 

And we were always a team on the rise, regardless of a few setbacks.

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2 hours ago, The_Rorab said:

I am glad we've all learnt from other media and fanbases doing it to us, that deciding we know better about another team than their fans do is pretty patronising. lol

How very dare you I’ve been a Leuven season ticket holder for the last 28 years. 

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16 hours ago, Bonanza said:

To be honest, I don't think firing Pearson is the solution. I doubt even Guardiola would get better results with this bunch of morons. Yes, he made mistakes, but he isn't the one giving away penalties and missing open chances.

 

Like I said before, the staff and the board overestimated the team and this resulted in a bad season so far. There is no doubt in my mind that King Power still has big plans for our club, so I trust they will make things right.

Fire Pearson and you’ll win the league the next year. Trust us. 

 

Have you heard about him abusing Leicester fans and bizarrely trying to throttle James McArthur?

 

Anyway best of luck for the rest of the season. 

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On 08/12/2018 at 18:18, Bonanza said:

To be honest, I don't think firing Pearson is the solution. I doubt even Guardiola would get better results with this bunch of morons. Yes, he made mistakes, but he isn't the one giving away penalties and missing open chances.

 

Like I said before, the staff and the board overestimated the team and this resulted in a bad season so far. There is no doubt in my mind that King Power still has big plans for our club, so I trust they will make things right.

What an incredibly naïve thing to say. Who is selecting those players that have been missing in front of open goal and giving away the penalties and keeps them on the pitch week after week? Who decided to bring Hirst in, son of his pal, if not Pearson? This team isn't losing merely based on individual errors. This team is losing because it is NOT A TEAM. Who's job is that, it not the manager's? It took him over 10 matches, to get his head out of his ass, and play with Maertens and Libert, instead of Kerrouche and Persoons, but that's not his fault????? Please tell me who's fault it is then? We've seen immediate results due to that change, with 3 victories out of 4 or 5 matches, but it just wasn't enough because the same needed to happen in attack and defense. Who decided to play Hirst on the wing, for the first 6 matches? Was i dreaming, or wasn't Pearson the manager back then? Who keeps insisting on playing Kehli on the wing, while he lacks speed and is a CAM by nature? Who was the guy changing up to 8 players week over week, while keeping the ones that needed to be replaced? Acting as if we're still playing prep matches. We are trailing 7 points behind LOMMEL,  a team with no financial power whatsoever, with players coming from their youth ranks and amateur divisions. And you seriously want others to believe that a competent manager wouldn't do a lot better with the players present? Seems to me, that Pearson has effectively crippled his own team to the point that you think it's all the players' fault. The fact that we've played 18 matches without a gameplan, that the players still don't know what is being asked of them, what to expect of teammates. How telling, that last weekend, the junior of the bunch, who is helping out in defense (while he's a midfielder), feels obliged to leave his position, go into the attack, to dribble all the way into the opposing box, because his teammates are just standing still. You think those other players never learnt the basics of football? Movement? Or could it be that they still don't know what to do, have lost all faith in what the manager is asking them to do, still don't know how to link up with teammates, after 18 games (not even including last season for those who were here then).

Today on Sporza (the Belgan equivalent of BBC Sports): https://sporza.be/nl/2018/12/10/1b-karel-fraeye/

 

" OHL speelt zelden als een team" > OHL rarely plays as a team

 

" Nochtans is de kern van de Leuvenaars echt wel sterk genoeg om mee te dingen naar promotie, wat ook het vooropgestelde doel was." > And yet the selection of Leuven really is strong enough to play for promotion, which was the goal"

 

" de ploeg mist aanvallend en verdedigend automatismen, speelt zelden als één team en straalt een tekort aan gedrevenheid en vertrouwen uit. " > The team lacks attacking and defensive automatisms, rarely plays as a team, and lacks drive and confidence.

 

And there is more in that article. And no, i didn't write it.

 

King Power overestimated Pearson and he in turn keeps underestimating our league. The fact that he keeps playing Hirst instead of Casagolda or Hendriks, hell, even Kostovski, is proof of that.

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1 hour ago, Lizhang said:

What an incredibly naïve thing to say. Who is selecting those players that have been missing in front of open goal and giving away the penalties and keeps them on the pitch week after week? Who decided to bring Hirst in, son of his pal, if not Pearson? This team isn't losing merely based on individual errors. This team is losing because it is NOT A TEAM. Who's job is that, it not the manager's? It took him over 10 matches, to get his head out of his ass, and play with Maertens and Libert, instead of Kerrouche and Persoons, but that's not his fault????? Please tell me who's fault it is then? We've seen immediate results due to that change, with 3 victories out of 4 or 5 matches, but it just wasn't enough because the same needed to happen in attack and defense. Who decided to play Hirst on the wing, for the first 6 matches? Was i dreaming, or wasn't Pearson the manager back then? Who keeps insisting on playing Kehli on the wing, while he lacks speed and is a CAM by nature? Who was the guy changing up to 8 players week over week, while keeping the ones that needed to be replaced? Acting as if we're still playing prep matches. We are trailing 7 points behind LOMMEL,  a team with no financial power whatsoever, with players coming from their youth ranks and amateur divisions. And you seriously want others to believe that a competent manager wouldn't do a lot better with the players present? Seems to me, that Pearson has effectively crippled his own team to the point that you think it's all the players' fault. The fact that we've played 18 matches without a gameplan, that the players still don't know what is being asked of them, what to expect of teammates. How telling, that last weekend, the junior of the bunch, who is helping out in defense (while he's a midfielder), feels obliged to leave his position, go into the attack, to dribble all the way into the opposing box, because his teammates are just standing still. You think those other players never learnt the basics of football? Movement? Or could it be that they still don't know what to do, have lost all faith in what the manager is asking them to do, still don't know how to link up with teammates, after 18 games (not even including last season for those who were here then).

Today on Sporza (the Belgan equivalent of BBC Sports): https://sporza.be/nl/2018/12/10/1b-karel-fraeye/

 

" OHL speelt zelden als een team" > OHL rarely plays as a team

 

" Nochtans is de kern van de Leuvenaars echt wel sterk genoeg om mee te dingen naar promotie, wat ook het vooropgestelde doel was." > And yet the selection of Leuven really is strong enough to play for promotion, which was the goal"

 

" de ploeg mist aanvallend en verdedigend automatismen, speelt zelden als één team en straalt een tekort aan gedrevenheid en vertrouwen uit. " > The team lacks attacking and defensive automatisms, rarely plays as a team, and lacks drive and confidence.

 

And there is more in that article. And no, i didn't write it.

 

King Power overestimated Pearson and he in turn keeps underestimating our league. The fact that he keeps playing Hirst instead of Casagolda or Hendriks, hell, even Kostovski, is proof of that.

Let's agree to disagree, Lizhang.

 

No, Pearson isn't the best manager in the world, but this team just isn't good enough. All I'm saying is that we should give him and King Power the opportunity to fix things.

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10 hours ago, Bonanza said:

Let's agree to disagree, Lizhang.

 

No, Pearson isn't the best manager in the world, but this team just isn't good enough. All I'm saying is that we should give him and King Power the opportunity to fix things.

I'm sorry i will not agree to disagree, because i'm 100% convinced that you are not thinking clearly. I believe he's had plenty of chances to fix things, and he hasn't. I would even go further and say he hasn't even tried to fix things. Him benching Maertens and Tshimanga last week, was the final straw as far as i'm concerned, because it may have been our last chance to close the gap with 4th spot (and safety). No, he doesn't deserve any more chances to fix this. How long would you be willing to wait? Untill we're relegated? There are only 10 matches left to turn things around (and by that, i mean escape the play-downs), and if people might have thought i was being overly dramatic saying that he was leading us straight to the amateur division two months ago, things are now looking a lot more dire, and getting relegated isn't some wild speculation anymore. We're 3 points from last place, with points getting cut in half in the play-downs, that means we're only one one draw away of going down. But sure, you sit back and watch it happen.

 

Your conclusion that it must be the players that are at fault, i'm sorry, not only do i disagree based on what i see on the pitch, but you have already been proven wrong on that account. An entire season actually. Compared to last year (when we finished 2nd overall) only one core player has left the team. Storm. Unless you are going to argue, that Storm is the sole reason for us dropping from 2nd to 6th place, then i don't know what you are trying to argue here. To replace Storm, we got Kapustka. I'm guessing he's at least as good as Storm is. The other players from last year that got some game time are ALL STILL HERE. Gillekens, Kawin, Moore, Schuermans, Tshimanga, Daeseleire, Libert, Maertens, Hubert, Persoons, Kehli, Dequevy, Kostovski, Casagolda, Aguemon, Mertens, Sowah, Gorius... Your entire defense and centre midfield, as well as your attack has remained, including your keepers. Just one guy left and Aguemon has been injured. But we got Kapustka, Duplus, Hendriks, Touba, Kerrouche, Myny, Van Landschoot... on top of our squad from last year. If anything, he now has MORE quality to work with. So your entire premise of "it's the players that lack the quality" just goes out the window. He has the quality, he just has to put the best team on the pitch, and make sure he can motivate those guys, and get them to link up. He has failed on all three accounts. He isn't playing his best players, he isn't motivating them, and he sure as **** hasn't been able to make them tick.

 

But please enlighten me how we were able to finish 2nd last year, with the exact same players - or better "bunch of morons", as you put it - if those very same players, weren't good enough. It's simple, you can't. Because it's not the players. It's the team lacking structure, lacking a gameplan, there are no offensive nor defensive habits or patterns to fall back and rely on, there is no confidence, there is no motivation, no drive, no passion. The best players are being benched (or worse) for months, the worst players, get to play each and every game. You can't get away with shit like that. Your players will not trust you (as a coach) anymore, they won't believe (in) you. I'm sorry man... it's all on Pearson. And if KP doesn't act quickly, they are to be blamed as well. So please, try to argue with some substance because your arguments are not holding any water.

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8 hours ago, Lizhang said:

I'm sorry i will not agree to disagree, because i'm 100% convinced that you are not thinking clearly. I believe he's had plenty of chances to fix things, and he hasn't. I would even go further and say he hasn't even tried to fix things. Him benching Maertens and Tshimanga last week, was the final straw as far as i'm concerned, because it may have been our last chance to close the gap with 4th spot (and safety). No, he doesn't deserve any more chances to fix this. How long would you be willing to wait? Untill we're relegated? There are only 10 matches left to turn things around (and by that, i mean escape the play-downs), and if people might have thought i was being overly dramatic saying that he was leading us straight to the amateur division two months ago, things are now looking a lot more dire, and getting relegated isn't some wild speculation anymore. We're 3 points from last place, with points getting cut in half in the play-downs, that means we're only one one draw away of going down. But sure, you sit back and watch it happen.

 

Your conclusion that it must be the players that are at fault, i'm sorry, not only do i disagree based on what i see on the pitch, but you have already been proven wrong on that account. An entire season actually. Compared to last year (when we finished 2nd overall) only one core player has left the team. Storm. Unless you are going to argue, that Storm is the sole reason for us dropping from 2nd to 6th place, then i don't know what you are trying to argue here. To replace Storm, we got Kapustka. I'm guessing he's at least as good as Storm is. The other players from last year that got some game time are ALL STILL HERE. Gillekens, Kawin, Moore, Schuermans, Tshimanga, Daeseleire, Libert, Maertens, Hubert, Persoons, Kehli, Dequevy, Kostovski, Casagolda, Aguemon, Mertens, Sowah, Gorius... Your entire defense and centre midfield, as well as your attack has remained, including your keepers. Just one guy left and Aguemon has been injured. But we got Kapustka, Duplus, Hendriks, Touba, Kerrouche, Myny, Van Landschoot... on top of our squad from last year. If anything, he now has MORE quality to work with. So your entire premise of "it's the players that lack the quality" just goes out the window. He has the quality, he just has to put the best team on the pitch, and make sure he can motivate those guys, and get them to link up. He has failed on all three accounts. He isn't playing his best players, he isn't motivating them, and he sure as **** hasn't been able to make them tick.

 

But please enlighten me how we were able to finish 2nd last year, with the exact same players - or better "bunch of morons", as you put it - if those very same players, weren't good enough. It's simple, you can't. Because it's not the players. It's the team lacking structure, lacking a gameplan, there are no offensive nor defensive habits or patterns to fall back and rely on, there is no confidence, there is no motivation, no drive, no passion. The best players are being benched (or worse) for months, the worst players, get to play each and every game. You can't get away with shit like that. Your players will not trust you (as a coach) anymore, they won't believe (in) you. I'm sorry man... it's all on Pearson. And if KP doesn't act quickly, they are to be blamed as well. So please, try to argue with some substance because your arguments are not holding any water.

You're an argumentative bugger aren't you!

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